Expectations of World War


dennislmay

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Dennis wrote:

In total war the US will expend nearly all of its smart weapons in the opening days or weeks.

END QUOTE??

Oh, come on. First off, I read that an Electro Magnetic Pulse can NOW be generated from the back of ONE pick up truck which can cover thousands of square miles. More pick up trucks is a possibility. A nuclear bomb at stratospheric levels is obsolete.

The depletion of nuclear weapons in an all out war is possible but not probable. The guys in charge of that are as rational and dispassionate as Apollo astronauts.

Peter Taylor

Smart weapons generally refer to conventional weapons. EMP weapons need to be at altitude to affect a large area - thousands of square miles could refer to the size of a county which would work on a city perhaps but not nationwide without having thousands of them - or hundreds in the right places. Stratospheric EMP would be much cheaper to produce than many land based ones. They will likely not use up the atomic bombs but there are few good targets to use them on. If you are fighting nation states that is one thing, if you're fighting splinter groups scattered throughout a populace that is quite a different thing.

I am quite certain the available number of smart weapons is totally inadequate and would be used up in no time. Then it is back to dumb bombs with inadequate numbers of planes to deliver them. Then once we run out of planes we sit at home and wait.

Dennis

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I am quite certain the available number of smart weapons is totally inadequate and would be used up in no time. Then it is back to dumb bombs with inadequate numbers of planes to deliver them. Then once we run out of planes we sit at home and wait.

The latest news items:

Just like in Gulf War I there is an emergency order to upgrade the bunker buster bombs. Only this time I'm sure the guy they called in that time has retired for good by now. He was near retirement last time and had changed career fields when they brought him back in. Hopefully the Air Force has a plan this time.

On the O'Reilly factor last night there was open talk of WWIII starting if Israel goes after the Iranian nuclear weapons program. Besides the war they mentioned the world wide financial collapse that will result when Iran attempts to halt all Mideast oil production in retaliation. A great depression and world war. No good options are seen to prevent the conflict and as always there is no reason to believe the sanctions will work.

Some items that only made the news a minor amount. A second Cuban Missile Crisis is on the horizon with Venezuela intending to play host for missiles aimed at the US. At the same time Obama is planning on reducing nuclear stockpiles well below the amounts the Soviet Union would have deemed acceptable to launch a first strike against. Iran is expected to have missiles ready to hit much of Europe soon and some of US if based in Venezuela. As mentioned in previous posts 3 such missiles used as EMP weapons would effectively send the US back to the stone age and collapse the economy. If launched from disguised commercial vessels [one East coast, one West coast, one Gulf coast] it is unlikely they could be intercepted in time given that we have no real missile defense in place.

Dennis

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. If launched from disguised commercial vessels [one East coast, one West coast, one Gulf coast] it is unlikely they could be intercepted in time given that we have no real missile defense in place.

Dennis

We never did have such a defense. We had a counter offence - mutual assured destruction which only works against an opponent who wants to keep on living. Do Shi'ites want to live? Or do they want to die and go to Paradise to fuck their 72 virgins?

Ba'al Chatzaf

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. If launched from disguised commercial vessels [one East coast, one West coast, one Gulf coast] it is unlikely they could be intercepted in time given that we have no real missile defense in place.

Dennis

We never did have such a defense. We had a counter offence - mutual assured destruction which only works against an opponent who wants to keep on living. Do Shi'ites want to live? Or do they want to die and go to Paradise to fuck their 72 virgins?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Like the saying goes Socialism is for the people, not the socialists - likewise Islamic suicide missions are for the people, not the Islamicists.

Dennis

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I smell insanity. WWIII? Ideas to prevent it, anyone? --Brant

A tall order to prevent it. A profound leadership challenge requiring confronting the many errors which have gotten us to where we are today. Many of challenges are cultural taking generations to overcome but the crisis could be only days, weeks to months away. Extremely optimistic people think the crisis is still a few years away. That kind of optimism seems to come from compartmentalizing problems and not seeing interaction between problems.

It is still possible that the coming world war could be avoided but it would require some extraordinary things to happen.

Dennis

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Brant wrote:

I smell insanity. WWIII? Ideas to prevent it, anyone?

end quote

Dennis May responded:

It is still possible that the coming world war could be avoided but it would require some extraordinary things to happen.

end quote

If Israel strikes Iran alone, what worries me is NOT the obvious coalition of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria, though even that would be a protracted conventional war for Israel. The bigger worry is there are other Islamic states that are posturing to join it: Turkey and Egypt. They may send arms, material and men to Iran even if they do not fire or fly across their own borders into Israel. And if Turkey and Egypt join, could Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan be dragged in by popular, radical Islamic sentiments?

