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The Junk Science of Climate Change


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#1 dennislmay

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:49 PM

http://www.guardian....ciers-mountains

The bias was particularly strong in Asia, said Wahr: "There extrapolation is really tough as only a handful of lower-altitude glaciers are monitored and there are thousands there very high up."

_____

BS from day one - they have never been even remotely close to having the data to justify their claims. Follow the politics and the money and the mystery of this junk science is solved.

Even this article fails to mention that 1/4 of the sea level rise is due to pumping water from underground sources. Any claim of rising sea levels due to water warming suffers from insufficient data.

Dennis May

#2 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:05 PM

Dennis,

There are an incredibly large number of groups, shadow and out in the open, which receive money from George Soros involved in perpetrating the man-made global warming idea, but he's not the only one doing this, of course.

The name of the game is a heist the size of which the world has never seen. If you're on the inside, you stand to make more gobs of money than if you struck oil. There are too many signs not to see the pattern.

For instance, there is an organization called The Chicago Climate Exchange that was set up by a lot of these insiders, including President Obama. It is tailor made to broker Cap and Trade credits if only they can get the damn law passed. (Thank God they never have.) Imagine getting a percentage commission off of transactions involving, nominally, every business on the entire planet. All countries.

And the transaction? Registered allotments of puffs of air. That's what it boils down to. They use a cute name for it in the current incarnation: Chicago Climate Exchange Offsets Registry Program. Imagine if this program got a monopoly on administrating a legal mandate that the government could implement using government regulators, the courts and law enforcement. Basically hired guns.

In other words, each company would have a certain amount of puffs of air it could produce and only that amount. But it could buy more from folks who have allotments for puffs of air they don't use. In other words, in the end, giant corporations would be sending money for these allowed puffs of air they need (just to be able to stay in business) to companies the world over to buy their allotments. And CCX would collect a commission on every penny.

The amount of money this commission fee would generate is staggering. Going into the hundreds of trillions of dollars by today's value.

(I'm indebted to Glenn Beck for presenting this idea and the proof behind it.)

The only way they can sell the general idea to the public to get the law passed is by backing up something that scares the hell our of everyone with science. Enter the junk science we got from Al Gore (a big insider in this scam).

And the scientists who provide the data? They know what side their bread is buttered on. I can't think of a single class of individuals more swayed by the carrot and the stick technique than them (although i do admit some of the poor bastards don't need swaying, they actually believe that crap).

Normally, to put over a gigantic scam, you have to use all kinds of persuasion gimmicks. For example, Nancy Duarte was the person behind crafting Al Gore's approach in "An Inconvenient Truth." She based it on the Hero's Journey, a sequence-of-events model identified by a mythology scholar named Joseph Campbell and used extensively in Hollywood (the most well-known example discussed most often in our culture is Star Wars). This story model is also used in branding, forming cults, the entire game industry, and all kinds of things because it works. But that was for the public.

(There's a lot more I've uncovered in the persuasion/propaganda techniques department as I went about looking into this topic, but that will have to be for another day--that is, if I ever get inspired to write about this stuff again. The one time I did, back when I was trying to look at it for the first time, all hell broke out because I refused to bash without first looking. I refused to be a part of a scapegoating collective. Lots and lots of yelling essentially over nothing. So I've lost my appetite for wading into that swamp. Man-made global warming enemies are just as irrational, tribal and nasty as the pro side.)

For scientists (as a class, with some exceptions, though), I've learned that all you need to say--if you have the power--is "here's some money" and "you can't have any money" and they sell their souls. No further persuasion techniques are necessary. Gross crude unsophisticated carrot-and-stick. Not even a covert or subliminal nudge. They will outfit a bloody dictator or gigantic con man with all the data and inventions these monsters need without blinking an eye if they get the right funding.

Thank goodness the public is wiser than the scientist class.

Michael

Know thyself...


#3 dennislmay

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:08 PM

For scientists (as a class, with some exceptions, though), I've learned that all you need to say--if you have the power--is "here's some money" and "you can't have any money" and they sell their souls.

This is what passed for a top news story in International Physics for this week:

http://physicsworld....icle/news/48551

Theoretical-physics hub opens in South America

"With a budget of about $1m per year, the institute also will have an active visitors' programme. "We very much hope that this will be only the beginning of a great new project that will increase the scientific level of the region and that will play a major role in international scientific collaboration," Quevedo told physicsworld.com. "I have the highest hopes [for this institute]." "

If a million dollars a year for a hub serving an entire continent deserves a big international announcement imagine the ability of hundreds of trillions of dollars in potiential windfall - 8 orders of magnitude more cash - to influence scientists to see thing the way politicians want it to be seen. Yes scientists can be bought off for cheap and as you said you can search and find true believers who will say whatever you want - just for the price of giving them a microphone.

