How many objectivists are there in the world today?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

If you are talking about NY...well far be it from me to cast aspersions on the morals of the ladies that inhabit NY, but I think that would be the least of your worries.

And this dude wants to make more than five posts a day.

To do what? This kind of crap?

Heh.

Michael

[Kimmler]

Dude? DUDE!

I prefer chap. Thanks.

Btw...Adam and I just joshing. We are allowed to do that here, aren't we?

[kiaer.ts]

I am curious. Why has no one attempted to estimate the number of Objectists. My guess it is = to one half the number of copies of Atlas Shrugged sold.

Ba'al Chatzaf

As far as I can tell there is only one Objectivist--me.

--Brant

got it right

Ahh...imagine the scene...people coming out from the ruble after the strike is successful and standing up, like the Spartacus scene and with no

PAIN

FEAR or

GUILT saying I am the Objectivist! Kinda brings a queasy feeling all over me!

Adam

Be sure to be there with a supply of candy bars and nylon stockings - a-la the Allied troops did in Berlin at the end of WWII. Remember what they got in return

VD?

Damn, I was going to say "the clap," but you beat me to it.

[Jerry Biggers]

This question, "How Many Objectivists...?" is sort of like asking how many conservatives are there? Which then need further clarification: what is a conservative? And what kind? Paleo?, Neo?, traditionalist?, fusionist?, libertarian?

Admittedly, Objectivists are a more rarified breed. As has already been mentioned here, at length, some Objectivists are only too eager to exclude others who, to the outside (I'm tempted to say, "rational") world, do not seem to differ much in primary philosophical/political viewpoints.

Perhaps a better way (at least different, since no two Objectivists are going to agree on what is "better," or probably much else) is to attempt to determine how many Objectivists there are by examining what determining influence Rand's books have had on the American political scene (If someone wants to try this outside of the U.S./Canada, good luck).

Not just how many books sold. Not on how many articles there have been attacking Rand (which, to her critics' great exasperation, seem to have the same effect as trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it!). Not on how many internet Objectivist forums, websites, or blogs there are.

Let's phrase it this way: In the 53 years since the publication of Atlas Shrugged, how many politicians have been elected to national office after they declared that they were Objectivists? (Congressman Ryan doesn't count! Nor does Randall Paul!). How many prominent businessmen (let's say, at least billionaires) are publicly Objectivist and claim their success was caused, at least in part, by application of Objectivism? How many other "blockbuster novel" writers are there who use Objectivist themes in their books, a la Atlas Shrugged? Or are even willing to say publicly that they admire and try to apply Rand's ideas? (Ruling out genre and niche categories such as sci-fi or fantasy. You're not going to ask me why, are you?). How many movies or TV shows since The Fountainhead have presented themes taht are explicitly Objectivist? (This is not the same as asking how many Objectivists have liked isolated elements in other movies).

Rule-out as-yet unrealized projects, such as the Atlas Shrugged movie, or the Tea Party. Waving around placards with Ayn Rand slogans on them does not mean that it is an Objectivist movement. Maybe it will develop that way, but it is way too early to tell.

By the way, How many liberals are there? Enough to get Obama elected.

How many conservatives? Enough for liberal Democrats to lose control of the House, last election.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jerry,

Maybe the real question is not how many Objectivists there are, but how many good ones.

Whazzat?

That harmonica?

And that bass and guitar... and drums?

Dayaamm!

I think I hear the Schism Blues starting up again...

Michael

[Kimmler]

This question, "How Many Objectivists...?" is sort of like asking how many conservatives are there? Which then need further clarification: what is a conservative? And what kind? Paleo?, Neo?, traditionalist?, fusionist?, libertarian?

Admittedly, Objectivists are a more rarified breed. As has already been mentioned here, at length, some Objectivists are only too eager to exclude others who, to the outside (I'm tempted to say, "rational") world, do not seem to differ much in primary philosophical/political viewpoints.

Perhaps a better way (at least different, since no two Objectivists are going to agree on what is "better," or probably much else) is to attempt to determine how many Objectivists there are by examining what determining influence Rand's books have had on the American political scene (If someone wants to try this outside of the U.S./Canada, good luck).

