The weather


pippi

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Do any of the assorted rain clouds on this forum ever start their own thread or post an original thought or do they just go around piddling on everyone else's parade? If the case is the latter, which it seems to be, why the heck do they bother?

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Pippi,

If you ever discover the answer, be sure to let me know.

I have a speculation, but it's only that.

I once asked a singer I was producing in Brazil why a certain person we knew lied so much. He looked at me incredulously, as if not believing I couldn't see the obvious, and said, "Because he can't not lie."

I blinked and said, "Oh."

:)

But if you look deeper at the problem, the snark is not all bad. It flares and then the discussion progresses, then it flares, and then the discussion progresses, then... (and so on). Believe it or not, I believe the folks here like each other--really care about each other, even as they sometimes snap each other's head off.

This reminds me of a documentary I once saw about foxes. You know. Those cute little animals who are so very clever. Here's what I saw.

The male and female went out hunting together, leaving the young 'uns behind. The male did all the hard work of killing another animal. Then he settled down for his red, messy feast. Out of nowhere, the female attacked him like there was no tomorrow. It was nasty. Teeth bared, snapping, growling, and outright going in for the kill.

The male fought back, but finally backed off and the female took the carcass. She carried it back to the cubs.

The closest one, on seeing the carcass in her mouth, viciously attacked her as if he wanted to seriously maim her or worse. She growled and yapped back, dropped the carcass and backed off. He dug in and would not let any of the other cubs near as he ate, snarling and snapping like he was rabid when they got too close.

After he ate a bit, his mother suddenly came down hard on him like a ton of bricks and snatched up the carcass. She carried if over to another cub, who proceeded to attack her like a crazed animal. She snarled at him, dropped the carcass and backed off. After he ate a bit, the whole thing repeated and on it went until all the cubs had been fed.

After attacking the last cub and snatching the carcass back from him, she finally ate.

I saw that before I ever even thought about opening an Internet discussion forum. Back then I thought, wow, that fox family is one where tough love is the rule.

Now, look around. Here we are and what do you see?

Do you believe in portends? Or is it just the nature of the beast?

:)

Michael

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excellent story!

I am not a writer or much of a thinker unfortunately, so can I ask you - is the point of your story finding truth after second handers have found the gristle, feasted on it, and were hungry because they never ate anything of substance?

ugh it's true isnt it?-and not only here :(

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Tough love on OL?

Interesting, as this parallels some thoughts I've had.

Why the need to 'attack' (in all its variants) those who are closer to you, ideologically, than your neighbor, your work-mates, your fellow countrymen, and even (often) your spouse?

The devil is in the details, and that difference between one O'ist and the next, may be infinitesimal, looked at objectively. The fundaments are in place, even in those who claim to be ex-, quasi-, neo-O'ists; the fractions of separation are meaningless in the grand scheme, compared to everyone around us daily.

Love may hold the answer. :rolleyes:

(Yes,I mean it, and I'm not big on 'lurv'.)

Here's one from N. Branden: "Often you are most intolerant in your lover [substitute 'another Objectivist'] with those qualities you have disowned in yourself."

So, one has to love, or be close to, or feel an affinity and empathy for,- in order to disregard, and be impatient/intolerant, with.

(Bit of an eye-opener this has been, reviewing my past intimate relationships!)

Here we are, individualists all, bound by a common idea and purpose, having followed not too dissimilar paths to this point and place - and we observe ourselves (strengths and frailties, progress, and regress) in each other. Humanly, how can anyone stand it!

I assure you... it's love.

Tony

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Here's another facet of the jewel that is our human fox-family.

It's a TED talk by Brené Brown called "The power of vulnerability."

As given in the TED notes on Brown's page, she is a research professor who "studies vulnerability, courage, authenticity, and shame." I suspect a lot of what she says in this talk explains the "tough love" we see around us.

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First a quibble. Brown says that connection is our whole reason for being here. I don't agree. I think it's a critical component of human life, but not at all the whole shebang. Whatever, though. Since when am I going to agree 100% with anyone, especially in an area like this? The trick is to grasp the good and leave the bad behind.

My favorite quote from that talk is the following:

As it turns out, we can't practice compassion with other people if we can't treat ourselves kindly.

I think this is the plight of many people attracted to Ayn Rand. It's only a suspicion, but I base it on my experience and noticing those around me.

It works like this--at least with me. While growing up, I was often mistreated for the very things I felt were right--things that I thought would make others proud of me. This means doing some independent thinking and stating it clearly, doing the very best I could at something when most people around me were just getting by, asking very inconvenient questions--but with the sincere intent of trying to understand as opposed to playing gotcha, and so on. I would do these things and get chastised for them. Who the hell did I think I was? That would sting and I would start to feel that there was something wrong with me despite the unfairness. I certainly didn't want to hurt anyone.

That is a strong root of shame.

Ayn Rand called it sanction of the victim and accepting unearned guilt. When I discovered that, it was like a door opened and the sunlight came into my soul.

But a lot of my feelings of shame didn't go away.They just went deeper underground into my subconscious. Deep negative feelings take a long time to undo.

I'm learning now that there is even a physical reason for this. Feelings like deep shame accumulate an increasing number of dendrite and axon synapses in the brain as they are fed input (including thinking), thus the interconnected areas become thicker and blood flow lights them up under brain scans. It's like practicing a musical instrument. The habits become automatic after a while.

You literally have to starve these negative feelings until they atrophy. (Saying this and doing it are worlds apart, but that's for another discussion.)

