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Anyone here read Italian?


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#1 George H. Smith

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 08:23 AM

I just read the first comment on my Cato Excursions page. I would like to respond, but, unfortunately, it is in Italian. (See below.) Can someone translate this for me? I can kinda make it out, but not nearly well enough to comment. I will include the translation in my reply so others can follow what is going on.

.
Umberto Fontana · Federico II Napoli
La parola tolleranza prevede e al tempo stesso presuppone la coesistenza del "tollerante" e del "tollerato". la sperequazione psicologica e perfino morale appare evidente.La sensibilità degli animi liberi fuggono queste connotazioni volta per volta buoniste, politically correct, progressive e-o progressiste.

See:
http://www.libertari...reedom#comments


I understand some of you will be sorely tempted to give joke translations. That's fine, since I would probably do the same thing. But if you give a serious translation, please be sure you know what you are doing.

Thanks.

Ghs

#2 Michael E. Marotta

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 12:24 PM

Babelfish suggests:
"The word tolerance previews and at the same time it presupposes the co-existence of the " tollerante" and of the " tollerato". the psychological sperequazione and moral even appears obvious. The sensibility of the free minds escapes these connotations turns for time buoniste, politically correct, progressive e-o progressives."

And I would fix that to
The word tolerance previews and at the same time it presupposes the co-existence of the " tolerated" and of the "tolerator". the psychological expectation (??) and moral even appears obvious. The sensibility of the free minds escapes these connotations turns for time for the better, politically correct, progressive vis-a-vis progressives.

(Best I can do. I had to take a class in Italian for Tourists. We never spoke it at home. That was for guineas.)

In short, in being "tolerant" you are objectifying the other person whom you tolerate. ... certainly not a problem here...

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#3 Xray

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:15 PM

Maybe Adam (Selene) can help?

#4 Selene

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 04:42 PM

Maybe Adam (Selene) can help?


Angela:

Thanks for the nomination.

Adam
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#5 Ninth Doctor

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 07:21 PM

And I would fix that to
The word tolerance previews and at the same time it presupposes the co-existence of the " tolerated" and of the "tolerator". the psychological expectation (??) and moral even appears obvious. The sensibility of the free minds escapes these connotations turns for time for the better, politically correct, progressive vis-a-vis progressives.

I'd swap out "previews" for "anticipates", "expectation" for "imbalance", and "escapes" for "flees". It still doesn't entirely add up, particularly the end.

I took a year of Italian 20 years ago, have spent some terrific vacations there, and am something of an opera fanatic. I also read good parts of Foucault's Pendulum in Italian, cross referencing it to the translation, resulting in some interesting differences in nuance.

Funny thing, I meant to leave a comment on the article, I was going to reference Voltaire's "écrasez l'infame", but I forget how I was going to tie it in. I must have gotten distracted by a Philabuster.
Prandium gratis non est

#6 Xray

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 03:51 AM

My knowledge of Italian is very limited, so I apologize beforehand if I'm way off base here -
Imo the gist of the comment is that religious tolerance can become morally problematic in case the members of a 'tolerated religion' advocate intolerance (toward e. g. other religious groups, apostates or non-believers, or even against the political system that permits them to practice their religion). So there seems to be a reproach contained (by the writer) toward those who are too tolerant because of political correctness, turning a blind eye to a possible religious radicalism that might e. g. want to establish a theocracy).

#7 william.scherk

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:13 AM

Here is my stab at it, George, with assistance from GoogleTranslate and a touch of OCD. X-ray may be adding just a touch of 'between the lines' -- I think the message is fairly straightforward (if luscious-sounding in Italian!)

The word tolerance provides, and at the same time assumes the coexistence of the "tolerant" and "tolerated".

The psychological and even moral inequality is obvious. From time to time, the sensitivities of free minds flee from the politically-correct, do-gooder, "progressive' and/or 'progressivist' connotations.


Maybe you can post this translation back to the gentleman to verify: I assume, perhaps wrongly, that he is not reading George H Smith in Italian.

Edited by william.scherk, 02 November 2011 - 02:13 AM.

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#8 George H. Smith

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:46 AM

Here is my stab at it, George, with assistance from GoogleTranslate and a touch of OCD. X-ray may be adding just a touch of 'between the lines' -- I think the message is fairly straightforward (if luscious-sounding in Italian!)

The word tolerance provides, and at the same time assumes the coexistence of the "tolerant" and "tolerated".

The psychological and even moral inequality is obvious. From time to time, the sensitivities of free minds flee from the politically-correct, do-gooder, "progressive' and/or 'progressivist' connotations.



Maybe you can post this translation back to the gentleman to verify: I assume, perhaps wrongly, that he is not reading George H Smith in Italian.


Thanks -- and thanks to Michael and Ninth as well.

The first response I got was offlist, so I assume the person wants to remain anonymous. He offered the following as his "best guess," stating that he doesn't speak Italian fluently. His translation is similar to yours.


The word tolerance, at the same time provides and assumes the coexistence of the "tolerant" and "tolerated". Psychological and even moral inequality is obvious.
The sensitivity of the free spirits flee these associations from time to time, do-gooders, politically correct, -progressive or progressive.


Ghs






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