Well, Brant, with that one you managed to provoke me into saying something further. I haven't been in any argument with Jody "from the get go." Jody wasn't the addressee of my post which started this interlude. Bob Kolker was. I was objecting to his presumption. Please get clear why I said anything at all. I hadn't even read most of the other posts on this thread. I always read Bob K.'s posts because he says a certain amount about scientific issues which I find of interest. On the other hand he can irritate me with his blanket pronouncements. It was Bob K. who was the target of my remarks, not Jody. Near as I can tell, what Jody is upset about is my description of the particular remarks to which Bob K. was responding. I'm sorry if Jody's feathers have been as badly ruffled as it seems they have been. Maybe if I'd said "empty" instead of "vapid," he wouldn't have been as miffed. I debated between "vapid" and "empty." Whatever. I'm not going to argue with Jody about Islamists, national defense, etc. To repeat -- and then, I hope, I won't feel called on to re-re-re-repeat: it was Bob K.'s post to which I was objecting. Ellen ___ Ellen, The first post I responded to tonight was Brant's, but I see this has went much further, and I have yet to read them all. Honestly, I was offended by your comments. I'm willing to discuss it intellectually with you, and to respect your opionion, but you tossed out the empty pejoratives against me. I respected you, so it just kind of cut me a bit. A lot of people here know that I don't mince words, but I will listen...and if I listen and hear something of value, I'll admit it. The best example of this is Rich, who is someone I attacked dedicatedly on SoloHq, but someone that I now admit I was mostly ;) wrong about. He now holds my deepest respect. Quite simply Ellen, I was taken aback by you, because I've always respected you...even when I disagreed. When I have disagreed with you, I have never assumed ignorance or maliciousness on your part, which is what you intimated about me...at least in my opinion.