You Are Not Your Brain


anthony

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(shrug...) So what's new about this?

I found this out for myself decades ago.

(quote from video, emphasis mine...)

"The brain puts out the call, we all acknowledge this.

The brain is the passive part of existence.

The brain puts things [thoughts] into our consciousness,

but it is the active mind that makes CHOICES about WHETHER to listen and HOW to listen."

Jeez... I'm glad someone else finally got this besides just me. :wink:

Greg

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If your mind exists where is it located, what is it made of and what are its laws of operation. Also indicate how someone other than you can locate and detect your mind.

e e

How does person A determine what person B's "true self" Does a true self show up on any operative scan? If not, how do we know there is a "true self".

Up to this point people we have seen the brain and glands of other people. To my knowledge no one has ever seen the mind of another person by objective and quantifiable means.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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(shrug...) So what's new about this?

I found this out for myself decades ago.

(quote from video, emphasis mine...)

"The brain puts out the call, we all acknowledge this.

The brain is the passive part of existence.you

The brain puts things [thoughts] into our consciousness,

but it is the active mind that makes CHOICES about WHETHER to listen and HOW to listen."

Jeez... I'm glad someone else finally got this besides just me. :wink:

.

Have you ever seen a real time scan of your brain's activity? It is anything but passive. It is active electrically and chemically.

Has anyone ever by purely and objective means detected a mind in a body other than his? If so, please give give reference to a properly refereed scientific journal article.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Well worth half an hour...

I am my physical corpus. And that is all I am. That is all anyone other than me can detect, observe and measure. Everyone of my thoughts are electrochemical events and processes that happen inside my skull and are inductively detectable by scan or by electrical measurement made at my scalp.

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Well worth half an hour...

Thank you Tony, well worth more than one listen. The 'healthy advocate' part reminds me of Nathaniel Branden when he told us that when we were very young and suffering there was nobody there. But now, you are there, you can be there for your younger selves, give them the understanding they need, the perspective of an older kinder and objective adult self. He was awakening an internal healthy advocate who can rewire the damage. I cannot tell you how important this was for me, to be able to show kindness to myself, to quiet the angry and self depreciating voices. To learn how to do this is an enormous gift to yourself. Well, if you need it that is. I like the mindfulness message also.

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Has anyone ever by purely and objective means detected a mind in a body other than his? If so, please give give reference to a properly refereed scientific journal article.

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”

Blaise Pascal

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Has anyone ever by purely and objective means detected a mind in a body other than his? If so, please give give reference to a properly refereed scientific journal article.

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”

Blaise Pascal

That is not responsive

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I am my physical corpus. And that is all I am.

If that is the case, Bob... then every problem in your life can be solved simply by ingesting the right pharmaceuticals. :laugh:

Greg

y

What more is there to us that actually exists in the physical universe (which by the way is the one and only universe we all live in)

If there is more to us that the physical and natural what is it and on what evidence do you assert it. Please do not given me any subjective and internal stuff. I mean evidence that two or more people other than yourself can see and judge.

Introspection is ka ka.

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What more is there to us that actually exists in the physical universe (which by the way is the one and only universe we all live in)

If there is more to us that the physical and natural what is it and on what evidence do you assert it. Please do not given me any subjective and internal stuff. I mean evidence that two or more people other than yourself can see and judge.

I assert nothing. It's everyone's free choice to affirm or deny reality.

The evidence that people are more than just a physical brain is the fact that if they choose to, they can observe their own thoughts and the emotions the thoughts set into motion from the vantage point of being another person...

...and they can then freely choose which ones they will act upon and which to let pass by unresponded.

The brain is thoughts... the mind chooses.

It is this uniquely human quality that makes everyone morally accountable beings.

Introspection is ka ka.

(shrug) That's your own free choice to pass sentence upon yourself to live the unexamined life.

Greg

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Has anyone ever by purely and objective means detected a mind in a body other than his? If so, please give give reference to a properly refereed scientific journal article.

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”

Blaise Pascal

That is not responsive

Yes.

It isn't responsive, Bob.

It is the choice not to respond to thoughts... but to act independently of them.

Greg

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(shrug...) So what's new about this?

I found this out for myself decades ago.

(quote from video, emphasis mine...)

"The brain puts out the call, we all acknowledge this.

The brain is the passive part of existence.

The brain puts things [thoughts] into our consciousness,

but it is the active mind that makes CHOICES about WHETHER to listen and HOW to listen."

Jeez... I'm glad someone else finally got this besides just me. :wink:

Greg

That's good, and it's clear the ramifications of new studies into neuroplasticity are going to shake up the oldest fallacies of philosophy and metaphysics. Like you, some philosophers 'got it' way back, and neuroscience is finally getting it too.

But a critical correction: I notice you've interjected "[thoughts]" into Schwartz' quote - this is untrue to his gist and to his words

"Things", in my understanding of him, are 'stimuli' by which we know the consciousness is constantly being bombarded.

Thought, concentrated and selected thoughts, is what "rewires your brain" and creates the "you".

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I am my physical corpus. And that is all I am. That is all anyone other than me can detect, observe and measure. Everyone of my thoughts are electrochemical events and processes that happen inside my skull and are inductively detectable by scan or by electrical measurement made at my scalp.

Bob, If the *Materialism (physicalism) vs. Idealism ('spiritualism')* reductionist argument wasn't already pretty much done for, I think it will be soon.

