"Objectivist" Party??


missle_man

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I just joined this forum to vent a rant and to see if anyone else has experience with an entity called "The Objectivist Party". This is a political party formed by a guy named Tom Stevens out of New York. He ran as a Presidential candidate in 2 states in the 2008 election and plans to run again in 2012. He reportedly has been affiliated with Republicans, the Tea Party, Libertarians and he even created the New York Personal Freedom Party last fall.

I have done some research on Dr. Stevens and the "Objectivist" Party and have found them lacking in terms of adhering to Objectivist principles. I won't go into details but wonder if any other Objectivists have crossed paths with this outfit? Lastly, can they misuse the term "Objectivist" with impunity? Has this been addressed and I just haven't found it? I do not think Ms. Rand would be too pleased with an "Objectivist" political party.

Thanks.

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Never heard of these people, and something tells me I won't be hearing much of them again.

The best way to answer a legal question is to ask a lawyer. Short of that, I believe that you have to trademark an invented name to keep others from using it. If I'm wrong (or even if I'm right), you can expect Peikoff and his lawyers to pounce.

I doubt that Rand could have trademarked "Objectivism" anyway. Ideas on this level of abstraction aren't trademark material, and she wasn't the first to use the term.

Edited by Reidy
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Cyrus:

Ayn's childhood champion's name!

Welcome to OL.

I became aware of them a little while ago, but I have not had the time to make contact with them.

"Unfortunately, your movement has spawned Toxic Randroid Cultists who reject reason in the application of your philosophy and who treat your every word on every topic as if it were biblical truth" - Dr Tom Stevens, founder of and Presidential candidate for the Objectivist Party in a speech at Ayn Rand's grave in April 2009

The quote above would certainly get my attention.

Adam

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Never heard of these people, and something tells me I won't be hearing much of them again.

The best way to answer a legal question is to ask a lawyer. Short of that, I believe that you have to trademark an invented name to keep others from using it. If I'm wrong (or even if I'm right), you can expect Peikoff and his lawyers to pounce.

Stevens and the OP have been at it since 2008 and I can find no indication that they have been challenged. That's why I asked here. I've been an Objectivist since college days in the 70's and shun organized political parties, thus thought I might have missed something.

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Cyrus:

Ayn's childhood champion's name!

Welcome to OL.

I became aware of them a little while ago, but I have not had the time to make contact with them.

"Unfortunately, your movement has spawned Toxic Randroid Cultists who reject reason in the application of your philosophy and who treat your every word on every topic as if it were biblical truth" - Dr Tom Stevens, founder of and Presidential candidate for the Objectivist Party in a speech at Ayn Rand's grave in April 2009

The quote above would certainly get my attention.

Adam

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, the quote you provided was one of the factoids that got me on the trail of Stevens and the OP. I do not know if Ayn Rand or her estate ever tried to trademark "Objectivist", "Objectivism", etc. but having an organization refer to itself as "Objectivist" when it's principles stand in conflict with Objectivism is just Wrong.

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Cyrus:

I checked the page below out when I ran into their website a while ago. I am heavily political and none of the affiliates rang any bells with my network.

This is their Facebook site and affiliates page

Where did you go to school?

Are you a New Yorker?

You might want to stick around at OL since it is quite unique.

Adam

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Cyrus:

I checked the page below out when I ran into their website a while ago. I am heavily political and none of the affiliates rang any bells with my network.

This is their Facebook site and affiliates page

Where did you go to school?

Are you a New Yorker?

You might want to stick around at OL since it is quite unique.

Adam

Adam,

I have reviewed their party web site and actually had an exchange with Tom Stevens on facebook. That exchange (ugh) was what led me to start my research. No, I'm not a New Yorker. I grew up in Virginia and have lived in Arizona for the last 29 years. Undergrad at Va Tech, graduate degree from James Madison University. i was a young freshman at Va Tech in 1971 when I discovered Ayn Rand, Maria Montessori, Henry Hazlett and many others. That was a life-changing time for me.