If Obama’s (temporarily) Socialist States of America is reluctantly drawn into the fray to save Israel, what a mess we will have fiscally and domestically. Militarily, we could totally destroy overt resistance conventionally in short order. Shock and awe times ten, would prevail if Obama gave the green light as he did with the shooting of Osama. But could or would we attack our supposed ally, Turkey? Doubtful, unless the Turks were downright crazy.

Ron Paul would say, “Mind our own business.” Would that lessen the threat from Islamic extremists having nuclear weapons? No. Would it lessen the possibility that Israel will not strike. No. The Iranian threat of Middle Eastern hegemony has already threatened Saudi Arabia, and I have no doubt Israel will use their air space to go after Iran.

Prevention? We strike first, overwhelmingly after one more provocation such as inspectors in Iran be denied access to nuclear facilities. I see the irony: we go to war to prevent a bigger war. I wonder what has been cooked up in our War College? I think Israel will go it alone.

Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom, Go in peace and return in peace!

If only that could be.

Peter Taylor

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Brant wrote:

I smell insanity. WWIII? Ideas to prevent it, anyone?

end quote

Dennis May responded:

It is still possible that the coming world war could be avoided but it would require some extraordinary things to happen.

end quote

If Israel strikes Iran alone, what worries me is NOT the obvious coalition of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria, though even that would be a protracted conventional war for Israel. The bigger worry is there are other Islamic states that are posturing to join it: Turkey and Egypt. They may send arms, material and men to Iran even if they do not fire or fly across their own borders into Israel. And if Turkey and Egypt join, could Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan be dragged in by popular, radical Islamic sentiments?

If Obama’s (temporarily) Socialist States of America is reluctantly drawn into the fray to save Israel, what a mess we will have fiscally and domestically. Militarily, we could totally destroy overt resistance conventionally in short order. Shock and awe times ten, would prevail if Obama gave the green light as he did with the shooting of Osama. But could or would we attack our supposed ally, Turkey? Doubtful, unless the Turks were downright crazy.

Ron Paul would say, “Mind our own business.” Would that lessen the threat from Islamic extremists having nuclear weapons? No. Would it lessen the possibility that Israel will not strike. No. The Iranian threat of Middle Eastern hegemony has already threatened Saudi Arabia, and I have no doubt Israel will use their air space to go after Iran.

Prevention? We strike first, overwhelmingly after one more provocation such as inspectors in Iran be denied access to nuclear facilities. I see the irony: we go to war to prevent a bigger war. I wonder what has been cooked up in our War College? I think Israel will go it alone.

Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom, Go in peace and return in peace!

If only that could be.

Peter Taylor

What is allowed to be taught in War Colleges depends upon who the President is at any particular time. Like any government institution their freedom of speech is tightly controlled - even more so since they are military. I am sure many of the things I heard at Squadron Officers School in 1991 cannot be said in today's environment - at least not out in the open.

The policy of pre-emption was well understood and its value recognized in 1991. I don't believe analytical analysis holds much sway with the current administration. Israel will probably have to go it mostly alone with mixed results leading to a slow bleed-out

and a protacted problem. The timing and November elections will make a huge difference on the outcome.

Dennis

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General Dennis (Curtis Le) May wrote:

I am sure many of the things I heard at Squadron Officers School in 1991 cannot be said in today's environment - at least not out in the open.

end quote

Overseas when I was in the military, the four or five elite signal corps guys who were in the command hooch, used to fill us lesser commo guys in on news the Colonel would get. We lived just above them a few feet up a hill. We heard news from around the world that had come to him encrypted, before the American public did. I liked the feeling it gave me, being in the loop, though the spit and polish of the command center was not where I wanted to be. We used to know if tensions were high on the DMZ about ten miles away by how pale the Colonel looked when he stretched his legs outside, or relieved himself in one of the bamboo poles that were pounded into the ground for urinals. Just spread a bit of lime around, and the ground takes care of some of the smell.

I miss being in the loop. And pissing in public.