A million to a million and a quarter dollars a year in 1985-87 would buy you one full time Ph-D researcher plus 1-2 time helpers [or vise-versa] writing hydro-codes for modeling elastic-plastic deformation of materials. Codes similar to what is required in climate modeling. Science now days is starved for cash and has been since the early 90's. Cherry picking yes men can buy you any result you want to hear.

Dennis

#4 George H. Smith

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:22 AM

More on the article linked by Dennis.....

http://www.guardian....ciers-mountains


The Himalayas and nearby peaks have lost no ice in past 10 years, study shows

The world's greatest snow-capped peaks, which run in a chain from the Himalayas to Tian Shan on the border of China and Kyrgyzstan, have lost no ice over the last decade, new research shows.

The discovery has stunned scientists, who had believed that around 50bn tonnes of meltwater were being shed each year and not being replaced by new snowfall.

The study is the first to survey all the world's icecaps and glaciers and was made possible by the use of satellite data. Overall, the contribution of melting ice outside the two largest caps – Greenland and Antarctica – is much less than previously estimated, with the lack of ice loss in the Himalayas and the other high peaks of Asia responsible for most of the discrepancy.

Bristol University glaciologist Prof Jonathan Bamber, who was not part of the research team, said: "The very unexpected result was the negligible mass loss from high mountain Asia, which is not significantly different from zero."

The melting of Himalayan glaciers caused controversy in 2009 when a report from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change mistakenly stated that they would disappear by 2035, instead of 2350. However, the scientist who led the new work is clear that while greater uncertainty has been discovered in Asia's highest mountains, the melting of ice caps and glaciers around the world remains a serious concern....


The article goes on to argue that the incorrect prediction -- which was off by 500 billion tons (effectively 100 percent) -- does not cast any doubt on the global warming theory. We seem to be dealing with a theory that is immune to empirical falsification.

Ghs

#5 Peter Taylor

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:38 AM

Michael Stuart Kelly wrote:
For scientists (as a class, with some exceptions, though), I've learned that all you need to say--if you have the power--is "here's some money" and "you can't have any money" and they sell their souls . . . Thank goodness the public is wiser than the scientist class.
end quote
I was going to respond to the “Caged Animals: Civilization and Human Nature‏” thread but Studiodekadent who began the thread did not give me his permission. So here is my thinking about this issue in general. There are three major controversies in Science right now. The first two are “Deterministic Quantum Mechanics vs. In-deterministic Quantum Mechanics,” and “Man made global warming vs. No man made global warming.”


I will direct you to the “Cosmology” thread for the core of the QM controversy.

I will explain the NOT MAN MADE global warming theory briefly as: Solar radiation produces “a usual temperature range,” and has been fairly constant for millennia. It is the stabilizing affect that keeps the earth’s temperatures similar whether we are in an ice age or a warming age. Cosmic rays striking the earth and descending to the lower atmosphere aid in water molecule formation which increases cloud formation. Cloud formation cools the earth. So the more cosmic rays striking the earth the cooler all the planets, including the earth, become.

We are shielded from cosmic rays by the sun. The cosmic ray count that hits the earth is lessened when the sun is more active so we then have fewer clouds and the earth warms.

Now on to the third controversy.
Studiodekadent wrote:
This thread is aimed at having a productive discussion on the issue of Meta-Anthropology, or the philosophy of human nature.
end quote

That discussion would not be without controversy because we are either discussing one or two groups of *humans.*

From Wikipedia:
"A subspecies (race) is a distinct evolutionary lineage within a species. This definition requires that a subspecies be genetically differentiated due to barriers to genetic exchange that have persisted for long periods of time; that is, the subspecies must have historical continuity in addition to current genetic differentiation."
end quote

Today, there are two schools of thought about this issue and both claim to be more scientific. In my opinion, the more scientific school of thought causes outrage from the other school of thought. It means not getting grants, just like the Deterministic Quantum Mechanics proponents and the anti man-made global warming scientists, who get less financing for their work. A dissenting scientist risks being ignored or swept under the rug.

The first, majority theory PUBLICALLY held by about seventy percent of scientists with an opinion is:
All humans are classified as belonging to the species Homo sapiens AND sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.

The other scientific theory is:
All humans are classified as belonging to the species Homo sapiens and SOME humans belong to the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.

The difference is subtle and usually not emphasized nor is an explanation provided when either school of thought is promoted.

Why the controversy? The two species are quite similar genetically. We are all humans. There is more of a gene spread within Black Africa than between Black Africa, the descendents of black Africans and Not Black humanity.