I will stick around. Sure would like to see this faux-Objectivist change the name of his political party. Maybe one of the more influential members of the Objectivist group will see my post and respond.

Cyrus ... but not the one from 1914 :-)

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Cyrus:

Now you got me started and low and behold Dr. Death of NoodleFood was asked to be a Presidential elector for Dr, Steven's Presidential run in 2008:

Dr. Death's response to Dr. Steven

This response, was, as she states, before she knew he was a LIBERTARIAN!

Adam

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Cyrus:

Now you got me started and low and behold Dr. Death of NoodleFood was asked to be a Presidential elector for Dr, Steven's Presidential run in 2008:

Dr. Death's response to Dr. Steven

This response, was, as she states, before she knew he was a LIBERTARIAN!

Adam

Adam,

I had read that post on NoodleFood. Dr. Death?? How did she earn such a nickname?

Cyrus

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Cyrus:

Now you got me started and low and behold Dr. Death of NoodleFood was asked to be a Presidential elector for Dr, Steven's Presidential run in 2008:

Dr. Death's response to Dr. Steven

This response, was, as she states, before she knew he was a LIBERTARIAN!

Adam

Adam,

I had read that post on NoodleFood. Dr. Death?? How did she earn such a nickname?

Cyrus

Etiquette, Adam! The correct appellation is "Dr. Mrs. Dr. Death"

Us widows are touchy about these things.

Carol Daunce Stuart Lynam B.A., TESL (Mrs.)

Edited by daunce lynam
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Cyrus:

Now you got me started and low and behold Dr. Death of NoodleFood was asked to be a Presidential elector for Dr, Steven's Presidential run in 2008:

Dr. Death's response to Dr. Steven

This response, was, as she states, before she knew he was a LIBERTARIAN!

Adam

Adam,

I had read that post on NoodleFood. Dr. Death?? How did she earn such a nickname?

Cyrus

Cyrus:

I just thought of it today as I typed. I detest what Leonard has non-created as Ayn's intellectual heir. Dr. Noodles is from that same school.

For your information, I was one of the lucky folks who attended NBI in the early '60's when the movement was exploding. I saw the pseudo-cultish potential, but I believed that we could weather those forces because they would lack original thought.

However, when the split erupted at the end of the decade, I shrugged my shoulders and continued developing the movement with the beginnings of the libertarian party.

I truly did not expect the atrophy of the Objectivist core at the hands of Leonard. I misjudged that aspect. Dr. Noodles is just another True Believer who will continue the atrophy which prompted the Dr. Death Dr. Mrs. Dr. Death moniker.

And thanks for the correction Carol.

Adam

Post Script: This post is being typed with my brand new Ubuntu Open Source Unix Operating System and it is phenomenal.

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Post Script: This post is being typed with my brand new Ubuntu Open Source Unix Operating System and it is phenomenal.

"Ubuntu" yigama wesiZulu!

Gatling guns and the British square!

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Post Script: This post is being typed with my brand new Ubuntu Open Source Unix Operating System and it is phenomenal.

"Ubuntu" yigama wesiZulu!

Gatling guns and the British square!

trans: "Unbuntu" (i.e., "humanity") is a word of the Zulu language.

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Post Script: This post is being typed with my brand new Ubuntu Open Source Unix Operating System and it is phenomenal.

"Ubuntu" yigama wesiZulu!

Gatling guns and the British square!

trans: "Unbuntu" (i.e., "humanity") is a word of the Zulu language.

Ted:

This movement did start in Africa and I have been straining at the leash to use it as my operating system. I installed it today and it is amazing. Just like a Mac. No Windows hang ups and tracking to slow down your machine.

Tons of apps, support, software. It is like Christmas!

Adam

Edited by Selene
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Post Script: This post is being typed with my brand new Ubuntu Open Source Unix Operating System and it is phenomenal.

"Ubuntu" yigama wesiZulu!

Gatling guns and the British square!

trans: "Unbuntu" (i.e., "humanity") is a word of the Zulu language.