Peter Taylor

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Brant wrote:

I smell insanity. WWIII? Ideas to prevent it, anyone?

end quote

Dennis May responded:

It is still possible that the coming world war could be avoided but it would require some extraordinary things to happen.

end quote

If Israel strikes Iran alone, what worries me is NOT the obvious coalition of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria, though even that would be a protracted conventional war for Israel. The bigger worry is there are other Islamic states that are posturing to join it: Turkey and Egypt. They may send arms, material and men to Iran even if they do not fire or fly across their own borders into Israel. And if Turkey and Egypt join, could Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan be dragged in by popular, radical Islamic sentiments?

If Obama’s (temporarily) Socialist States of America is reluctantly drawn into the fray to save Israel, what a mess we will have fiscally and domestically. Militarily, we could totally destroy overt resistance conventionally in short order. Shock and awe times ten, would prevail if Obama gave the green light as he did with the shooting of Osama. But could or would we attack our supposed ally, Turkey? Doubtful, unless the Turks were downright crazy.

Ron Paul would say, “Mind our own business.” Would that lessen the threat from Islamic extremists having nuclear weapons? No. Would it lessen the possibility that Israel will not strike. No. The Iranian threat of Middle Eastern hegemony has already threatened Saudi Arabia, and I have no doubt Israel will use their air space to go after Iran.

Prevention? We strike first, overwhelmingly after one more provocation such as inspectors in Iran be denied access to nuclear facilities. I see the irony: we go to war to prevent a bigger war. I wonder what has been cooked up in our War College? I think Israel will go it alone.

Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom, Go in peace and return in peace!

If only that could be.

Peter Taylor

What is allowed to be taught in War Colleges depends upon who the President is at any particular time. Like any government institution their freedom of speech is tightly controlled - even more so since they are military. I am sure many of the things I heard at Squadron Officers School in 1991 cannot be said in today's environment - at least not out in the open.

The policy of pre-emption was well understood and its value recognized in 1991. I don't believe analytical analysis holds much sway with the current administration. Israel will probably have to go it mostly alone with mixed results leading to a slow bleed-out

and a protacted problem. The timing and November elections will make a huge difference on the outcome.

Dennis

Brant wrote:

I smell insanity. WWIII? Ideas to prevent it, anyone?

end quote

Dennis May responded:

It is still possible that the coming world war could be avoided but it would require some extraordinary things to happen.

end quote

If Israel strikes Iran alone, what worries me is NOT the obvious coalition of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria, though even that would be a protracted conventional war for Israel. The bigger worry is there are other Islamic states that are posturing to join it: Turkey and Egypt. They may send arms, material and men to Iran even if they do not fire or fly across their own borders into Israel. And if Turkey and Egypt join, could Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan be dragged in by popular, radical Islamic sentiments?

If Obama’s (temporarily) Socialist States of America is reluctantly drawn into the fray to save Israel, what a mess we will have fiscally and domestically. Militarily, we could totally destroy overt resistance conventionally in short order. Shock and awe times ten, would prevail if Obama gave the green light as he did with the shooting of Osama. But could or would we attack our supposed ally, Turkey? Doubtful, unless the Turks were downright crazy.

Ron Paul would say, “Mind our own business.” Would that lessen the threat from Islamic extremists having nuclear weapons? No. Would it lessen the possibility that Israel will not strike. No. The Iranian threat of Middle Eastern hegemony has already threatened Saudi Arabia, and I have no doubt Israel will use their air space to go after Iran.

Prevention? We strike first, overwhelmingly after one more provocation such as inspectors in Iran be denied access to nuclear facilities. I see the irony: we go to war to prevent a bigger war. I wonder what has been cooked up in our War College? I think Israel will go it alone.

Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom, Go in peace and return in peace!

If only that could be.

Peter Taylor

What is allowed to be taught in War Colleges depends upon who the President is at any particular time. Like any government institution their freedom of speech is tightly controlled - even more so since they are military. I am sure many of the things I heard at Squadron Officers School in 1991 cannot be said in today's environment - at least not out in the open.

The policy of pre-emption was well understood and its value recognized in 1991. I don't believe analytical analysis holds much sway with the current administration. Israel will probably have to go it mostly alone with mixed results leading to a slow bleed-out

and a protacted problem. The timing and November elections will make a huge difference on the outcome.