If you study humans in Black Africa you see Homo Sapiens. You see tribalism, an average IQ of 70, even when measured by psychologists hoping for a higher number, some positive civilizing influence from Western culture (The Flynn Affect,) little if any scientific advancement over the millennia, and little hope for the millennia to come. Things are not going to change there, unless their gene pool is changed.

If we are discussing the nature of man, that particular geographic area, which used to be called the Dark Continent, can be scientifically, and conceptually set aside as part of a Hobbesian, brutish existence zone, inhabited by the first humans, who are still alive and thriving at a third or forth world level.

Of course, Romantic Primitivism can be seen in Africa and in descendents of black Africans. And there are exceptions to these generalized statements. The two species theory observes continent wide trends. The truth is the scientific view, even if it is not expressed publicly. It is the view of evolutionary psychologists and biologists. It is not a racist slant of the facts. The truth is what it is.

Anthropologists have scientifically studied THE REST of humanity, or Homo Sapiens Sapiens for a hundred years, and they still do not agree on our basic nature. We are volitional. We act correctly in social settings, not initiating force, and we do NOT act correctly when dealing with others.

What I can unequivocally state is that PHILOSOPHY MATTERS, BECAUSE OF OUR CONTRARY NATURE. Freedom brings more happiness and prosperity. Free civilization allows us to conjecture and advance.
Peter Taylor
Semper cogitans fidele,
Independent Objectivist,
Peter Taylor

#6 Brant Gaede

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:45 AM

More on the article linked by Dennis.....

http://www.guardian....ciers-mountains



The Himalayas and nearby peaks have lost no ice in past 10 years, study shows

The world's greatest snow-capped peaks, which run in a chain from the Himalayas to Tian Shan on the border of China and Kyrgyzstan, have lost no ice over the last decade, new research shows.

The discovery has stunned scientists, who had believed that around 50bn tonnes of meltwater were being shed each year and not being replaced by new snowfall.

The study is the first to survey all the world's icecaps and glaciers and was made possible by the use of satellite data. Overall, the contribution of melting ice outside the two largest caps – Greenland and Antarctica – is much less than previously estimated, with the lack of ice loss in the Himalayas and the other high peaks of Asia responsible for most of the discrepancy.

Bristol University glaciologist Prof Jonathan Bamber, who was not part of the research team, said: "The very unexpected result was the negligible mass loss from high mountain Asia, which is not significantly different from zero."

The melting of Himalayan glaciers caused controversy in 2009 when a report from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change mistakenly stated that they would disappear by 2035, instead of 2350. However, the scientist who led the new work is clear that while greater uncertainty has been discovered in Asia's highest mountains, the melting of ice caps and glaciers around the world remains a serious concern....


The article goes on to argue that the incorrect prediction -- which was off by 500 billion tons (effectively 100 percent) -- does not cast any doubt on the global warming theory. We seem to be dealing with a theory that is immune to empirical falsification.

Ghs

The theory--AGW--isn't immune. It's kaput. Its theorists are--both immune and kaput. AGW is only alive and viable in the hands of stupid, pandering politicians. It's recycling that won't let go. Never mind it only ever worked for boy scouts collecting old newspapers and only because mom or dad drove them around.

--Brant

Rational Individualist, Rational self-interest, Individual Rights--limited government libertarian heavily influenced by Objectivism


#7 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:03 PM

We seem to be dealing with a theory that is immune to empirical falsification. Ghs

Quite correct, you can go back and look at the chemical and ice age scare crowd in the 70's, nuclear scare crowd in the early 80's, Ozone Hole scrare crowd in the mid and late 80's, and the global warming/climate change crowd of today. All were immune to empirical falsification because they are collectivist politically driven movements - largely funded by foreign communist groups and the intellience agencies of communist nation states. I was first suspicious of the various "greenies" in high school when it was obvious BS about the effects of various chemicals. In college it was obvious the anti-nuclear crowd was immune to basic science. What hit me hardest was the numerous and obvious frauds the Ozone Hole scare crowd was pushing on the 24/7 cable news cycle. Some of the claims were so laughable and against 8th grade level science it amazed me the media would allow it on the air - until you realize they are in on it. Once jaded by the Ozone Hole fraud and the doom that never happened the Climate Change fraud was very easy to spot and track. It just so happened I had worked in computer modeling similar to but in some ways more complex than climate modeling so I knew they were full of shit from day one.

Dennis

#8 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:48 PM

Michael Stuart Kelly wrote:
For scientists (as a class, with some exceptions, though), I've learned that all you need to say--if you have the power--is "here's some money" and "you can't have any money" and they sell their souls . . . Thank goodness the public is wiser than the scientist class.
end quote
I was going to respond to the “Caged Animals: Civilization and Human Nature‏” thread but Studiodekadent who began the thread did not give me his permission. So here is my thinking about this issue in general. There are three major controversies in Science right now. The first two are “Deterministic Quantum Mechanics vs. In-deterministic Quantum Mechanics,” and “Man made global warming vs. No man made global warming.”