All the latest studies (in my sketchy grasp of it) of "neural highways", "plasticity" etc. appear to be empirically backing up what was previously introspectively gathered by some metaphysicians..

These are interesting times.

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Has anyone ever by purely and objective means detected a mind in a body other than his? If so, please give give reference to a properly refereed scientific journal article.

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”

Blaise Pascal

That is not responsive

Yes.

It isn't responsive, Bob.

It is the choice not to respond to thoughts... but to act independently of them.

Greg

How does one act dependently on one's thoughts then? Just what does that mean? "Choice" implies this alternative. I ask this because I have no idea what you are talking about one way or the other and I'm trying to get some traction.

--Brant

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But a critical correction: I notice you've interjected "[thoughts]" into Schwartz' quote - this is untrue to his gist and to his words

Well then, maybe I'm mistaken and he doesn't actually get it! :laugh:

In my view, the brain is the radio... and the mind is the listener.

Greg

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But a critical correction: I notice you've interjected "[thoughts]" into Schwartz' quote - this is untrue to his gist and to his words

Well then, maybe I'm mistaken and he doesn't actually get it! :laugh:

In my view, the brain is the radio... and the mind is the listener.

Greg

No, it's more like the brain is a passive receiver/3-D printer which the software that's an active, volitional mind is designing and imprinting.

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Thank you Tony, well worth more than one listen. The 'healthy advocate' part reminds me of Nathaniel Branden when he told us that when we were very young and suffering there was nobody there. But now, you are there, you can be there for your younger selves, give them the understanding they need, the perspective of an older kinder and objective adult self. He was awakening an internal healthy advocate who can rewire the damage. I cannot tell you how important this was for me, to be able to show kindness to myself, to quiet the angry and self depreciating voices. To learn how to do this is an enormous gift to yourself. Well, if you need it that is. I like the mindfulness message also.

It does not have to be permanent, Mike - that's what we hear from Nathaniel and this fellow. Actually, it might take as much effort to hold onto the old patterns as it would take to re-wire them. Ingrained habit, the one reason for not, and the safety of the known - emanating from some strange, early self-judgment, sentencing one to a life of hard labour. (Poor child). You have expressed NB well, and your own insight. This had -of course- also reminded me of Branden. :smile:

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I am my physical corpus. And that is all I am. That is all anyone other than me can detect, observe and measure. Everyone of my thoughts are electrochemical events and processes that happen inside my skull and are inductively detectable by scan or by electrical measurement made at my scalp.

Bob, If the *Materialism (physicalism) vs. Idealism ('spiritualism')* reductionist argument wasn't already pretty much done for, I think it will be soon.

All the latest studies (in my sketchy grasp of it) of "neural highways", "plasticity" etc. appear to be empirically backing up what was previously introspectively gathered by some metaphysicians..

These are interesting times.

Even so, the parts that do "mental" labor are all moist and physical, down to the cellular level. Take away the cells and nothing is left. Not a thing.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Tony,

OMG, this guy is fantastic!

I have an audio version of his book, but I never even loaded it up. (I will now.)

This is applying neuroscience and neuroplasticity to self-help at its finest. I love his four steps:

Relabel

Reframe

Refocus

Revalue

Hell, I can see this working not just as self-help (which I am HUGELY interested in), but as a way to format propaganda, marketing messages and persuasion in general, which I also study.

I am going to dive a lot deeper into the work of Schwartz.

Starting with getting the print copy. Then scouring YouTube. I don't care what his metaphysics are. I have been studying this stuff for a while (albeit at the self-learning level) so I know this is the real deal.

Thank you so much.

btw - If anyone wants the book, here is my Amazon affiliate link (I get about 4 cents on the dollar when people buy from that link--woo hoo! See you in Mexico! :) ): You Are Not Your Brain: The 4-Step Solution for Changing Bad Habits, Ending Unhealthy Thinking, and Taking Control of Your Life

Michael

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Here's an interview from a couple of years ago where Schwartz goes into the four steps with examples.

Not a great interview presentation-wise (also, Schwartz semi-stutters), but very clarifying.

For those with visceral reactions against religion, I think you will get a lot of value if you set that reaction aside temporarily as you watch the video, meaning ignore the religious comments, and apply what Schwartz says to the way you think.

There's a lot of wisdom in what he says and, gratifyingly, it weds well with the Objectivist mindset. (For instance, it's great to know that things similar to some of Nathaniel Branden's techniques have received corroboration on the level of brain-scans.)

Once again, I'm talking about the non-religious stuff.

Strict reductionists need not apply. :smile:

Michael

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Tony,

OMG, this guy is fantastic!

I have an audio version of his book, but I never even loaded it up. (I will now.)

This is applying neuroscience and neuroplasticity to self-help at its finest. I love his four steps:

Relabel

Reframe

Refocus

Revalue

Michael

Michael: Yes, he casts such a sweeping net with one basic theory, that the implications of it all are resounding.

For number one, there are very familiar (to us) echoes and a validation of "Man is a being of self-made soul" - and "man is a being of volitional consciousness" - and character/conviction formation.

(Certainly, "hard determinism" seems now to be dead in the water).

And it is the neuroscientists who are informing us! Aristotle would be pleased.

At other levels, there is cognitive psychology - and re-framing.

At the physical level, I think there's a lot of merit in stilling the mind with a regular simple breathing exercise.

It is a good grounding and preparation for raising one's awareness. Nothing *mystical* about it : we are still rational *animals* and should not forget it. ;)

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