Not just how many books sold. Not on how many articles there have been attacking Rand (which, to her critics' great exasperation, seem to have the same effect as trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it!). Not on how many internet Objectivist forums, websites, or blogs there are.

Let's phrase it this way: In the 53 years since the publication of Atlas Shrugged, how many politicians have been elected to national office after they declared that they were Objectivists? (Congressman Ryan doesn't count! Nor does Randall Paul!). How many prominent businessmen (let's say, at least billionaires) are publicly Objectivist and claim their success was caused, at least in part, by application of Objectivism? How many other "blockbuster novel" writers are there who use Objectivist themes in their books, a la Atlas Shrugged? Or are even willing to say publicly that they admire and try to apply Rand's ideas? (Ruling out genre and niche categories such as sci-fi or fantasy. You're not going to ask me why, are you?). How many movies or TV shows since The Fountainhead have presented themes taht are explicitly Objectivist? (This is not the same as asking how many Objectivists have liked isolated elements in other movies).

Rule-out as-yet unrealized projects, such as the Atlas Shrugged movie, or the Tea Party. Waving around placards with Ayn Rand slogans on them does not mean that it is an Objectivist movement. Maybe it will develop that way, but it is way too early to tell.

By the way, How many liberals are there? Enough to get Obama elected.

How many conservatives? Enough for liberal Democrats to lose control of the House, last election.

So what is the objectivist movement then?

How do you expect it to develop and why, 53 years after Atlas Shrugged was published, is it still too early to tell?

Sorry to ask you.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I think Rand's true political/philosophical worth is that several of her ideas have been adopted into the mainstream American culture.

I find that far more valuable than any Objectivist movement.

My own goal with respect to an Objectivist intellectual movement is to promote mainstream exposure of more of Rand's ideas and reinforce the ones that are there. Obviously, I mean her good ideas, not her bad ones.

I see this as an undertaking individual by individual, not as an organized movement. In fact, the best organized Objectivist "movements" I have seen so far have been the quite capitalistic efforts of companies like Bobs-Merril and Random House (and other publishers of Rand's works) in selling their products. They certainly "moved" a lot of books

Michael

[Jerry Biggers]

This question, "How Many Objectivists...?" is sort of like asking how many conservatives are there? Which then need further clarification: what is a conservative? And what kind? Paleo?, Neo?, traditionalist?, fusionist?, libertarian?

Admittedly, Objectivists are a more rarified breed. As has already been mentioned here, at length, some Objectivists are only too eager to exclude others who, to the outside (I'm tempted to say, "rational") world, do not seem to differ much in primary philosophical/political viewpoints.

Perhaps a better way (at least different, since no two Objectivists are going to agree on what is "better," or probably much else) is to attempt to determine how many Objectivists there are by examining what determining influence Rand's books have had on the American political scene (If someone wants to try this outside of the U.S./Canada, good luck).

Not just how many books sold. Not on how many articles there have been attacking Rand (which, to her critics' great exasperation, seem to have the same effect as trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it!). Not on how many internet Objectivist forums, websites, or blogs there are.

Let's phrase it this way: In the 53 years since the publication of Atlas Shrugged, how many politicians have been elected to national office after they declared that they were Objectivists? (Congressman Ryan doesn't count! Nor does Randall Paul!). How many prominent businessmen (let's say, at least billionaires) are publicly Objectivist and claim their success was caused, at least in part, by application of Objectivism? How many other "blockbuster novel" writers are there who use Objectivist themes in their books, a la Atlas Shrugged? Or are even willing to say publicly that they admire and try to apply Rand's ideas? (Ruling out genre and niche categories such as sci-fi or fantasy. You're not going to ask me why, are you?). How many movies or TV shows since The Fountainhead have presented themes taht are explicitly Objectivist? (This is not the same as asking how many Objectivists have liked isolated elements in other movies).

Rule-out as-yet unrealized projects, such as the Atlas Shrugged movie, or the Tea Party. Waving around placards with Ayn Rand slogans on them does not mean that it is an Objectivist movement. Maybe it will develop that way, but it is way too early to tell.

