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Geert Wilders, the bravest man in Europe.


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#41 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 12:53 AM

LM:

Precisely what my understanding is of Osama's overall game plan and we stepped right into it and are ensnared on the flypaper precisely as planned.

We are spiraling in debt. Essentially we have lost our will, focus and mythology.

We are lost like a giant blinded cyclops stumbling in the worlds valley, accidentally stepping on a village or two and raising our club to the sky proclaiming victory.

Adam

Yes exactly, and what is worse is that by the actions that the US has taken over the last 50 years in supporting dictatorships and monarchies, the US sold out all of its values.. All of the things that made the US great and have a moral high ground were there and have now been lost.. The murder of Osama bin Laden was the nail in the US Government's coffin.

What happened America?

#42 Infidel

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 04:18 AM

In response to LM's question; America ain't over yet:




#43 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 06:29 AM


LM:

Precisely what my understanding is of Osama's overall game plan and we stepped right into it and are ensnared on the flypaper precisely as planned.

We are spiraling in debt. Essentially we have lost our will, focus and mythology.

We are lost like a giant blinded cyclops stumbling in the worlds valley, accidentally stepping on a village or two and raising our club to the sky proclaiming victory.

Adam

Yes exactly, and what is worse is that by the actions that the US has taken over the last 50 years in supporting dictatorships and monarchies, the US sold out all of its values.. All of the things that made the US great and have a moral high ground were there and have now been lost.. The murder of Osama bin Laden was the nail in the US Government's coffin.

What happened America?


In a word, we have been sucked into the vortex of the Forever War. The United States and Americans do not have the balls the Romans did. We are unfit to pursue a Pax Americana. We just do not have the cojones for it. We should have taken the advice of George Washington and avoided entangling alliances. Not because it is moral, but because it is practical.

Our downfall was this: 1. We won WW2 almost intact with relatively small losses. 2. In doing so we acquired a nuclear monopoly which lasted four years, but made us think we were unbeatable. 3. We then took on the mantle of Anti-Communism world wide and turned our quarrel with the Soviet Union into a Mannechean Armageddon. 4 The segued into a quasi imperialist mode of keeping the peace by playing troublesome regimes off one against the other. The British were good at this, we are not. The result; The Forever War which we are going to lose.

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#44 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 12:33 PM

In response to LM's question; America ain't over yet:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Lr7sUblQ40c

Oh please.. What a load of BS.

That is outrageously stupid.

It is okay to rape your maids? BS.. Rape is a crime where the rapist is punished, the victim is supposed to be treated like a victim and not blamed for the crime against them..

What she's describing is not Islam, rather it's the cultural tendencies of the region that not only occur within the Muslim community, but also occur within the Christian community too and other communities in the region..

Infidel, if you really believe this rubbish then I really feel sorry for anyone associated with you.

And you claim that 'America ain't over yet'?

It's too late.. It was over for America when Americans had defecated on their Founding Fathers by not being vigilant in protecting the values that their nation was founded on and sold the soul of their nation and gave into the military industrial complex and the international bankers who provided Americans with a cocoon of ignorance, stupidity and laziness to wrap themselves in whilst both committed unspeakable crimes in their name. America could never be defeated except by the negligence of its own people.. This has definitely occurred..


So what are you going to do America? Are you going to take it back? Can you even be successful at it if you try? I sure hope so otherwise there are going to be several hundred million Americans that wake up one day soon and realize that they've lost it all and have been swindled by these vermin that will just move onto their next victim without remorse like a rapist..

#45 Infidel

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 01:49 PM

And America is not dead, despite the almost glee from you, and the doom and gloom from others, a doom and gloom that you are more than happy to feed. So far as America means liberty, it will never die, which was the point in my posting Nonie Darwish. Ayn Rand is right about evil being impotent; it will never overcome the desire for liberty and justice.

#46 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:10 PM


In response to LM's question; America ain't over yet:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Lr7sUblQ40c

Oh please.. What a load of BS.

That is outrageously stupid.

It is okay to rape your maids? BS.. Rape is a crime where the rapist is punished, the victim is supposed to be treated like a victim and not blamed for the crime against them..

What she's describing is not Islam, rather it's the cultural tendencies of the region that not only occur within the Muslim community, but also occur within the Christian community too and other communities in the region..

Infidel, if you really believe this rubbish then I really feel sorry for anyone associated with you.

And you claim that 'America ain't over yet'?

It's too late.. It was over for America when Americans had defecated on their Founding Fathers by not being vigilant in protecting the values that their nation was founded on and sold the soul of their nation and gave into the military industrial complex and the international bankers who provided Americans with a cocoon of ignorance, stupidity and laziness to wrap themselves in whilst both committed unspeakable crimes in their name. America could never be defeated except by the negligence of its own people.. This has definitely occurred..