Ted:

This movement did start in Africa and I have been straining at the leash to use it as my operating system. I installed it today and it is amazing. Just like a Mac. No Windows hang ups and tracking to slow down your machine.

Tons of apps, support, software. It is like Christmas!

Adam

It runs windows compatible software? I hate windows. I have a Mac which stays at home, and a PC which travels and which I use for Netflix, etc. I would consider trying a third operating system if it would support the programs I use. I am quite happy with Mac excpt for a very few things, and my windows 7 PC hasn't crashed since I bought it - although it tends to decide for me when I wish to do odd things like open a new web page when I accidentaly touch the mousepad in some way I have yet to figure out or be able to disable.

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Why use Ubuntu

Ubuntu home page

Ubuntu (pronounced /ʊˈbʊntuː/)[5][6] is a computer operating system based on the Debian GNU/Linux distribution and distributed as free and open source software. It is named after the Southern African philosophy of Ubuntu ("humanity towards others").[7]

With an estimated global usage of more than 12 million users,[8] Ubuntu is designed primarily for desktop use, although netbook and server editions exist as well.[9] Web statistics suggest that Ubuntu's share of Linux desktop usage is about 50%,[10][11] and indicate upward-trending usage as a web server.[12]

Ubuntu is sponsored by the UK-based company Canonical Ltd., owned by South African entrepreneur Mark Shuttleworth. Canonical generates revenue by selling technical support and services tied to Ubuntu, while the operating system itself is entirely free of charge.

Ubuntu Wiki

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Why use Ubuntu

Ubuntu home page

Ubuntu (pronounced /ʊˈbʊntuː/)[5][6] is a computer operating system based on the Debian GNU/Linux distribution and distributed as free and open source software. It is named after the Southern African philosophy of Ubuntu ("humanity towards others").[7]

With an estimated global usage of more than 12 million users,[8] Ubuntu is designed primarily for desktop use, although netbook and server editions exist as well.[9] Web statistics suggest that Ubuntu's share of Linux desktop usage is about 50%,[10][11] and indicate upward-trending usage as a web server.[12]

Ubuntu is sponsored by the UK-based company Canonical Ltd., owned by South African entrepreneur Mark Shuttleworth. Canonical generates revenue by selling technical support and services tied to Ubuntu, while the operating system itself is entirely free of charge.

Ubuntu Wiki

I have bookmarked this page but make no promises until I buy my fourth laptop.

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Cyrus (Gulcher),

Welcome to OL.

I saw that Objectivist Party stuff a couple of years ago and it did not strike me as anything serious. More of a vanity effort than anything else.

So I don't think it is going to amount to anything.

Even if it did, I don't like the idea of a political Objectivist Party. Too many people in our subcommunity are wedded to waaaaay too much contempt and hatred as a lifestyle for me to be comfortable with a "political" Objectivist getting real power in his or her hands.

Frankly, I prefer normal scumbag greedy politicians to zealots moved in large part by hatred. (I'm not saying all would be that way, but it's reasonable to assume some would be.) It would break my heart to see the productive heroism and promise of Rand's work go through that kind transformation under the banner of being politically implemented.

Power corrupts. And someone who hates a lot is particularly vulnerable to the temptation to abuse it.

Anyway, I'm an individualist at heart. Keep the ideas separate from the organizations. That way you can change ad hoc support when and if you find it interesting to do so.

There it is. I don't endorse the Objectivist Party you mentioned. I would never vote for it. Ever.

But to be fair, I've got no beef with Stevens, either. My knowledge of him is superficial. At a distance, he looks like he's a good person with good intentions, but nothing worth supporting execution-wise. If I ever meet him, I will probably be quite cordial as my default posture.

Michael

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Hello Michael,

Thank you for the welcome. I am an individualist, as well. Objectivism has guided my life for 40 years (this month!) As a student of Objectivism, I am aware of the schisms that have happened both before and after the death of Ayn Rand. I believe such conflict is bound to happen whenever type A personalities (a trait I see in most Objectivists, including myself) interact. I do not adhere to any particular "school" of Objectivism. Rather, I try to absorb the words and intent of Ayn Rand and apply that to how I run my life. It has worked well for me for 40 years.