By the way, How many liberals are there? Enough to get Obama elected.

How many conservatives? Enough for liberal Democrats to lose control of the House, last election.

So what is the objectivist movement then?

How do you expect it to develop and why, 53 years after Atlas Shrugged was published, is it still too early to tell?

Sorry to ask you.

There are are probably as many answers to your questions as there are people who have read Rand's novels, (plus, the many vocal opponents, left, right, and center who have not read her but think they know what her positions are based on the many hysterical criticisms that have been written about her in print and on the internet. In the case of many of the most recent criticisms on the left, it sounds more like they have been reading each other rather than actually reading Rand).

It is extremely difficult to gauge the size of a "movement" that really has no organized base. TAS and ARI are at best educational efforts. They are not political parties, and could not legally advocate or lobby without losing their tax-exempt status. In any case, I don't believe either org has divulged membership figures. Judging just based on her continuing and increasing book sales, neither ARI or TAS has attracted more than a tiny fraction of people interested in Rand's ideas.

In addition to her general readership (which may now be over 40 million), there are many scholars who have avoided affiliating with either group, but continue to publish papers and books that advocate ideas consonant with Objectivism (e.g., Tibor Machan, Douglas Den Uyl, Douglas Rasmussen, Chris Sciabarra, scholars and officers of the Cato Institute,etc). I suppose you could say that they are also part of "the movement," but they may dispute being so labeled and surely ARIans would disavow them.

I don't have the exact quote on hand, but Rand has been quoted as saying that she is challenging 2,000 years of Western philosophy (loose paraphrase). This may seem hyperbole, but it is not. Those on the Left who lump her in with conservatives literally do not know what they are talking about. Her philosophical method and ethical system are truly radical (as she often pointed out). Now, given that, another way to try to estimate the influence of Rand's ideas is to count the number of extremely hostile reviews that have come out. Not the ones right after Atlas Shrugged was published or while she was alive, but the articles in the Left media since the financial crash and the subsequent inauguration of Obama. Well before the "Tea Party" movement got going, the Left began lauching increasingly numerous and hostile attacks. This continued to increase with the release of the Burns and the Heller biographical studies of Rand, which they thought could be used to bludgeon Rand again and destroy her influence. To their consternation and exasperation, all of their adverse publicity did not abate interest in Atlas Shrugged and Ayn Rand. My point here is that here is another way to try to estimate the size of the "Objectivist movement": the number and intensity of the published attacks on here. Would Rand's enemies on the Left - and on the Right - be spending so much energy and so much time attacking her if they were not greatly concerned about the growing interest and influence of her ideas?.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Jerry Biggers

[Selene]

Jerry,

Maybe the real question is not how many Objectivists there are, but how many good ones.

Michael

Good point.

Here might be one of them...

Nayyar has been elevated at a time when Sony is in the midst of a restructuring.

The company is targeting to split the consumer electronics, television and home theatre business into a separate self-sustaining unit later this year.

Amid the reorganisation, which will first be carried out in the US, China and Japan, Nayyar's elevation hints at his growing importance in the ongoing overhaul.

An alumnus of IMT Ghaziabad, Nayyar joined Sony West Asia's sales forces in 1996 and was responsible for growing markets in North and East Africa, Russia, Lebanon, Syria and other Gulf Cooperation Council countries. Before joining Sony, he had worked with Kwality Walls.

When Nayyar is not busy crunching sales numbers, he can be found listening to Guns N' Roses and Michael Jackson or reading classics like Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged.

Though not a movie buff, The Godfather and Sholay are among his favourites. He is also a connoisseur of fine spirits, although, he says, he prefers fresh fruit juice to other beverages any day.

Among restaurants, the Set'z in Vasant Kunj in Delhi is his top choice.

http://www.rediff.com/business/report/special-sunil-nayyar-the-man-who-changed-sonys-fortunes-in-india/20150403.htm

[RobinReborn]

My estimate is 100,000.

[Brant Gaede]

Why?