Dennis

The latest I read would involved a 100 plane raid flying 1000 miles in hostile airspace. (mostly over Iraq). This will require two midair fuellings per plane. Unfortunately Israel has only 7 KC tankers which are not enough. So the Israelis may have a stymie there. Apparently one of their famous "surgical strikes" involving a hand full of planes is not going to be enough to carry the bunker busters necessary to put Iran's nuclear effort out of business. In addition, Iran has missiles capable of hitting Israel (from Iran) plus their client terrors in Lebanon can also launch rocket strikes from nearer in. If the Israelis are going to undertake this, they are going to bleed. The Israelis cannot match the famous 1981 raid on Sadam Hussein's reactor. That was a single target above ground. The Iranians have built their nuclear facilities to withstand heavy bombing, even from U.S. forces.

The situation is very dicey at this time. Unfortunately, if the Israelis wait, the situation could get even more perilous for them. I would not want to be an Israeli military strategist at this moment.

(joke mode on). Of course if things get really really bad the Israelis can deploy the Ark of the Covenant. Even so, the results could be very nasty. (joke mode off).

Seriously, things are looking kind of fraught with danger at this point. But then again, we are in a dangerous world right now.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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General Dennis (Curtis Le) May wrote:

I am sure many of the things I heard at Squadron Officers School in 1991 cannot be said in today's environment - at least not out in the open.

end quote

Overseas when I was in the military, the four or five elite signal corps guys who were in the command hooch, used to fill us lesser commo guys in on news the Colonel would get. We lived just above them a few feet up a hill. We heard news from around the world that had come to him encrypted, before the American public did. I liked the feeling it gave me, being in the loop, though the spit and polish of the command center was not where I wanted to be. We used to know if tensions were high on the DMZ about ten miles away by how pale the Colonel looked when he stretched his legs outside, or relieved himself in one of the bamboo poles that were pounded into the ground for urinals. Just spread a bit of lime around, and the ground takes care of some of the smell.

I miss being in the loop. And pissing in public.

Peter Taylor

Having been in the loop for a while gives you an interesting perspective on how misinformed many people are concerning historical events and what really goes on being much different than public perception. The military is much more aware of public corruption and corrupt officials than they want those officials to know. After all they run intelligence gathering services as well.

Dennis

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Glenn Beck went to Rome and then Greece to see first-hand their mess. He just came back.

He believes we already are at the start of WWIII. It just hasn't been declared.

Are We in the Midst of World War III? Beck Thinks So After His Eye-Opening Trip to Rome, Athens…

by Tiffany Gabbay

The Blaze

February 20, 2012

From the article:

One of the main points that Glenn took from his weekend in Europe was the overriding sense that we are currently in the middle of World War III. This time, however, the war is being fought with financial weapons of mass destruction and the goal is to attain power, money and influence. Below is a clip from Monday’s GBTV program in which Glenn explains the role that Middle East and oil will play in the conflict ahead.

People don't like his religious focus, and I admit I have been getting antsy from a bit of overkill in that department, but I believe his analysis of world events is more accurate than anything else I see in the popular media.

As to how religion is involved, his comment about the Twelvers in Iran applies equally as well--i.e., it doesn't matter that we don't believe it. What matters is that lots and lots of people believe it. It is a mistake to ignore this.

But, as in the quote above, he doesn't attribute WWIII to religion. He attributes it to the oldest reasons on earth: money and power.

According to his analysis, the start is with the current financial mess. The guns will follow. Here's a short video that gives a pretty good overview of why so much bad stuff is happening specifically in the countries surrounding the Mediterranean Sea:

<object width="400" height="254"><param name="movie" value="http://web.gbtv.com//shared/flash/video/share/ObjectEmbedFrame.swf?width=400&height=254&content_id=20101583&property=gbtv" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="scale" value="noscale" /><param name="salign" value="tl" /><embed src="http://web.gbtv.com//shared/flash/video/share/ObjectEmbedFrame.swf?width=400&height=254&content_id=20101583&property=gbtv" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" window="transparent" width="400" height="254" scale="noscale" salign ="tl" /> </object>

In another video on the above link, he talks about ruined countries like Greece selling off their stuff, which might even get to their energy companies. That is why they are being ruined. Sack and plunder before the guns come.

Michael

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Brant wrote:

I smell insanity. WWIII? Ideas to prevent it, anyone?

end quote

Dennis May responded:

It is still possible that the coming world war could be avoided but it would require some extraordinary things to happen.

end quote

If Israel strikes Iran alone, what worries me is NOT the obvious coalition of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria, though even that would be a protracted conventional war for Israel. The bigger worry is there are other Islamic states that are posturing to join it: Turkey and Egypt. They may send arms, material and men to Iran even if they do not fire or fly across their own borders into Israel. And if Turkey and Egypt join, could Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan be dragged in by popular, radical Islamic sentiments?

