J.S. McGowan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 When ever I have discussions with people. I always get people blurting, "well that's just your opinion..." It seems that statement is made with the intention of invalidating what I have said. Its as if the people I argue with believe in multiple realities stemming from ones opinion...today for example: I got told off by my peers for challenging a teacher about her ideas on homosexuality, my peers told me that I mustn't challenge her because she is religious and I mustn't try to break down the foundations that she has built her life upon. When I said that I was just presenting scientific fact: they said that science has value in my own personal opinion and that the teacher upholds religion and that i mustn't challenge her beliefs because i might hurt her feelings...any reply or statement or idea that i propose is answered by "well that's just your opinion..." and I just don't know what to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Jacob:Try this:"Thank you for saying that. "Out of curiosity, if it was 'just your opinion' that this knife that I have in my hand would not hurt you, then I can plunge it into your heart...right? and you will not be injured at all because it is just your opinion, or are some opinions valid and some opinions are not valid." Wait a few seconds for a reaction. Then explain that "So you do agree that there is an objective reality which is independent of your opinions...correct?Of course it is more effective if you have the knife!Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Say, "And your opinions are--what? Just yours?"Or: "How do you know that?"Remember, they get headaches when they try to think.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. McGowan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Haha Thanks Adam. That be a mighty fine response. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Jacob:Try this:"Thank you for saying that."Out of curiosity, if it was 'just your opinion' that this knife that I have in my hand would not hurt you, then I can plunge it into your heart...right? and you will not be injured at all because it is just your opinion, or are some opinions valid and some opinions are not valid."Wait a few seconds for a reaction. Then explain that "So you do agree that there is an objective reality which is independent of your opinions...correct?Of course it is more effective if you have the knife!AdamThis is probably not the best option for someone discussing things between classes in a high school.Try one that does not involve weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. McGowan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I make sure to tell them that I am speaking Hypothetically :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Try one that does not involve weapons.This has been a paid commercial announcement by the Canadians Advocating Disarming Society [CADS]... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I liked the way Hitchens handled it here. The "your opinion" part. You're friends say you "mustn't try", I disagree with that, but it may not be prudent to keep hammering on it, since she does have a certain amount of power over you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I liked the way Hitchens handled it here. The "your opinion" part. You're friends say you "mustn't try", I disagree with that, but it may not be prudent to keep hammering on it, since she does have a certain amount of power over you.I agree.Is this a public school? I am surprised that the teacher is allowed to give her opinion as teachable fact. Here the teachers are not allowed to state personal religious or political convictions as part of the lessons.Here's another rejoinder: "Yes, it is my opinion which is based on provable facts and science. Yours isn't," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. McGowan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I liked the way Hitchens handled it here. The "your opinion" part. You're friends say you "mustn't try", I disagree with that, but it may not be prudent to keep hammering on it, since she does have a certain amount of power over you.I agree.Is this a public school? I am surprised that the teacher is allowed to give her opinion as teachable fact. Here the teachers are not allowed to state personal religious or political convictions as part of the lessons.Here's another rejoinder: "Yes, it is my opinion which is based on provable facts and science. Yours isn't,"I go to a Private christian ethos school. Lucky me Oh and thanks for the youtube video ninth doctor. Even though Hitchins is a bit of a socialist. i cannot help but like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I liked the way Hitchens handled it here. The "your opinion" part. You're friends say you "mustn't try", I disagree with that, but it may not be prudent to keep hammering on it, since she does have a certain amount of power over you.I agree.Is this a public school? I am surprised that the teacher is allowed to give her opinion as teachable fact. Here the teachers are not allowed to state personal religious or political convictions as part of the lessons.Here's another rejoinder: "Yes, it is my opinion which is based on provable facts and science. Yours isn't,"I go to a Private christian ethos school. Lucky me Oh and thanks for the youtube video ninth doctor. Even though Hitchins is a bit of a socialist. i cannot help but like him.Ah, private school, where the free market of ideas reigns supreme.A further word on the teacher - if she has integrity she will try extra hard to be fair in marking you, because of your disagreements; however 9th is right, she does have the power in your situation and it would be self-thwarting to constantly challenge her just for the satisfaction of being right. She would seem to be fairly well liked by your classmates, since they are concerned about her feelings, so try to get along with her until you are out of her class.The world is progressing - when I was in high school we didn't believe teachers had any feelings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 PS Hitchens started out as a socialist but he turned sharply to the right (I think after 9/11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. McGowan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 PS Hitchens started out as a socialist but he turned sharply to the right (I think after 9/11).Oh, I don't know that much about his political views... iv only shimmed his autobiography. The only material of his that I have read is about his views on religion.Would you regard Hitchins as a worthy character to uphold as a hero for the avocation of rationality and objectivist ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 PS Hitchens started out as a socialist but he turned sharply to the right (I think after 9/11).Oh, I don't know that much about his political views... iv only shimmed his autobiography. The only material of his that I have read is about his views on religion.Would you regard Hitchins as a worthy character to uphold as a hero for the avocation of rationality and objectivist ideas?Well, he was a great polemicist and debater and could certainly be considered a hero of advocacy per se. I felt he employed rationality as a tool, rather than upheld it as an ideal in itself, but that is just my impression. As a worthy character and hero,,,I am not an objectivist so I will leave that bit to my more Oish colleagues here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Folks:This is a topic that consistently comes up concerning teachers and students. I strongly assert that a student should never modify his positions, ethics, morals, politics etc. to achieve a grade.As long as you are not disrespectful or rude stand up for your point of view and fuck the grades,.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. McGowan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Folks:This is a topic that consistently comes up concerning teachers and students.I strongly assert that a student should never modify his positions, ethics, morals, politics etc. to achieve a grade.As long as you are not disrespectful or rude stand up for your point of view and fuck the grades,.AdamA truly motivational comment Adam.I often try to see myself as a vanguard for reason here in South Africa. I live in quite a backwards farmer community so its a lonely battle... My opinions are far from hidden in the classroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Folks:This is a topic that consistently comes up concerning teachers and students.I strongly assert that a student should never modify his positions, ethics, morals, politics etc. to achieve a grade.As long as you are not disrespectful or rude stand up for your point of view and fuck the grades,.AdamA truly motivational comment Adam.I often try to see myself as a vanguard for reason here in South Africa. I live in quite a backwards farmer community so its a lonely battle...My opinions are far from hidden in the classroom Excellent. Just keep your anger under control and kill em with courteous and civil conversation. I used to truly enjoy tearing apart a liberal or a priest with a smile and savage refutation of their positions. Still love it today.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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