Vicarious


Serapis Bey

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Mystical? Malevolent? Reductionistic? Anti-Life? Perspicacious? What's your take?

What is that crap about, anyway?

Bob, try ingesting a few hundred micrograms -- give or take -- of LSD, and all will be revealed ;)

[sorry for the pithy response -- it's been a long day. But in the tiniest nutshell possible: Our concepts of life vs. death draw artificial lines between the two. But these are just conceptual categories created by the mind. In reality, the Life Process and Death Process are inextricably bound together in a unified organic whole. That's how it's been since the beginning, and will continue to be (for the forseeable future, anyway). Life (which involves the consumption/killing of other resources, i.e., living things) demands it, and this can sometimes apply to mental processes as well]

I did better than that. I was dead yesterday, for a little while. I had a double ender an episcopic examination of my gut and a colonoscopy. That required an anesthetic that put me out, completely out. So between the time I went under until the time I woke up, I ceased to exist as a self conscious sentient being. There was no "me" when I went under. No thoughts, no dreams, no memories. For all practical purposes, I was dead and gone, and if I never came to (a small but definite possibility) I would not have known and there was no me to have any regrets.

It was a practical experience. I now know what it is like to be dead.

Ba'al Chatzaqf

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I've tried listening to them before, but I did like the Sigur Ros tune. Though I have to admit the feeling I got from it was slightly disturbing for some reason--probably because I'm not comfortable with that style yet (including the video, which I still found very intriguing). I used to feel uncomfortable listening to certain things that I later become accustomed to.

The Meshuhhah track was quite metallic; I just can't get into it.

Also, I agree that ambition for the sake of it isn't good... which is why I tend to enjoy more minimalistic music.

Here's a couple more artists I think I overlooked the first time (the only one you may not like is Hop Along):

I'm sure you have listened to a ton of classical music, but just in case you haven't heard this composition, it's amazing.

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Mystical? Malevolent? Reductionistic? Anti-Life? Perspicacious? What's your take?

I've heard Tool called "The scariest band ever", and I think it's for good reason.

Whether you like this song or hate it, if you read the lyrics and listen to the authenticity with which Maynard sings them, and if you have one ounce of blood pumping through your brain, you will not able to escape asking yourself some hard questions.

Don't look at me like

I am a monster

Frown out your one face

But with the other

Stare like a junkie

And I've found that a lot of their songs invoke the same genuine introspection. I almost consider Tool more of a messenger than a rock band - a messenger whose method of choice for delivering their sermon is music. I think of Bill Hicks the same way, except that he used comedy. Tool has almost nothing in common with the archetypal "rock band" except that they play the same instruments.

And that's why they're scary. Their music only serves as the canvas onto which their message is painted. You asked "malevolent, mystical, etc.." ... I think the very question betrays the reality that most everyone interprets such sensory input through their lens of choice. But what Tool does, in my view, is to pull away the lens and show a picture reality in all of its raw beauty, horror, and indifference to our interests.

This stripping away of the lens is what I believe Hicks (and then Maynard) referred to as prying open the "Third Eye" - the eye that has no lens and sees things as they are.

To see things that way is scary, and not everyone can handle that.

To point out that we all recoil at the horror of death while consistently slowing down our cars to be sure we get a good look at it is a brutal way to confront people with their true nature. But for those who are not afraid of that confrontation, Tool is a refreshing break from the puerile garbage that is the current state of popular music.

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I did better than that. I was dead yesterday, for a little while. I had a double ender an episcopic examination of my gut and a colonoscopy. That required an anesthetic that put me out, completely out. So between the time I went under until the time I woke up, I ceased to exist as a self conscious sentient being. There was no "me" when I went under. No thoughts, no dreams, no memories. For all practical purposes, I was dead and gone, and if I never came to (a small but definite possibility) I would not have known and there was no me to have any regrets.

It was a practical experience. I now know what it is like to be dead.