If Obama’s (temporarily) Socialist States of America is reluctantly drawn into the fray to save Israel, what a mess we will have fiscally and domestically. Militarily, we could totally destroy overt resistance conventionally in short order. Shock and awe times ten, would prevail if Obama gave the green light as he did with the shooting of Osama. But could or would we attack our supposed ally, Turkey? Doubtful, unless the Turks were downright crazy.

Ron Paul would say, “Mind our own business.” Would that lessen the threat from Islamic extremists having nuclear weapons? No. Would it lessen the possibility that Israel will not strike. No. The Iranian threat of Middle Eastern hegemony has already threatened Saudi Arabia, and I have no doubt Israel will use their air space to go after Iran.

Prevention? We strike first, overwhelmingly after one more provocation such as inspectors in Iran be denied access to nuclear facilities. I see the irony: we go to war to prevent a bigger war. I wonder what has been cooked up in our War College? I think Israel will go it alone.

Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom, Go in peace and return in peace!

If only that could be.

Peter Taylor

What is allowed to be taught in War Colleges depends upon who the President is at any particular time. Like any government institution their freedom of speech is tightly controlled - even more so since they are military. I am sure many of the things I heard at Squadron Officers School in 1991 cannot be said in today's environment - at least not out in the open.

The policy of pre-emption was well understood and its value recognized in 1991. I don't believe analytical analysis holds much sway with the current administration. Israel will probably have to go it mostly alone with mixed results leading to a slow bleed-out

and a protacted problem. The timing and November elections will make a huge difference on the outcome.

Dennis

Brant wrote:

I smell insanity. WWIII? Ideas to prevent it, anyone?

end quote

Dennis May responded:

It is still possible that the coming world war could be avoided but it would require some extraordinary things to happen.

end quote

If Israel strikes Iran alone, what worries me is NOT the obvious coalition of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria, though even that would be a protracted conventional war for Israel. The bigger worry is there are other Islamic states that are posturing to join it: Turkey and Egypt. They may send arms, material and men to Iran even if they do not fire or fly across their own borders into Israel. And if Turkey and Egypt join, could Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan be dragged in by popular, radical Islamic sentiments?

If Obama’s (temporarily) Socialist States of America is reluctantly drawn into the fray to save Israel, what a mess we will have fiscally and domestically. Militarily, we could totally destroy overt resistance conventionally in short order. Shock and awe times ten, would prevail if Obama gave the green light as he did with the shooting of Osama. But could or would we attack our supposed ally, Turkey? Doubtful, unless the Turks were downright crazy.

Ron Paul would say, “Mind our own business.” Would that lessen the threat from Islamic extremists having nuclear weapons? No. Would it lessen the possibility that Israel will not strike. No. The Iranian threat of Middle Eastern hegemony has already threatened Saudi Arabia, and I have no doubt Israel will use their air space to go after Iran.

Prevention? We strike first, overwhelmingly after one more provocation such as inspectors in Iran be denied access to nuclear facilities. I see the irony: we go to war to prevent a bigger war. I wonder what has been cooked up in our War College? I think Israel will go it alone.

Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom, Go in peace and return in peace!

If only that could be.

Peter Taylor

What is allowed to be taught in War Colleges depends upon who the President is at any particular time. Like any government institution their freedom of speech is tightly controlled - even more so since they are military. I am sure many of the things I heard at Squadron Officers School in 1991 cannot be said in today's environment - at least not out in the open.

The policy of pre-emption was well understood and its value recognized in 1991. I don't believe analytical analysis holds much sway with the current administration. Israel will probably have to go it mostly alone with mixed results leading to a slow bleed-out

and a protacted problem. The timing and November elections will make a huge difference on the outcome.

Dennis

The latest I read would involved a 100 plane raid flying 1000 miles in hostile airspace. (mostly over Iraq). This will require two midair fuellings per plane. Unfortunately Israel has only 7 KC tankers which are not enough. So the Israelis may have a stymie there. Apparently one of their famous "surgical strikes" involving a hand full of planes is not going to be enough to carry the bunker busters necessary to put Iran's nuclear effort out of business. In addition, Iran has missiles capable of hitting Israel (from Iran) plus their client terrors in Lebanon can also launch rocket strikes from nearer in. If the Israelis are going to undertake this, they are going to bleed. The Israelis cannot match the famous 1981 raid on Sadam Hussein's reactor. That was a single target above ground. The Iranians have built their nuclear facilities to withstand heavy bombing, even from U.S. forces.

