Nine Countries are on the Path to Atheism


Scottmkiv

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Nine Countries are on the Path to Atheism

It seems like the religion in the U.S. is a juggernaut that will be nigh unstoppable in the next decade or two. It's seemingly impossible to get elected without being openly and devoutly religious. George Bush claimed to receive divine commandments on how to perform his job.

President Obama has made sure his church attendance receives plenty of attention too. Some question his sincerity, but no one questions that this is the politically smart thing to do.

George Bush famously said that Islam is a religion of peace despite all the evidence to the contrary. 40% of U.S. citizens are strict young earth creationists. There are constant efforts to insert religion into our schools. It's clear that religion has quite a hold on the minds of America.

It's not all bad news though. Even in America Atheism is on the rise. People claiming no religious affiliation constitute the fastest growing religious minority in many countries throughout the world. Americans without religious affiliation comprise the only religious group growing in all 50 states; in 2008 those claiming no religion rose to 15 percent nationwide, with a maximum in Vermont at

34 percent.

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Nine Countries are on the Path to Atheism

It seems like the religion in the U.S. is a juggernaut that will be nigh unstoppable in the next decade or two. It's seemingly impossible to get elected without being openly and devoutly religious. George Bush claimed to receive divine commandments on how to perform his job.

President Obama has made sure his church attendance receives plenty of attention too. Some question his sincerity, but no one questions that this is the politically smart thing to do.

George Bush famously said that Islam is a religion of peace despite all the evidence to the contrary. 40% of U.S. citizens are strict young earth creationists. There are constant efforts to insert religion into our schools. It's clear that religion has quite a hold on the minds of America.

It's not all bad news though. Even in America Atheism is on the rise. People claiming no religious affiliation constitute the fastest growing religious minority in many countries throughout the world. Americans without religious affiliation comprise the only religious group growing in all 50 states; in 2008 those claiming no religion rose to 15 percent nationwide, with a maximum in Vermont at 34 percent.

The (long overdue) rise of atheism and agnosticism cannot be stopped. The point has finally come where more and more will free themselves from the shackles of living by false premises (The false premise of religion (at least of the dogmatic religions) being that a completely unsubstantiated belief is presented as fact (like e. g. "God's will").

People will bear less and such gross violation of a basic epistemological principle.

The new epistemological awareness will also contribute to the demise of non-theistic philosophies should they disregard the state of today's knowledge.

Americans without religious affiliation comprise the only religious group growing in all 50 states;

Why do you call these people a "religious" group? Do you refer here to those who are still believers but don't belong to (or no longer belong to) any organized religion?

In case you refer to people without religious beliefs at all, imo the term "religious group" is wrong.

Edited by Xray
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40% of U.S. citizens are strict young earth creationists.

My first thought was 'Nope. This cannot possibly be true.' So I headed to Gallup and had a look. Yikes:

egqoo3sa4ksftdt5itigsg.gif

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From the same RPR story cited by whatsisname Scott Connery:

According to the study, Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland, have ever increasing levels of atheists. The Netherlands had the lowest population of atheists at 40%, and the Czech Republic was the highest at 60%.

-- Angela, the sloppy commentary in the whosit's post is excerpted from the actual linked RPR story, not from whatsisname's pen.

The 'nine countries' list comes from the research article "A mathematical model of social group competition with application to the growth of religious non-a," which took the underlying data from national census reports. I think the only direct comparison that would make sense is to use similar census data from the US, if it exists.

I will need to take a stats course and some graduate work in math to grok the article, but at first glance it will tell me that Canadian atheists are somewhere between 40 and 60 percent. That would be just as surprising to me as the figure from Gallup of 40% yeehaw YEC believers.

+++++++++++++++++++++=

PS - as you suspected, Angela, the slophound writer made a category error. The study I cited above does not even mention 'atheism' -- the authors use 'unaffiliated.'

Edited by william.scherk
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WSS,

Not only is the article in question about "religious non-affiliation," the word "atheism" appears only in the title of a book chapter that the article cites, and the word "agnosticism" doesn't appear at all.

The Gallup numbers on anti-evolutionary sentiment are, sadly, typical. I suspect that there are social desirability pressures in the United States to respond more religiously on a wide variety of poll questions, but even if we knew how to make the appropriate deductions, the numbers on creationism or on such matters as belief in the Devil would still be disturbingly high.

Robert Campbell

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WSS,

Not only is the article in question about "religious non-affiliation," the word "atheism" appears only in the title of a book chapter that the article cites, and the word "agnosticism" doesn't appear at all.

It was me who brought up agnosticism in a comment:

Xray: The (long overdue) rise of atheism and agnosticism cannot be stopped.
Edited by Xray
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WSS,

Not only is the article in question about "religious non-affiliation," the word "atheism" appears only in the title of a book chapter that the article cites, and the word "agnosticism" doesn't appear at all.