One thing also didn't go away. I no longer consciously trusted people as a default, even as my subconscious continued to be as gullible as all get-out and I hungered for people who "got" me. This has created a lot of inner conflict over time.

Frankly, I find it natural to snap at people who don't get me when I detect it. God knows I have done enough of this. I believe others who have had similar experiences to mine find it natural, also. The forum behavior of many people seems to bear my speculation out.

A while back I decided to change that. I didn't like myself when I got snarky and ever since, I have been working hard on keeping a tight rein on this habit. When I am going full blast, then stop and try to see an issue from the eyes of people I am talking to, it's surprising how easy it is to conclude that they don't see things from the perspective I do. My snapping at them is often based on an unfair presumption that they know what's in my mind at that moment. Having done that a lot, I am not so critical of it when I see others do it. I know (or at least strongly suspect I know) where they are coming from.

(I still tend to snap back when attacked, though. I'm working on changing it, but that one is often bigger than me. :) )

I have also found a benefit to cutting down on the nastiness. I learned in art a long time ago that the more you use an effect, the less effect it has. This is perfectly human, too. Notice how easy it is to become so used to a bad smell that you only notice it when someone just arrives and gags. So a harsh comment from a person who is usually upbeat will carry far, far more weight than one from a person who is snarky as a rule.

Anyway, I have a default position that has remained unchanged from my youth. (God knows how, but it's true.) Despite all I have been through, I believe people are basically good. My conscious distrust screams "No!" at that notion, but my gullible sappy subconscious takes great comfort in it.

To make peace with myself, I have noticed the monkey-wrench in the works and remind myself of it often. We all see the same facts through different story-lenses. That leads to conflicts. I know very few people who actively and consciously pursue evil because that's what they value. Most everyone I see thinks they are trying to do good, even when they clash with others. That means to me that most of us are all essentially good people underneath. We just need to get our stories straight.

In that spirit, I want to suggest something to any reader who resonates with this. Invite is actually a better word than suggest. I invite you. Be kind to yourself today. Even if it is only one kind thing you do. You deserve it and you are worthy of it.

That's the way it's supposed to be.

Michael

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> Frankly, I find it natural to snap at people who don't get me when I detect it. God knows I have done enough of this. I believe others who have had similar experiences to mine find it natural, also. The forum behavior of many people seems to bear my speculation out. A while back I decided to change that. I didn't like myself when I got snarky and ever since, I have been working hard on keeping a tight rein on this habit.

...I have also found a benefit to cutting down on the nastiness. I learned in art a long time ago that the more you use an effect, the less effect it has. ...Notice how easy it is to become so used to a bad smell that you only notice it when someone just arrives and gags. So a harsh comment from a person who is usually upbeat will carry far, far more weight than one from a person who is snarky as a rule.

...Despite all I have been through, I believe people are basically good....I know very few people who actively and consciously pursue evil because that's what they value. [MSK]

You make many great points in post 5, Michael. [Forgive me for condensing and ellipsis.]

> I still tend to snap back when attacked, though. I'm working on changing it, but that one is often bigger than me. :)

Me too. I think we all fire back that way.

If a climate of trust, benevolence, supportiveness, friendship is created over time then that becomes far less likely.

I think it's best to start off treating people with kindness, gentleness, and civility. You can always stop doing that if you are met repeatedly with hostility or contempt or malice or mean-spiritedness. I say repeatedly, because anyone can have a bad day or thread or 'see red' on a particular hot button topic.

(I haven't had a chance to listen to the TED thing all the way through yet. I haven't yet listened to one. I think it's because I prefer to read things at my own pace rather than listen to them.)

Edited by Philip Coates
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Phil,

Story time again.

You have probably heard it before. It's an old one about the scorpion and the frog.

A scorpion wanted to cross a river, but he could not swim. So he asked a frog if he could ride across piggy-back.

The frog replied, "You're crazy. You'll sting me out in the river and I'll die."

"That would be foolish of me, don't you think?" asked the scorpion. "If you die crossing the river, I will drown."

The frog thought about it. Then he said, "That makes sense. Hop on."

So the scorpion crawled onto the frog's back.. The frog jumped into the river and started swimming. Halfway across, the scorpion stung him. As the poison painfully entered his bloodstream, he cried, "Now we will both die. That means you will die, too. Why did you sting me?"

The scorpion said, "I know we will die. But I'm a scorpion. My nature is to sting. That's what I do."

And they both died.

The end.

I think the benevolent community thing is a great idea, but I also think it's going to take some time and patience.

And I hope we are not all scorpions...

Michael

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Here's something to go along with that fox story I gave above.

Check this out:

Fox Shoots Hunter

Jonathon M. Seidl

The Blaze

January 14, 2011

From the article:

A Belarus man is in the hospital with a leg wound after a fox he was hunting got revenge and shot the man with his own gun.

. . .

Reuters says the hunter approached the fox after having shot it from a distance. Seeing the fox was wounded, the hunter tried to finish off the animal with the butt of his rifle. That's when the two scuffled, allowing the furry creature to make its move.

"The animal fiercely resisted and in the struggle accidentally pulled the trigger with its paw," one prosecutor was quoted as saying.

. . .

And yes, the fox did get away.

Now that's as good a fox story as I can think of.

Man, the metaphors and under-the-surface connections are swirling in my mind, starting with certain vixens in O-Land and even Fox News...

:)

Michael

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