So what are you going to do America? Are you going to take it back? Can you even be successful at it if you try? I sure hope so otherwise there are going to be several hundred million Americans that wake up one day soon and realize that they've lost it all and have been swindled by these vermin that will just move onto their next victim without remorse like a rapist..


We shall see what happens. As you dudes like to say In'sha'allah.

It is possible, but not overwhelming likely the the U.S. will "muddle through" the next decade. We shall see. As God wills it.

We survived the Civil War, so anything is possible.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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#47 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 04:08 PM

And you claim that 'America ain't over yet'?

It's too late..

LM,

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I moved here after 32 years in Brazil. America looks fine to me. There's a lot of media stuff about doom and gloom, and the job market ain't that good, but I have yet to see widespread hunger, etc.

The opposite of 9% unemployment is 91% employment.

Does 91% mean "over" to you?

On the intellectual front, there's a Tea Party movement raising public awareness of the Progressive attempt to replace the code of the Founding Fathers from early education on. The very fact that this is now in the mainstream news and is an item of serious debate in current elections shows me that it is not "over."

I have no idea what you mean by "America is over." It sounds effective as a hot-button phrase, but I can't find any conceptual referents for it that are valid. So far, in my thinking, these are just empty words that reflect a smidgen of contention and little else.

It's like someone saying, "Islam is over."

Cognitively, it means nothing. In normative terms, it's on the level of sticking your tongue out at someone.

Michael

Know thyself...


#48 Infidel

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 02:06 AM

Oh please.. What a load of BS.

That is outrageously stupid.

It is okay to rape your maids? BS.. Rape is a crime where the rapist is punished, the victim is supposed to be treated like a victim and not blamed for the crime against them..


I will let a pious muslim speak for me:

http://www.translati...i-want-sex.html

#49 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 03:36 AM

LM,

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I moved here after 32 years in Brazil. America looks fine to me. There's a lot of media stuff about doom and gloom, and the job market ain't that good, but I have yet to see widespread hunger, etc.

The opposite of 9% unemployment is 91% employment.

Does 91% mean "over" to you?

On the intellectual front, there's a Tea Party movement raising public awareness of the Progressive attempt to replace the code of the Founding Fathers from early education on. The very fact that this is now in the mainstream news and is an item of serious debate in current elections shows me that it is not "over."

I have no idea what you mean by "America is over." It sounds effective as a hot-button phrase, but I can't find any conceptual referents for it that are valid. So far, in my thinking, these are just empty words that reflect a smidgen of contention and little else.

It's like someone saying, "Islam is over."

Cognitively, it means nothing. In normative terms, it's on the level of sticking your tongue out at someone.

Michael

Michael the America of today is a mere shell of the America the Founding Fathers helped to create.. The shell still looks the same, but the yolk has become rotten on the inside because there has been too many years of prosperity that has placated Americans.. Thomas Jefferson was right when he said:

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty."


He also stated that:

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

This hasn't happened in a long time.. And so now we have the Military Industrial Complex, The International Banking Cartels, The Federal Reserve etc running the nation and as a result, the US no longer sincerely stands for the ideals of the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence.. It has been hijacked and this is the reason why I stated that Americans need to take the US back from the hands of those tyrants.. Until this happens America is and will continue to be "over"..

I don't find this to be a good thing, it's a horrible thing for Americans to be so ignorant and blind to the horrors and atrocities committed in their name, and they will soon find themselves as slaves, just like Jefferson warned. What's worse is that unfortunately we make ourselves criminally negligent when we allow the governments elected to represent us to go and murder millions of innocent people who didn't deserve it at the bidding of the military industrial complex and the international bankers.

Then we wonder why people in other countries hate us and take great offense to when they attack us after begging us for years to cease our government's behavior that harms them? That above all is the worst part.. You know this very clearly Michael when looking at the US Government's role in Latin America and how many Latin Americans have suffered greatly at the hands of US Foreign Policy in keeping dictators and tyrants in power and supporting them while Americans slept soundly at night, unaware of what was happening in their name..

I will let a pious muslim speak for me:

http://www.translati...i-want-sex.html


Perhaps you should listen to what he said if you're letting him speak for you.. At no point did that mention maids, it was talking about slaves.. I also take issue with the fact that the person who posted the video put less than 50% of the actual comments from the person speaking, it seems to me he was going into further explanation towards the end as to what the slavery entails, which would have benefited you if you truly intend to learn.