I will direct you to the “Cosmology” thread for the core of the QM controversy.

I will explain the NOT MAN MADE global warming theory briefly as: Solar radiation produces “a usual temperature range,” and has been fairly constant for millennia. It is the stabilizing affect that keeps the earth’s temperatures similar whether we are in an ice age or a warming age. Cosmic rays striking the earth and descending to the lower atmosphere aid in water molecule formation which increases cloud formation. Cloud formation cools the earth. So the more cosmic rays striking the earth the cooler all the planets, including the earth, become.

We are shielded from cosmic rays by the sun. The cosmic ray count that hits the earth is lessened when the sun is more active so we then have fewer clouds and the earth warms.

Now on to the third controversy.
Studiodekadent wrote:
This thread is aimed at having a productive discussion on the issue of Meta-Anthropology, or the philosophy of human nature.
end quote

That discussion would not be without controversy because we are either discussing one or two groups of *humans.*

From Wikipedia:
"A subspecies (race) is a distinct evolutionary lineage within a species. This definition requires that a subspecies be genetically differentiated due to barriers to genetic exchange that have persisted for long periods of time; that is, the subspecies must have historical continuity in addition to current genetic differentiation."
end quote

Today, there are two schools of thought about this issue and both claim to be more scientific. In my opinion, the more scientific school of thought causes outrage from the other school of thought. It means not getting grants, just like the Deterministic Quantum Mechanics proponents and the anti man-made global warming scientists, who get less financing for their work. A dissenting scientist risks being ignored or swept under the rug.

The first, majority theory PUBLICALLY held by about seventy percent of scientists with an opinion is:
All humans are classified as belonging to the species Homo sapiens AND sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.

The other scientific theory is:
All humans are classified as belonging to the species Homo sapiens and SOME humans belong to the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.

The difference is subtle and usually not emphasized nor is an explanation provided when either school of thought is promoted.

Why the controversy? The two species are quite similar genetically. We are all humans. There is more of a gene spread within Black Africa than between Black Africa, the descendents of black Africans and Not Black humanity.

If you study humans in Black Africa you see Homo Sapiens. You see tribalism, an average IQ of 70, even when measured by psychologists hoping for a higher number, some positive civilizing influence from Western culture (The Flynn Affect,) little if any scientific advancement over the millennia, and little hope for the millennia to come. Things are not going to change there, unless their gene pool is changed.

If we are discussing the nature of man, that particular geographic area, which used to be called the Dark Continent, can be scientifically, and conceptually set aside as part of a Hobbesian, brutish existence zone, inhabited by the first humans, who are still alive and thriving at a third or forth world level.

Of course, Romantic Primitivism can be seen in Africa and in descendents of black Africans. And there are exceptions to these generalized statements. The two species theory observes continent wide trends. The truth is the scientific view, even if it is not expressed publicly. It is the view of evolutionary psychologists and biologists. It is not a racist slant of the facts. The truth is what it is.

Anthropologists have scientifically studied THE REST of humanity, or Homo Sapiens Sapiens for a hundred years, and they still do not agree on our basic nature. We are volitional. We act correctly in social settings, not initiating force, and we do NOT act correctly when dealing with others.

What I can unequivocally state is that PHILOSOPHY MATTERS, BECAUSE OF OUR CONTRARY NATURE. Freedom brings more happiness and prosperity. Free civilization allows us to conjecture and advance.
Peter Taylor

It is clear that when you have different groups of closely related peoples you will have different IQs - Chinese IQ is 108, the Ashk Jewish IQ is ~119, some African groups [67-71] , and blacks in the USA 87. Europeans are known to have a wide curve of high and low - some Asians a tighter and higher average distribution, other Asians a different story.

Many factors can be discussed - age, environment, health, nutrition, exposure to testing and education, gender and social differences and how testing treats that, and on and on. Regardless of the political 3rd rail - genetics is a factor. It has to be if you have even the faintest understanding of genetics.

http://en.wikipedia....sh_intelligence
"...the unique conditions under which Ashkenazi Jews lived in medieval Europe selected for high verbal and mathematical intelligence but not spatial intelligence."

I observed a severe lack of spatial and visual reasoning among many people I knew in physics - which I believe goes a long ways towards explaining the dead end physics finds itself in today. The subject has become self selecting towards non-spatial reasoning intelligence.

Individual intelligence varies over time - as I discussed before I am personally aware of intelligence spikes. It reminds me of the CPU usage display you might see on your computer where you putt along most of the time then suddenly you might get extreme usage. I don't believe this is captured in IQ testing and I'm not sure how widespread this phenomenon is.