I stated in an earlier post that I eschew alliance with any political party. Frankly, I don't see much difference between any of the parties beyond how they dress their windows. And I sure don't find much in common with them from an Objectivist viewpoint. Still, it bothers me to see a political party co-opt the term "Objectivist".

This is an interesting message board. I will continue to look around and contribute when I have something helpful to say.

Cyrus

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  • 3 years later...

Well, I just found this forum by doing a google search for "Has any politician won a race running as an objectionist in any level of government?" Very recently, I suffered a mental breakdown in my local municipal courtroom after fighting a ridiculous failure to yield citation issued by a power hungry egotistical police officer because I backed out of an obstructed view parking spot at midnight, in front of an suv with one dim headlight and the other burnt out. When I saw him at 350 ft away I quickly executed a Y-turn and little did I know a cop was behind him. Instead of pulling over the vehicle illegally operating on the road and almost causing an accident the officer did a U-turn, pulled me over, gave me a ticket because "I forced him them to "apply" (not slam on) their brakes. My defense was clear cut as this case was heard by the State Supreme Court creating a defense of Legal Necessity, which states that a driver that violates a traffic law due to another driver violating a traffic law is innocent of any wrong doing if the 2nd offense was executed to preserve or have a tendency to preserve a greater good. In this case, my backing out avoided an accident when pulling back in may have taken too long to avoid the accident. Anyways, the judge did not allow me to state my defense in a confirmation of plea, and then the judge did not allow me to have an opening statement, Instead, he found me guilty, and like all others in society, I licked my wounds, paid the ticket, and left. A couple days later, I get a notice from the DOT that the judge ordered me to traffic school with this being my first ticket in over a decade solely as a punitive measure because I had the audacity to challenge authority. I went back to court with a motion to vacate the traffic school order (denied), and then a motion for mistrial due to due process violations as per the state statutes and not only denied, but the prosecutor and judge then proceeded to chuckle due to the fact that I thought our laws were to be enforced by the judicial system. Well, I lost it and for 20 minutes straight I vulgarly tore the judge apart for his abuse of power while he smacked his gavel 100s of times screaming for "order", and when 4 officers stepped behind me with hands on their guns and cuffs pulled and the judge threatening to arrest me I pushed off the podium, hands behind my back, and dared him to arrest me. Instead, the judge just started screaming over me and insisted that I get out of his courtroom. (End of long story, and now to my point of question)...

With a 172 IQ, severely OCD, and realizing my mind was now spiraling out of control, I searched google for guidance and found Ayn Rand's political theories, read Atlas Shrugged, and it screwed my head back on straight. I had never been told about Ayn Rand and the fact that she is the most factual and accurate philosopher in all of US history! Anyways, it seems that objectivists feel that a political group is wrong because it is a "way of life" but what I can't understand is if we do not get a "John Galt" to repeal the laws that our corrupt government has created and put a stop to this socialist concept of forced assistance taxation how can we ever expect to achieve true happiness. Yes, my situation may come across as blown out of proportion due to a stupid municipal citation, but for the last 20 years of my life I have tried to just to keep to myself and live my "way of life" but around every corner we have guys like Obama stripping us of our rights, freedoms, and money faster than we can even enjoy them just because the majority of society enjoys the government benefits of being lazy and getting others to take care of them. Why are objectivists not searching for a John Galt to help us save the success of humanity?