#50 Selene

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:26 AM

Michael the America of today is a mere shell of the America the Founding Fathers helped to create.. The shell still looks the same, but the yolk has become rotten on the inside because there has been too many years of prosperity that has placated Americans.. Thomas Jefferson was right when he said:

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty."


He also stated that:

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"


LM:

Some crazy Russian lady created the parable of the Oak tree in the first chapter of Atlas. It clearly supports your argument, unfortunately.

The Oak Tree represents the United States. He describes the tree, "Its roots clutched the hill like a fist with fingers sunk into the soil, and he thought that if a giant were to seize it by the top, he would not be able to uproot it, but would swing the hill and the whole of the earth with it."

This passage aptly describes the financial and technological power of the United States. The reference to giants is interestingly coincidental, or perhaps not. Perhaps the reference is purposeful warning us of the return of the Nephilim. This is also the second reference to lightning in the book. The first describes, "High on the side of a tower there was a crack in the shape of motionless lightning, the length of ten stories." The second reference to lightning splits the oak tree in half.

Eddie remembers childhood summers on the Taggart estate with the Taggart children, for whom he now works. During Eddie's childhood, a hundred-year-old oak tree stands on a hill over the Hudson River. At age seven, Eddie feels safe in the tree's strength. Then it is struck by lightning, breaking it in half, revealing an empty shell. The trunk was only an empty shell; its heart had rotted away long ago; there was nothing inside – just a thin gray dust that was being dispersed by the whim of the faintest wind. The living power had gone, and the shape it left had not been able to stand without it.

The above section is a compilation of critical analyses of the parable in Atlas.

Adam
I know Shayne will not cede that this parable is an argument, but of course it is.

Edited by Selene, 17 June 2011 - 11:27 AM.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#51 Infidel

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:26 PM

At no point did that mention maids,

That was good of him. Obviously there's no problem then; slaves are okay just so long as you don't touch the maids--although, there's a campaign of rape going on across Europe in the cause of Jihad. The latest victim, being a fourteen year old girl who took her own life after being gang-raped by a group of muslims in Norway. But then that's a different story, because it's not maids.

#52 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:21 PM

LM:

Some crazy Russian lady created the parable of the Oak tree in the first chapter of Atlas. It clearly supports your argument, unfortunately.

The Oak Tree represents the United States. He describes the tree, "Its roots clutched the hill like a fist with fingers sunk into the soil, and he thought that if a giant were to seize it by the top, he would not be able to uproot it, but would swing the hill and the whole of the earth with it."

This passage aptly describes the financial and technological power of the United States. The reference to giants is interestingly coincidental, or perhaps not. Perhaps the reference is purposeful warning us of the return of the Nephilim. This is also the second reference to lightning in the book. The first describes, "High on the side of a tower there was a crack in the shape of motionless lightning, the length of ten stories." The second reference to lightning splits the oak tree in half.

Eddie remembers childhood summers on the Taggart estate with the Taggart children, for whom he now works. During Eddie's childhood, a hundred-year-old oak tree stands on a hill over the Hudson River. At age seven, Eddie feels safe in the tree's strength. Then it is struck by lightning, breaking it in half, revealing an empty shell. The trunk was only an empty shell; its heart had rotted away long ago; there was nothing inside just a thin gray dust that was being dispersed by the whim of the faintest wind. The living power had gone, and the shape it left had not been able to stand without it.

The above section is a compilation of critical analyses of the parable in Atlas.

Adam
I know Shayne will not cede that this parable is an argument, but of course it is.

Wow! Very Interesting! I'm glad that she agreed..

Though I'm not quite sure why that is unfortunate? In the fact that it has become like this or that she agreed with me?

#53 Selene

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:36 PM

Wow! Very Interesting! I'm glad that she agreed..

Though I'm not quite sure why that is unfortunate? In the fact that it has become like this or that she agreed with me?


LM:

Lol!

Unfortunate that is has become like this of course.

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#54 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:56 PM

LM:

Lol!

Unfortunate that is has become like this of course.

Adam

Ah yes, very unfortunate. Democracy is a responsibility, it is the responsibility of all of us to stand up and make sure that the people we elect into power are not doing things in our name which do not represent us. It's unfortunate that we've become so engrossed in American Idol, MTV, Reality TV, Football etc that we no longer pay attention to this..

Some would argue that because it is a democracy, we are ultimately responsible for what is done in our name, and that we share guilt for those actions.. At the very least I believe it makes us criminally negligent.. Especially when people overseas suffer due to our nation's actions in the region..

#55 Mike Renzulli

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:12 PM

Since the Wahabbis have dominated Sunni Islam and the Muslim Brotherhood has influenced not only the Sunni but largely the Shia sect their point of view will be the dominate voices in the faith. Hence, the radicalization of Muslims and the hatred the fundamentalists espouse will not go away.