In any case our politically correct society is not ready to discuss such issues. We can't even agree on grade school math economics so the society is not about ready to discuss quantum theory or intelligence. The 100 Trillion dollar payday for collectivists will continue the disinformation campaign for Climate Change going as long as they can. I suspect larger events will divert interest from Climate Change and they will go about their collectivist goals by other means - economic collapse and world war being the time honored favorites.

Dennis

#9 Ninth Doctor

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:12 PM

What hit me hardest was the numerous and obvious frauds the Ozone Hole scare crowd was pushing on the 24/7 cable news cycle. Some of the claims were so laughable and against 8th grade level science it amazed me the media would allow it on the air - until you realize they are in on it. Once jaded by the Ozone Hole fraud and the doom that never happened the Climate Change fraud was very easy to spot and track.

Don't forget that Ozone is one of those causes about which the enviromentalists now claim victory. They got their legislation through, and now the problem has gone away. Never mind that there never was a problem.
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#10 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:32 PM

Here's where I honestly believe the man-made global warming theory came from--in aesthetic political terms.

There is an interview with Joseph Campbell I saw a while back, I believe it was with Bill Moyers, where he was asked what the future of myth is for mankind, and if there will be any new ones as fundamental and influential as the Hero's Journey.

He responded that he believes new ones will come into being, but they will, by necessity, involve the earth as a major player since the earth gave rise to mankind. Life literally came into being from the very stuff of the earth.

I need to check dates, but I believe around the time of that interview there started to occur a huge increase in Wicca stuff (and similar earth-worship movements)--and the man-made global warming myth started getting serious.

I don't believe the birth of these movements in their present incarnation were a direct result of what Campbell said, but I do believe their sudden growth was--that shadow people with deep pockets and lots of covert influence heard his message loud and clear back then and poured their efforts and resources into fostering these earth movements.

Hell, now you even have manifestations like Avatar with the director, James Cameron, strutting about as if he's a modern-day messiah. His theme? The planet is The Source. A better myth could not be created according to Campbell's recipe. (It was funny, though, seeing Cameron saying he wanted to shoot people, ones he claims who have their heads up their asses, who didn't believe in man-made global warming. Google it and see for yourself if you missed it.)

The left and other dictators have always known the power of myth in human political affairs. The pro-individualist and rational side not so much.

At least Ayn Rand understood. I believe providing an alternative to Christian mythology was one of her purposes in writing Atlas Shrugged and one of the major components of its current influence. The similarities between John Galt and Jesus Christ are just too many to ignore.

If we want to get rid of the man-made global warming silliness, it will not happen solely by debunking it. We need a new earth myth to replace the one Al Gore came up with and its progeny like Avatar.

It looks like the Wicca stuff never did take off big-time for political purposes. Probably too ancient with too much noise in its mythic purity to resuscitate as a major player. (Some Vampire culture has taken off with the young, though. I believe it is loosely related to the Wicca fostering. Incidentally, James Cameron was the producer of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. That connection of dots might be forcing things, but I don't think so. I believe Cameron knows exactly what he is doing and why.)

Science may prove stuff, but myths sell and move hearts and minds to action. That's just the way the human race is.

We should never forget that myths don't need to be accurate and factual to be persuasive. But myths--fundamental level myths--allied to facts are the best of all.

This reminds me of the old tale about Truth as a beautiful woman. She wandered about a village naked and was laughed at, scorned, ignored and mocked. But once she dressed herself in the garment of Story, she became welcome--her company sought and treasured--in every home in the village.

I might try to find that interview later and put it up. I believe it's on YouTube.

Michael

Know thyself...


#11 william.scherk

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:40 PM

All humans are classified as belonging to the species Homo sapiens and SOME humans belong to the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.

[ ... ]

If you study humans in Black Africa you see Homo Sapiens. You see tribalism, an average IQ of 70, even when measured by psychologists hoping for a higher number, some positive civilizing influence from Western culture (The Flynn Affect,) little if any scientific advancement over the millennia, and little hope for the millennia to come. Things are not going to change there, unless their gene pool is changed.

If we are discussing the nature of man, that particular geographic area, which used to be called the Dark Continent, can be scientifically, and conceptually set aside as part of a Hobbesian, brutish existence zone, inhabited by the first humans, who are still alive and thriving at a third or forth world level.

It is clear that when you have different groups of closely related peoples you will have different IQs - Chinese IQ is 108, the Ashk Jewish IQ is ~119, some African groups [67-71] , and blacks in the USA 87. Europeans are known to have a wide curve of high and low - some Asians a tighter and higher average distribution, other Asians a different story.