PS - The municipal court was just a final straw, after 1st owning the 4th ranked mortgage company in my state that I closed due to new "reforms" after the governmental intervention that caused the real estate collapse, and then going bankrupt after spending over 1 million dollars and 5 years of my life to invent the first slot machine gaming platform that runs with artificial intelligence and it failed because the mathematics used was too complex for a government commission to validate that it was 5 times more accurate in payout percentaging than any other slot machine in the world by using over 12 Google Programming variable combinations and formulas to predict a player's psychology and automatically reprogram itself to benefit the entertainment enjoyment of each and every player that sits down to play it! After all of this, and discovering Ayn Rand, I understand what John Galt felt, and why I now dream of finding my own Galt's Gulch! I apologize for the length of this post, and it's tangents, but after having Ayn Rand save my sanity, I just want to understand why true objectivists are not asking the most important question...Not Who, but Where is our John Galt?

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Well, I just found this forum by doing a google search for "Has any politician won a race running as an objectionist in any level of government?"

I had never been told about Ayn Rand and the fact that she is the most factual and accurate philosopher in all of US history! Anyways, it seems that objectivists feel that a political group is wrong because it is a "way of life" but what I can't understand is if we do not get a "John Galt" to repeal the laws that our corrupt government has created and put a stop to this socialist concept of forced assistance taxation how can we ever expect to achieve true happiness.

First of all, welcome to OL.

You are lucky no one shot you, or that you were not in jail, for "willful contempt in the face of the Court," as opposed to a conditional contempt.

There ain't no such thing as an "objectionist."

Were you under the impression that you were owed knowledge of Ayn?

As far as political elections as a process, this should be a red flag that Objectivism had serious blind spots that prevented, in my opinion, it's influence on a much greater scale.

As to an Objectivist political individual elected, not to my knowledge.

A...

I was elected to a NY City school board with a copy of Atlas Shrugged in my hands at all times, however, that was an election that dealt with proportionally weighted voting. Created some fascinating mathematical combinations that allowed a radical like myself to get elected.

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Thank you for the welcome,

1st, sorry for the typo..."objectivist" vs "objectionist" (lol) ...the state of the union address last night has my mind revolting and now that I found this site I guess I'm typing and posting faster than I proof read...

In regards, to being owed knowledge of Ayn Rand...I have taken numerous political science and economic courses in school and was force fed literary works of just about everything under the sun in an attempt to teach us the varying viewpoints of different governmental structures and theories. I've had to debate the pros and cons of multiple governmental systems and philosophies and explain the differences of various viewpoints. Never once did any instructor in high school or college bring up the name of Ayn Rand and even though her philosophy is often considered as theoretical vs practical application I was astounded that she was never brought up to me. For instance I remember spending a semester debating the differences of Stalinism, Leninism, Marxism, and communism and a month reading and discussing Sun Tzu's The Art of War in another class yet never Ayn Rand...but then again why should that surprise me...Ayn Rand stands against everything that America has become, why would our bureaucratic system teach us how to save humanity by teaching "radical individualism". I guess I just feel cheated that it took 39 years of my life to finally find her logical rational inspiration.

Hey the humor of my Ayn Rand discovery was by googling something like "What to do when your government stomps on its own laws to evoke power and control over you and you no longer care about losing your freedom?" The first result was the definition of Objectivism. Like, I started in my original post, as a rational thinker I realized I snapped and lost my marbles in court, but in the heat of the moment I was willing to get incarcerated just so I could sue the town for punitive damages because the judge blatantly violated my constitutional rights of due process and he knew I was smart enough to call his bluff. Finding Ayn Rand just allowed me to understand that I was not alone in my thinking and get back to a rational thought process. I'm just surprised that her movement hasn't taken a stronger stance after the last decade of societal and economic decay. I'm just glad to have found other believers of moral reform.

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Thank you for the welcome, Like, I started in my original post, as a rational thinker I realized I snapped and lost my marbles in court, but in the heat of the moment I was willing to get incarcerated just so I could sue the town for punitive damages because the judge blatantly violated my constitutional rights of due process and he knew I was smart enough to call his bluff.

Out of curiosity, did you note the "judges" name?

Also, do you recall whether there was a digital tape display recording the proceedings, or, a transcriber?

Finally, did you submit papers, or, a memorandum of law, or some documents that you submitted to the Clerk's office, time and date stamped?

A...

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