I read one statistic that over 80% of the Mosques around the world and the madrasas that teach the religion in Middle Eastern countries are dominated by Wahabbist teachings and Wahabbi scholars. By default they and the Ikhwan make up what is to be known as Islam. The only way to stop this so other points of view in Islam can emerge are to force the Saudis supporting the Wahabbis and the Syrians and Iranians who support the Muslim Brotherhood to shut their funding spigots shut off.

William,

Europe has had a huge influx of Wahhabi settlers with massive funding from Saudi Arabia. This is the conceptual referent Wilders has and he applies it to all of the Islamic world. Once he sees Islamists, he points and says this is proof.

If Islam only equaled Wahhabism, Wilders would be right. But he makes a conceptual error of assigning the subcategory the status of the main category. That's why his kind of discourse makes it extremely hard to combat the fanatical strains within Islam.

Michael


Edited by Mike Renzulli, 17 June 2011 - 05:17 PM.


#56 Selene

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:17 PM

LM:

A significant correction. The US is not a democracy. It is a representative Constitutional republic. Huge difference, but we are still responsible for what the nation does in our names.

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#57 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:46 PM

Since the Wahabbis have dominated Sunni Islam and the Muslim Brotherhood has influenced not only the Sunni but largely the Shia sect their point of view will be the dominate voices in the faith. Hence, the radicalization of Muslims and the hatred the fundamentalists espouse will not go away.

I read one statistic that over 80% of the Mosques around the world and the madrasas that teach the religion in Middle Eastern countries are dominated by Wahabbist teachings and Wahabbi scholars. By default they and the Ikhwan make up what is to be known as Islam. The only way to stop this so other points of view in Islam can emerge are to force the Saudis supporting the Wahabbis and the Syrians and Iranians who support the Muslim Brotherhood to shut their funding spigots shut off.

I disagree with the notion that Wahhabis have dominated Sunni Islam.. I also disagree with the notion that the Muslim Bortherhood has influenced the Shia..

The Wahhabis do give a lot of money, but a lot of communities raise there own. They're wary of the Wahhabis.

LM:

A significant correction. The US is not a democracy. It is a representative Constitutional republic. Huge difference, but we are still responsible for what the nation does in our names.

Adam

I'm sorry Selene I was referring in general to the West, that they are inherently democratic nations with the ability to elect representatives and leaders to act in their name.

Not in the purest form of the word.

#58 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 08:27 PM

And so now we have the Military Industrial Complex, The International Banking Cartels, The Federal Reserve etc running the nation and as a result, the US no longer sincerely stands for the ideals of the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence..

LM,

I am no fan of these institutions (as you have often read in my posts), but my disagreement with you is over the phrase "running the nation." Those interests are not "running the nation." They are not even running the government, although they are entrenched and have a toxic damaging influence on freedom. Unelected bureaucrats are the ones who actually run the USA government. And the American citizens "run the nation." The big financial interests are merely playing a con game and getting away with a lot. But they are not "ruling" the country in the sense dictators rule. Oh, there are plenty of cases of abuses of power, but I don't see the wholesale oppression dictators impose.

It has been hijacked and this is the reason why I stated that Americans need to take the US back from the hands of those tyrants..

I fully agree that we need to throw the bums out and cut their ability to use the USA Treasury and Military for their insanity. But I do not agree that they "hijacked" the US. Hitler hijacked Germany. I don't see anything close to that happening here. And I say that while fully detesting the abuses that do exist.

Until this happens America is and will continue to be "over"..

I totally disagree with this. America is simply waking up right now.

In USA history, we keep going through cycles where people get on with their lives and neglect politics as prosperity reigns. Then the monkey-shines kick in from the political side (with big businesses also trying to get unfair favor from government protections). We get near a tipping point. Then the people wake up and make a big stink. They throw the bums out and resolve the issue. Whew! That was something, but now it's over. Prosperity starts kicking in, then people go back to their lives and neglect politics. Then the monkey-shines kick in again and people start waking up again. And so on.

I don't see where that cycle is "over." Not by a long shot.

We are smack dab in the middle of the upswing

Michael

Know thyself...


#59 Chris Baker

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:01 PM

That is how it is to be Jewish. The Muslims are out to get my pink Jewish ass. They have said so many times and I believe them.


Do people know that you are Jewish simply by sight?

#60 Chris Baker

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:04 PM

The U.S. Killed over one million Japanese non-combatants in the Pacific War. So sorry. Maybe the Japanese should have thought of that before they bombed Pearl Harbor.

In a word, collateral damage does not bother me one little bit.


Maybe the USA should have considered all this before it put an embargo on Japan.




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