I irks me that the default Objectivish position on Climate Change or Anthropogenic Global Warming is scoffing and superior. I have yet to have had a proper wrangle with anyone on this list. To my eyes the anti-AGWA opinions are bought wholesale and distributed to the Objectivish as badges, shibboleths. It is disturbing that a majority of Republicans oppose AGWA explanations and a majority of Democrats embrace them -- another set of politicized shibboleths.

To veer off the well-trod road of anti-AGWA slogans so quickly, to veer off into flat-out racist Superiour Intelligence/Dark Continent Doomed Subspecies world ... this disturbs me even more. Peter Taylor has shown quite a gift for nationalizing insults (with Angela); here he runs off into Two Species Wonderland, and it ain't pretty.

Dennis, I suspect your 'race' research is cringe-worthy. The confident assertions of 'racial' superiority are signal.

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#12 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:54 PM


What hit me hardest was the numerous and obvious frauds the Ozone Hole scare crowd was pushing on the 24/7 cable news cycle. Some of the claims were so laughable and against 8th grade level science it amazed me the media would allow it on the air - until you realize they are in on it. Once jaded by the Ozone Hole fraud and the doom that never happened the Climate Change fraud was very easy to spot and track.

Don't forget that Ozone is one of those causes about which the enviromentalists now claim victory. They got their legislation through, and now the problem has gone away. Never mind that there never was a problem.

You are correct - one that really pissed me off and affected me personally was the banning of 1,1,1-trichloroethane, also known as methyl chloroform. We bought it in the form of Mystic Metal Mover [name still exists but product has changed]. It was a miracle fluid for drilling stainless steel and cleaning. It was also the best wasp killer spray you could imagine. It frozen and suffocated them resulting in instant death upon contact because wasps breath through their skin and it evaporated so fast their lungs soffocated and froze at the same time. When I heard it was banned I did some ballpark numbers on the worldwide use and more or less figured out all of ever made if made every year would have less effect in a billion years than a single year of normal volcanic activity. Claim victory using science fraud for a problem that never existed. Even last night I personally defeated several alien Ninja assassins invisible to all by myself.

Dennis

#13 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:00 PM

Here's where I honestly believe the man-made global warming theory came from--in aesthetic political terms.

There is an interview with Joseph Campbell I saw a while back, I believe it was with Bill Moyers, where he was asked what the future of myth is for mankind, and if there will be any new ones as fundamental and influential as the Hero's Journey.

He responded that he believes new ones will come into being, but they will, by necessity, involve the earth as a major player since the earth gave rise to mankind. Life literally came into being from the very stuff of the earth.

I need to check dates, but I believe around the time of that interview there started to occur a huge increase in Wicca stuff (and similar earth-worship movements)--and the man-made global warming myth started getting serious.

I don't believe the birth of these movements in their present incarnation were a direct result of what Campbell said, but I do believe their sudden growth was--that shadow people with deep pockets and lots of covert influence heard his message loud and clear back then and poured their efforts and resources into fostering these earth movements.

Hell, now you even have manifestations like Avatar with the director, James Cameron, strutting about as if he's a modern-day messiah. His theme? The planet is The Source. A better myth could not be created according to Campbell's recipe. (It was funny, though, seeing Cameron saying he wanted to shoot people, ones he claims who have their heads up their asses, who didn't believe in man-made global warming. Google it and see for yourself if you missed it.)

The left and other dictators have always known the power of myth in human political affairs. The pro-individualist and rational side not so much.

At least Ayn Rand understood. I believe providing an alternative to Christian mythology was one of her purposes in writing Atlas Shrugged and one of the major components of its current influence. The similarities between John Galt and Jesus Christ are just too many to ignore.

If we want to get rid of the man-made global warming silliness, it will not happen solely by debunking it. We need a new earth myth to replace the one Al Gore came up with and its progeny like Avatar.

It looks like the Wicca stuff never did take off big-time for political purposes. Probably too ancient with too much noise in its mythic purity to resuscitate as a major player. (Some Vampire culture has taken off with the young, though. I believe it is loosely related to the Wicca fostering. Incidentally, James Cameron was the producer of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. That connection of dots might be forcing things, but I don't think so. I believe Cameron knows exactly what he is doing and why.)

Science may prove stuff, but myths sell and move hearts and minds to action. That's just the way the human race is.

We should never forget that myths don't need to be accurate and factual to be persuasive. But myths--fundamental level myths--allied to facts are the best of all.

This reminds me of the old tale about Truth as a beautiful woman. She wandered about a village naked and was laughed at, scorned, ignored and mocked. But once she dressed herself in the garment of Story, she became welcome--her company sought and treasured--in every home in the village.

I might try to find that interview later and put it up. I believe it's on YouTube.

Michael

I agree there are many fellow travelers but follow the money - communist intelligence agencies have funded and supported anti-nuclear protester all the way along. The leaders of those movements merely moved into other areas of infuence once they suceeded in stopping nuclear power plants from being built.