The situation is very dicey at this time. Unfortunately, if the Israelis wait, the situation could get even more perilous for them. I would not want to be an Israeli military strategist at this moment.

(joke mode on). Of course if things get really really bad the Israelis can deploy the Ark of the Covenant. Even so, the results could be very nasty. (joke mode off).

Seriously, thinks are looking kind of fraught with danger at this point.

Ba'al Chatzaf

One should not forget the weapons secreted out of Iraq to Syria and the weapons which just turned up missing in Libya. I'm sure much of it is now on the borders of Israel being readied for use.

There is the long shot of nuclear bunker buster bombs which the US has discussed making before. It would not be difficult to fit a nuke to an existing bunker buster. If small enough not that much radiation will escape. If Israel goes that route they will be effective but then war will happen for sure.

Dennis

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One should not forget the weapons secreted out of Iraq to Syria and the weapons which just turned up missing in Libya. I'm sure much of it is now on the borders of Israel being readied for use.

There is the long shot of nuclear bunker buster bombs which the US has discussed making before. It would not be difficult to fit a nuke to an existing bunker buster. If small enough not that much radiation will escape. If Israel goes that route they will be effective but then war will happen for sure.

Dennis

If Israel undertakes a war, there will be reprisal. Israel is a country the size of the state of New Jersey and a population of between 5 and 6 million. What worries me the most is the Israelis could find themselves in a Sampson scenario. If you recall the story of Sampson from the Book of Judges, he got himself in a pickle. The only way out was for him to destroy the Phillistines but it was done in such a way that he himself perished. I think Israel could deconstruct Iran, but it might mean its own destruction. That does worry me some.

The U.S. is too large and too strong (even in its current decrepit state) to be destroyed, Not so, the State of Israel. If the U.S. will not go along, Israel is screwed or must sit it out.

This is not the triumphant day of the Six Day War. The enemies of Israel have become militarily strong and while they could not defeat Israel in a limited war, they could destroy her in a total war.

If wonder if anyone in Israel is reading Tom Paine translated to Hebrew אלו הם זמנים שמנסים נשמות של גברים ... These are the times that try men's souls....

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Thanks for the link to Glenn Beck Michael. “Whoever has money during the coming depression will change the world.” Soros will. The Saudi's will. Our money will be hyperinflated.

Dennis May wrote:

There is the long shot of nuclear bunker buster bombs which the US has discussed making before. It would not be difficult to fit a nuke to an existing bunker buster. If small enough not that much radiation will escape. If Israel goes that route they will be effective but then war will happen for sure.

end quote

Now I am getting creeped out. Than Beck video was persuasive. Dennis is persuasive. I wish I had bought gold about three years ago. I wish GWB was back in the White House.

Peter Taylor

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One should not forget the weapons secreted out of Iraq to Syria and the weapons which just turned up missing in Libya. I'm sure much of it is now on the borders of Israel being readied for use. There is the long shot of nuclear bunker buster bombs which the US has discussed making before. It would not be difficult to fit a nuke to an existing bunker buster. If small enough not that much radiation will escape. If Israel goes that route they will be effective but then war will happen for sure. Dennis
If Israel undertakes a war, there will be reprisal. Israel is a country the size of the state of New Jersey and a population of between 5 and 6 million. What worries me the most is the Israelis could find themselves in a Sampson scenario. If you recall the story of Sampson from the Book of Judges, he got himself in a pickle. The only way out was for him to destroy the Phillistines but it was done in such a way that he himself perished. I think Israel could deconstruct Iran, but it might mean its own destruction. That does worry me some. The U.S. is too large and too strong (even in its current decrepit state) to be destroyed, Not so, the State of Israel. If the U.S. will not go along, Israel is screwed or must sit it out. This is not the triumphant day of the Six Day War. The enemies of Israel have become militarily strong and while they could not defeat Israel in a limited war, they could destroy her in a total war. If wonder if anyone in Israel is reading Tom Paine translated to Hebrew אלו הם זמנים שמנסים נשמות של גברים ... These are the times that try men's souls.... Ba'al Chatzaf

The US is too large to be destroyed by a conventional attack. It is not too large to be destroyed with a series of unconventional attacks and internal sabotage. 3 EMP bombs and the economy collapses with rioting and starvation to follow immediately thereafter. You don't have to look very hard to imagine the kinds of internal sabotage we can expect.