It was me who brought up agnosticism in a comment:

Xray: The (long overdue) rise of atheism and agnosticism cannot be stopped.

Sounds like you got religion.

--Brant

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-- Angela, the sloppy commentary in the whosit's post is excerpted from the actual linked RPR story, not from whatsisname's pen.

William, I thought poster Scottmkiv was also the author of the article he linked to because the name in the caption (Scott Connery) is the same as listed in his profile.

http://www.rationalpublicradio.com/nine-countries-are-on-the-path-to-atheism.html

Nine Countries are on the Path to Atheism

Scott Connery

Edited by Xray
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-- Angela, the sloppy commentary in the whosit's post is excerpted from the actual linked RPR story, not from whatsisname's pen.

William, I thought poster Scottmkiv was also the author of the article he linked to because the name in the caption (Scott Connery) is the same as listed in his profile.

You get the I Can Follow A Lead statuette. Thanks for pointing out my error. I did not check his profile (and I get the Look Who's Talking golden turd).

I will offer a correction to Scott at the RPR site.

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There are some very strong inroads being made as far as the story of evolution goes. The integration work is definitely happening. Here's something from a collection of quotes Connie Barlow developed:

http://www.thegreatstory.org/ClassicQuotes.pdf

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Xray: The (long overdue) rise of atheism and agnosticism cannot be stopped.

Sounds like you got religion.

--Brant

I got rid of religion.

But since I cannot claim to know there is no god, from a purely epistemological standpoint, I have to call myself an agnostic.

Edited by Xray
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Xray: The (long overdue) rise of atheism and agnosticism cannot be stopped.

Sounds like you got religion.

--Brant

I got rid of religion.

But since I cannot claim to know there is no god, from a purely epistemological standpoint, I have to call myself an agnostic.

Aha! Then you cannot claim to know I'm not God!

--Brant

Zod!

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Aha! Then you cannot claim to know I'm not God!

--Brant

Zod!

This is epistemologically correct of course.

But in case you should get the idea to claim that you are God (or God's dark Mr. Hyde-Alter Ego figuring under various names in the different cultures), keep in mind that the burden of proof will fall on you. ;)

Edited by Xray
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Xray: The (long overdue) rise of atheism and agnosticism cannot be stopped.

Sounds like you got religion.

--Brant

I got rid of religion.

But since I cannot claim to know there is no god, from a purely epistemological standpoint, I have to call myself an agnostic.

God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

The standard cannot be be "agnosticism" towards any arbitrary concept. Are you agnostic about unicorns? Really? The burden of proof lies with the person making a positive claim. Effective epistemology demands this. Otherwise you will be paralyzed by the thought that Allah, Huitzilopotchli, or Ahura Mazda might frown on any given choice you make.

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Aha! Then you cannot claim to know I'm not God!

--Brant

Zod!

This is epistemologically correct of course.

But in case you should get the idea to claim that you are God (or God's dark Mr. Hyde-Alter Ego figuring under various names in the different cultures), keep in mind that the burden of proof will fall on you. ;)

You can make the reasonable statement that I'm not God; it's just not to be proved.

--Brant

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But since I cannot claim to know there is no god, from a purely epistemological standpoint, I have to call myself an agnostic.

I wonder if you might get some value out of the irreligious PZ Myers' disquisitions about 'dictionary atheists,' and if you would have some epistemological fun with 'faitheist' and 'accomodationist' and other festive schisms in the non-believer community of thought . . .

I used to be pretend to be a 'dictionary atheist,' as a line of defense against the kind of irrational charge that claims 'atheism is religion/belief,' or 'atheists believe they KNOW gawd don't exist,' or 'Atheism is faith anyway' . . .

But, of course, few people make those arguments face to face, so I was armed against an assault that has only happened once or twice. Around my parts, folks rarely inquire about faith, they simply assume.

Still, 'dictionary atheism' (in its stripped-down, benign connotation) remnains a line of defence against boring and stupid discussions wherein the other party wants to rant about what I believe.

So, Angela, if anyone tries to hound you with the Peikoffian dicta that Agnostics Are Cowards, you can proudly counter that you are a [dictionary] atheist too . . .

Edited by william.scherk
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God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

Scott:

Really?

How so?

Adam

Edited by Selene
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God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

Scott:

Really?

How so?

Adam

Let me point out a few of the obvious universals. Each specific religion's god will obviously have some unique ones, but these apply to all religions of any size that I am aware of.

Bodiless existent. If you don't have a physical presence, you cannot be said to exist.