Dennis

#14 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:05 PM


All humans are classified as belonging to the species Homo sapiens and SOME humans belong to the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.

[ ... ]

If you study humans in Black Africa you see Homo Sapiens. You see tribalism, an average IQ of 70, even when measured by psychologists hoping for a higher number, some positive civilizing influence from Western culture (The Flynn Affect,) little if any scientific advancement over the millennia, and little hope for the millennia to come. Things are not going to change there, unless their gene pool is changed.

If we are discussing the nature of man, that particular geographic area, which used to be called the Dark Continent, can be scientifically, and conceptually set aside as part of a Hobbesian, brutish existence zone, inhabited by the first humans, who are still alive and thriving at a third or forth world level.

It is clear that when you have different groups of closely related peoples you will have different IQs - Chinese IQ is 108, the Ashk Jewish IQ is ~119, some African groups [67-71] , and blacks in the USA 87. Europeans are known to have a wide curve of high and low - some Asians a tighter and higher average distribution, other Asians a different story.

I irks me that the default Objectivish position on Climate Change or Anthropogenic Global Warming is scoffing and superior. I have yet to have had a proper wrangle with anyone on this list. To my eyes the anti-AGWA opinions are bought wholesale and distributed to the Objectivish as badges, shibboleths. It is disturbing that a majority of Republicans oppose AGWA explanations and a majority of Democrats embrace them -- another set of politicized shibboleths.

To veer off the well-trod road of anti-AGWA slogans so quickly, to veer off into flat-out racist Superiour Intelligence/Dark Continent Doomed Subspecies world ... this disturbs me even more. Peter Taylor has shown quite a gift for nationalizing insults (with Angela); here he runs off into Two Species Wonderland, and it ain't pretty.

Dennis, I suspect your 'race' research is cringe-worthy. The confident assertions of 'racial' superiority are signal.

As I said - society is not ready to discuss QM, intelligence, or able to fight the disinformation machine available when you're looking at the biggest wealth transfer scam in human history. No amount of evidence, logic or proof seems to work in any of these 3rd rail issues. Though few are really interested in the QM issue it does to the heart of many problems in science.

Dennis

#15 william.scherk

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:08 PM



What hit me hardest was the numerous and obvious frauds the Ozone Hole scare crowd was pushing on the 24/7 cable news cycle. Some of the claims were so laughable and against 8th grade level science it amazed me the media would allow it on the air - until you realize they are in on it. Once jaded by the Ozone Hole fraud and the doom that never happened the Climate Change fraud was very easy to spot and track.

Don't forget that Ozone is one of those causes about which the enviromentalists now claim victory. They got their legislation through, and now the problem has gone away. Never mind that there never was a problem.

You are correct - one that really pissed me off and affected me personally was the banning of 1,1,1-trichloroethane, also known as methyl chloroform. We bought it in the form of Mystic Metal Mover [name still exists but product has changed]. It was a miracle fluid for drilling stainless steel and cleaning.

The ban (in the USA) was only for 'non-essential' aerosolized products. As for bug killer/repellent, DEET is the best and has fewer killer side-effects on humans.

But, as I noted, the Objectivish default is that any CFC-reduction goals and achievements were junk science, that any concern with CFCs as 'greenhouse gases' is misplaced or fraudulent or deluded; that concern with ozone depletion was and is part of a hoax or fraud.

This is all settled, you see. No need for evidence or discussion.

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#16 william.scherk

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:15 PM



Dark Continent, can be scientifically, and conceptually set aside as part of a Hobbesian, brutish existence zone, inhabited by the first humans, who are still alive and thriving

Chinese IQ is 108, the Ashk Jewish IQ is ~119, some African groups [67-71] , and blacks in the USA 87. Europeans are known to have a wide curve of high and low - some Asians a tighter and higher average distribution, other Asians a different story.



To veer off [ ... ] into flat-out racist Superiour Intelligence/Dark Continent Doomed Subspecies world ... this disturbs me even more.

As I said - society is not ready to discuss QM, intelligence, or able to fight the disinformation machine available when you're looking at the biggest wealth transfer scam in human history.

Rant about your struggles to overturn bad QM theory in your QM thread. Rant about Racial Intelligence in a Racial Intelligence thread, if you must. Rant about Global Warming hoaxes here, where you introduced the topic. And if you want to make a connection between black IQs, 'disinformation machine,' and related scams, bring it on. As it is, they seem like greasy little racialist side-issues to me.

I am interested in a non-polemic challenge to AGWA, or even a straightforward narrative of the terrible Ozone Hoax Fraud. Spell it out, do not just assume it and mutter darkly about darkies and plots and QM. You will turn into Seymour before you know it.