Ba'al Chatzaqf

Actually, no. As your conscious awareness slowly faded into nothingness, right before the last flicker of your physiology expended its last spark, you experienced a quantum fluctuation in which your consciousness pierced the diaphanous membrane which seperates one cosmos from the other in the multiverse. You came to in a new world, already programmed with a whole new set of memories predetermined by the intial conditions of this new universe. You think you can verify your identity by reference to your memories, but alas, those memories came preloaded with this new existence. Welcome to the New World.

Just kidding Bob. Glad you made it back to the land of the living.

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I've tried listening to them before, but I did like the Sigur Ros tune. Though I have to admit the feeling I got from it was slightly disturbing for some reason--probably because I'm not comfortable with that style yet (including the video, which I still found very intriguing). I used to feel uncomfortable listening to certain things that I later become accustomed to.

It's a possibility, but I wouldn't bet money on it. My impression is that most musical tastes are fairly intractable. Oh, I suppose one can jump from "dubstep" to "trance", but larger leaps like "country" to "heavy metal" strike me as unrealistic. I suspect musical and aesthetic tastes have much to do with temperament, and as the current science tells us, temperament is fixed at birth (or very shortly afterwards). I've made a good faith effort to appreciate classical music, but just never seem to feel the urge to throw a CD in the player, unless very exacting conditions are met. Perhaps I've been spoiled by pop/rock music and will always need my musical infusion leadened with strong hooks, or pounding bass drums. Who knows? If you prefer minimalist music, I don't forsee you getting into Tool.

As far as your latest contributions:

I really enjoyed the BT. I've heard a fair share of his work, and find that half of his output is great, but that the other half is very dance-club type stuff. Being the elitist snob that I am, the snob rulebook states that we must always turn our noses up to anything that is actually danceable. But, my favorite track from him, which left quite an impression, is his "Good Morning Kaia". I believe it's from the same album as the song you posted. The crying infant sounds familiar. It starts out very minimalistic but gradually crescendos to a quite powerful and moving climax. The feeling I get is one of a strong spiritual forward movement...an insistent propelling forward over obstacles...I would characterize it as "Ode to Victory"...the sense is one of struggle and growth, like the lines and planes of skyscrapers stretching towards the sky, in defiance of gravity, and with the spirit of Man standing atop the world. (Oh wow, did I just get all Objectivisty there for a second?) Anyway, it almost elevates me to Ninth Doctorish levels of musical delirium:

I enjoyed both Esben and Hop Along, although I found the Esben to be a tad navel-gazingish. But that's probably just a function of my age. They both take me back to my time in college, hearing small touring acts replete with fresh ideas. Indie chick singers --> Indie Clubs --> Indie chick fans...can't go wrong there.

The Phillip Glass was impressive and not what I expected. I enjoyed it.

I'm sure you have listened to a ton of classical music

[NinthDoctor] Ah... No. [/NinthDoctor]

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The Phillip Glass was impressive and not what I expected.

Back when I was a druggie, I got totally wasted and went to see Koyaanisqatsi. (You can see the whole thing in video for free here and here.)

It was one of the few aesthetic experiences I remember while being that high, Still, all I could say was, "Far out, dude."

:smile:

But I think my current interest in covert hypnosis and persuasion techniques started at that moment. I haven't heard most of the music on this thread yet, but if Glass is still a minimalist like he was, his stuff is trance-inducing.

Michael

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The Phillip Glass was impressive and not what I expected.

Back when I was a druggie, I got totally wasted and went to see Koyaanisqatsi. (You can see the whole thing in video for free here and here.)

It was one of the few aesthetic experiences I remember while being that high, Still, all I could say was, "Far out, dude."

:smile:

But I think my current interest in covert hypnosis and persuasion techniques started at that moment. I haven't heard most of the music on this thread yet, but if Glass is still a minimalist like he was, his stuff is trance-inducing.

Michael

I find Glass mesmerizing too. A true original.

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