If Israel thinks it is going down for good all the major Islamic holy sites will be nuclear targeted in retaliation. If things get that bad we will find out what kind of government we have 1/8" under the surface.

Invest in Ramen Noodles!

Dennis

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Ba’al wrote:

The U.S. is too large and too strong (even in its current decrepit state) to be destroyed, Not so, the State of Israel. If the U.S. will not go along, Israel is screwed or must sit it out.

end quote

Do you think Israel would go nuclear if another holocaust is occurring? I am sure their underground shelters are extensive. I saw a news story about them many years ago, when scuds were raining down. To subsist in shelters is a crappy way to live. But you live. Some Jews survived the Warsaw ghetto. That John Hershey novel, “The Wall” tells the tale of men and women who lived through the horror. I must have read that book 40 years ago and I can’t forget it.

I heard there was a shelter under a Mall in Burlingame or was in San Mateo in California around 1970? While I was there I decided to see for myself. I drove into the parking garage of the Mall and went down thinking it would be a few levels down. I drove down, level after level, for a dozen layers or more. I got to a place where there was stuff stacked in the way of cars, so I turned around, but the ramps kept going lower.

About a month afterwards there was an article in the paper that said supplies in the nuke shelter were going bad and would need to be replaced. That was what I saw stacked in my way. One of the boxes had been broken open and had rolls of bandages in it. There was no security trying to stop me. Oh, and it was hot down there.

This sentiment is objectionable to many Jews but I am sure it was NOT a good idea to ever establish Israel as a “Jewish State.” But that is what now exists. It should have been a secular state, populated by transplanted Jews and indigenous Muslims and Christians with the separation of church and state like America.

Refugee Jews have a home here, but they would be under our Constitution, free to practice their religion, and that is more righteous. The median IQ of the United States would rise.

We should store Ramen Noodles, Dennis? Not a bad choice for survival food. Minute Rice has a 2 pack of microwave-able white, brown, or flavored rice that is excellent and you do not need to add water. Very tasty. I have been eating the BRAT diet because of my stomach ailment: banana, rice, applesauce, toast. I have had all four today. Now I am thinking about the two pound Whitman's Sampler I got my wife for Valentines Day. Her ruby ring has been fitted and is waiting in the Jewelry Store until we are better.

Peter Taylor

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Ba’al wrote:

The U.S. is too large and too strong (even in its current decrepit state) to be destroyed, Not so, the State of Israel. If the U.S. will not go along, Israel is screwed or must sit it out.

end quote

Do you think Israel would go nuclear if another holocaust is occurring? I am sure their underground shelters are extensive. I saw a news story about them many years ago, when scuds were raining down. To subsist in shelters is a crappy way to live. But you live. Some Jews survived the Warsaw ghetto. That John Hershey novel, “The Wall” tells the tale of men and women who lived through the horror. I must have read that book 40 years ago and I can’t forget it.

I heard there was a shelter under a Mall in Burlingame or was in San Mateo in California around 1970? While I was there I decided to see for myself. I drove into the parking garage of the Mall and went down thinking it would be a few levels down. I drove down, level after level, for a dozen layers or more. I got to a place where there was stuff stacked in the way of cars, so I turned around, but the ramps kept going lower.

About a month afterwards there was an article in the paper that said supplies in the nuke shelter were going bad and would need to be replaced. That was what I saw stacked in my way. One of the boxes had been broken open and had rolls of bandages in it. There was no security trying to stop me. Oh, and it was hot down there.

This sentiment is objectionable to many Jews but I am sure it was NOT a good idea to ever establish Israel as a “Jewish State.” But that is what now exists. It should have been a secular state, populated by transplanted Jews and indigenous Muslims and Christians with the separation of church and state like America.

Refugee Jews have a home here, but they would be under our Constitution, free to practice their religion, and that is more righteous. The median IQ of the United States would rise.

We should store Ramen Noodles, Dennis? Not a bad choice for survival food. Minute Rice has a 2 pack of microwave-able white, brown, or flavored rice that is excellent and you do not need to add water. Very tasty. I have been eating the BRAT diet because of my stomach ailment: banana, rice, applesauce, toast. I have had all four today. Now I am thinking about the two pound Whitman's Sampler I got my wife for Valentines Day. Her ruby ring has been fitted and is waiting in the Jewelry Store until we are better.