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#17 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:16 PM




What hit me hardest was the numerous and obvious frauds the Ozone Hole scare crowd was pushing on the 24/7 cable news cycle. Some of the claims were so laughable and against 8th grade level science it amazed me the media would allow it on the air - until you realize they are in on it. Once jaded by the Ozone Hole fraud and the doom that never happened the Climate Change fraud was very easy to spot and track.

Don't forget that Ozone is one of those causes about which the enviromentalists now claim victory. They got their legislation through, and now the problem has gone away. Never mind that there never was a problem.

You are correct - one that really pissed me off and affected me personally was the banning of 1,1,1-trichloroethane, also known as methyl chloroform. We bought it in the form of Mystic Metal Mover [name still exists but product has changed]. It was a miracle fluid for drilling stainless steel and cleaning.

The ban (in the USA) was only for 'non-essential' aerosolized products. As for bug killer/repellent, DEET is the best and has fewer killer side-effects on humans.

But, as I noted, the Objectivish default is that any CFC-reduction goals and achievements were junk science, that any concern with CFCs as 'greenhouse gases' is misplaced or fraudulent or deluded; that concern with ozone depletion was and is part of a hoax or fraud.

This is all settled, you see. No need for evidence or discussion.

If you have anything specific to say about the Ozone or Climate Change frauds I am more than happy to discuss them. I have spent a great deal of time discussing both elsewhere and every argument tracked to its origin was junk science and/or political in nature.
When government central planners get to decide what is 'non-essential' they mean non-essential to maintain their power base - which has nothing to do with its damage to industry and competitiveness. If you've never used 1,1,1-trichloroethane for bug spray don't speak as though DEET even compares. It does not. I am only talking about spot applications. DEET may have its place in other uses.

Dennis

#18 Brant Gaede

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:18 PM

CFCs are a molecule heavy enough to settle down instead of going up to where they theoretically might deplete the ozone enough to make a "hole." Ozone is continually manufactured in the middle latitudes then it travels north and south. Readings from over 50 years ago seem to indicate that any hole in the 1990s was nothing new under the sun. I can't go to the trouble to reference any of this, but nobody seems to be worrying about the ozone hole any longer. Water vapor is the big greenhouse gas. CO2 seems to be insignificant comparatively. Climate change is the one verifiable constant in all this. It's always been changing. Right now there's been no heating up of the atmosphere since 1997. Theoretically we can cool things down. We cannot warm them up. What the human race needs fear is the next ice age.

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#19 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:21 PM




Dark Continent, can be scientifically, and conceptually set aside as part of a Hobbesian, brutish existence zone, inhabited by the first humans, who are still alive and thriving

Chinese IQ is 108, the Ashk Jewish IQ is ~119, some African groups [67-71] , and blacks in the USA 87. Europeans are known to have a wide curve of high and low - some Asians a tighter and higher average distribution, other Asians a different story.



To veer off [ ... ] into flat-out racist Superiour Intelligence/Dark Continent Doomed Subspecies world ... this disturbs me even more.

As I said - society is not ready to discuss QM, intelligence, or able to fight the disinformation machine available when you're looking at the biggest wealth transfer scam in human history.

Rant about your struggles to overturn bad QM theory in your QM thread. Rant about Racial Intelligence in a Racial Intelligence thread, if you must. Rant about Global Warming hoaxes here, where you introduced the topic. And if you want to make a connection between black IQs, 'disinformation machine,' and related scams, bring it on. As it is, they seem like greasy little racialist side-issues to me.

I am interested in a non-polemic challenge to AGWA, or even a straightforward narrative of the terrible Ozone Hoax Fraud. Spell it out, do not just assume it and mutter darkly about darkies and plots and QM. You will turn into Seymour before you know it.

I will address specifics if you wish to discuss them. All are settled issues as far as I am concerned unless you can come up with something new and remarkable I have not heard of.

Dennis

#20 dennislmay

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:23 PM

CFCs are a molecule heavy enough to settle down instead of going up to where they theoretically might deplete the ozone enough to make a "hole." Ozone is continually manufactured in the middle latitudes then it travels north and south. Readings from over 50 years ago seem to indicate that any hole in the 1990s was nothing new under the sun. I can't go to the trouble to reference any of this, but nobody seems to be worrying about the ozone hole any longer. Water vapor is the big greenhouse gas. CO2 seems to be insignificant comparatively. Climate change is the one verifiable constant in all this. It's always been changing. Right now there's been no heating up of the atmosphere since 1997. Theoretically we can cool things down. We cannot warm them up. What the human race needs fear is the next ice age.

--Brant

I suspect financial collapse and world war will divert interest from any climate issues in the short term. The next ice age or even a mini ice age would destablize civilization.

Dennis






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