Omnipotent/Omniscient - Being Omniscient means knowing the future, knowing what future means you are powerless to change the future, and are therefore not omnipotent.

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Michael and Connie Dowd have turned the volume up a notch, and for free, I might add. You might want to see who they are working with; read through it.

This is a little past knee-jerking (or other forms involving tissues, for that matter). This Wed. I'd do it--I've seen these two work!

www.evolutionizeyourlife.com

rde

100% Endorsed.

Edited by Rich Engle
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God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

Scott:

Really?

How so?

Adam

Let me point out a few of the obvious universals. Each specific religion's god will obviously have some unique ones, but these apply to all religions of any size that I am aware of.

Bodiless existent. If you don't have a physical presence, you cannot be said to exist.

Omnipotent/Omniscient - Being Omniscient means knowing the future, knowing what future means you are powerless to change the future, and are therefore not omnipotent.

You are too stuck with the image of a personal god, Scott.

Not surprising, since we in our Western culture have been raised with this image of a god.

This thread might be of interest to you: "Atheists, Choose a Religion!" I chose Panentheism there.

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10484&st=20&p=133179entry133179

God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

The standard cannot be be "agnosticism" towards any arbitrary concept.

Of course an agnostic can point out to a theist that his/her idea of a god contradicts objective facts. For example, if it is claimed that god has created the earth in seven days, it can be refuted as false.

Being a religious agnostic does not exclude subjecting unsubstantiated religious claims to the litmus test of reality.

Are you agnostic about unicorns? Really? The burden of proof lies with the person making a positive claim.

Okay, then let's wait and see if anyone here makes the positive claim that unicorns exist and then we'll examine his/her evidence. :D

Effective epistemology demands this.

Otherwise you will be paralyzed by the thought that Allah, Huitzilopotchli, or Ahura Mazda might frown on any given choice you make.

Even if you meant this in jest, it would be a typical mistake of letting religion flow into a purely epistemological issue.

Edited by Xray
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Scott, please forgive me for my earlier mangling of your authorship of the original article.

Are you going to respond to the criticism up above (by Robert, Angela and me) -- that you made a category error in mixing up 'unaffiliated' with 'atheist'?

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40% of U.S. citizens are strict young earth creationists.

My first thought was 'Nope. This cannot possibly be true.' So I headed to Gallup and had a look. Yikes:

egqoo3sa4ksftdt5itigsg.gif

Hard to believe, is it. What could be reason for the percentage of young earth creationists being that high?

But since I cannot claim to know there is no god, from a purely epistemological standpoint, I have to call myself an agnostic.

I wonder if you might get some value out of the irreligious PZ Myers' disquisitions about 'dictionary atheists,' and if you would have some epistemological fun with 'faitheist' and 'accomodationist' and other festive schisms in the non-believer community of thought . . .

Thanks for directing me to this interesting blog, William. I just left a comment there.

Quite an attack dog, PZ Myers, isn't he? :)

I hope atheists won't fall into the same pit as the theists did, fiercely fighting another about what constitutes "true atheism" ...

Still, 'dictionary atheism' (in its stripped-down, benign connotation) remnains a line of defence against boring and stupid discussions wherein the other party wants to rant about what I believe.

"Dictionary Atheism", is indeed a pretty smart position to choose in a debate since it makes it impossible to push the atheist into an epistemological corner.

For suppose the atheist made the mistake of claiming to KNOW there is no god, it is possible to challenge him by countering "No, you cannot know this."

Whereas the dictionary atheist remains epistemologically unassailable.

So, Angela, if anyone tries to hound you with the Peikoffian dicta that Agnostics Are Cowards, you can proudly counter that you are a [dictionary] atheist too . . .

I'll counter with that, no question. ;)

Edited by Xray
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God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

I can tell you that's a screwup right there.

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God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

The standard cannot be be "agnosticism" towards any arbitrary concept.

Scott,

Do you consider the God-concept to be contradictory, arbitrary, or both?

Robert Campbell

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God, as conceived by all modern religions, is a contradictory concept. Therefore, it cannot exist.

I can tell you that's a screwup right there.

The idea of "God" is psychological-political genius. It is powerful epistemology feeding on a metaphysical fantasy. The "God" out there is actually the "God" inside but moral equivalency comes from that idea mitigating the need for complex and always controversial philosophies. That is why Rand went too far with man-as-God or man as a god or godlike man or even man as a heroic being. Politically that can only devolve into fascism or other forms of secular tyranny. This doesn't mean religious sects don't fight it out. Simply, man is man with a plethora of various attributes and various sometimes fluctuating emphasis on those and one must start there to find true individualism. The only way for secular commonality is the championship of individual rights and leave religion in the church along with cultural philosophy which Objectivism consists mostly of as represented by Miss Rand.

--Brant

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