Peter Taylor

Glenn Beck has been talking about storing food for a few years. I don't have any specific advice other than I agree it is a good idea. Cost versus long storage life seems the main tradeoff. If you have ever seen an old World Book Encylopedia [1963 or 1964] picture of how much food a family eats in a year you will quickly realize there is little chance you are ready if it hits the fan. If you are ready and anyone knows it then you will have the starving beating down your door. The price of gasoline and diesel drives the price of food. Printing money is causing fuel and food inflation. A price shock on fuel will cause starvation in many nations and hardship everywhere.

Dennis

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Hoi polloi in the U.S. are obviously being prepared for the next justifiable war the U.S. will fight. This thread is a very small example of what is generally going on. I suspect the fires are burning hotter in Israel.

--Brant

bring on the bastards!

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Refugee Jews have a home here, but they would be under our Constitution, free to practice their religion, and that is more righteous. The median IQ of the United States would rise.

Have you ever heard of the ship St. Louis?

See: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005267

Do you know who kept the Jewish passengers from coming ashore here in the U.S? That "friend" of the Jews, FDR.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Nuclear bunker buster:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_bunker_buster

A point I have not heard discussed but once - a few days

ago I heard that Iran is doing explosive testing in contained

vessels in support of hydrocode modeling. I assume they

are using depleted uranium and testing their ability to do

spherical implosions. If true this is pretty much the last step

other than having enough fissile material. They may choose

to use more fissile material and go the gun route instead of

spherical implosion route if they have problems with spherical

implosion or their spherical design takes up more diameter than

they have for the missiles they intend to put it on. In any case

they could be days or weeks away once they have a handle on

spherical implosion. If any of the tricks have leaked on how

to reduce the amount of fissile material required - they may

have enough material for several bombs.

Dennis

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Last night on the Mark R Levin radio show a special forces guy called in and mentioned that Israel could put bunker buster bombs on missiles and bypass the aircraft range and refueling issues. That might be difficult for the largest size bunker busters and the smallest ones don't penetrate very deep. Mating small bunker busters with nukes and putting them on missiles would give capability and range but would leak more radiation than a deep bunker buster with nukes. Israel does not have the big planes to haul the large ones in any case [modify commercial, refueling or cargo aircaft?]. The special forces guy seemed to think Iran would have air defenses precluding the easy use of aircraft in this kind of attack. He implied it was more likely secret capabilities or missiles would be used instead of a straight forward use of aircraft. In any case special forces ground personel would verify the damage if possible.

Dennis

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Dennis May wrote:

In any case special forces ground personnel would verify the damage if possible.

end quote

Israeli Special Forces could also cause the damage IN the ground. The recipe? Start by hitting Iran’s offensive and retaliatory strengths, stirring constantly. Bring to a boil. Repeat air strikes. Sanitize the ground around suspected sites and wait for it to cool. Put commandos and materials on the ground. Double check your ingredients. Pour barrels of liquid explosives down the cracks in the ground. Set it off. Wait for the area to cool. Repeat if necessary.

Voila! A perfect soufflé!

Peter Taylor

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Dennis May wrote:

In any case special forces ground personnel would verify the damage if possible.

end quote

Israeli Special Forces could also cause the damage IN the ground. The recipe? Start by hitting Iran’s offensive and retaliatory strengths, stirring constantly. Bring to a boil. Repeat air strikes. Sanitize the ground around suspected sites and wait for it to cool. Put commandos and materials on the ground. Double check your ingredients. Pour barrels of liquid explosives down the cracks in the ground. Set it off. Wait for the area to cool. Repeat if necessary.

Voila! A perfect soufflé!

Peter Taylor

That is a lot of explosives and lots of time required on the ground to blow it up using ground forces. Iran has a huge army - I would hate to be on the ground there very long.

Here is something I've never heard talked about - truck size shaped charge bunker busters. Drive the truck or tank sized device on site, blow it up, repeat. It might take several shots at the same holes before you penetrate adequately. I suspect such a weapon would have to be very large to reach the required depth. The large l/d of bunker busters within a certain velocity range gets them to the depth needed. A shape charge would burn its way through with large l/d jets of metal. Once there is a hole you could pour in the liquid explosives.

Dennis

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