Feminism, Politics, PMS, Kelly And Trump

[Selene]

The issue of today for the PC enablers is that Trump made a "hateful hormonal attack" on a female anchor.

It is good that everything is peaceful in the world and our economy is going great so we can turn to the really important issue of our time...

But the worst part about PMS, for me, is not the symptoms themselves. It’s the social reaction, the way PMS is used against women by forces outside our bodies. I’m not going to get into a deeply ideological discussion about it in this post (see the helpful links below for that kind of thing!), but I do want to just write a bit about my experience.

This is perfect for collectivism because it separates and absorbs individuals at the same time.

He definitely noticed the change in my behavior, more pronounced this month because we’re living together and are in constantly close proximity at home, and it definitely caused him some anxiety of his own. As he asked me about it one night over the weekend, I realized that I had no idea what to do. Should I tell him not to worry about it, I was just PMSing? Should I try to convince him that the crankiness was inconsequential without mentioning any lady business at all? Should I simply say sorry and offer no explanation whatsoever? What would he accept? What was the most accurate? What was the most feminist?

What does OL think about this issue?

A...

http://caitspivey.com/2013/02/19/reconciling-your-pms-with-your-feminism/

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Why Adam,

You dirty old man!

Trump was talking about Megyn Kelly's nose.

Gotcha!!!

Michael

[9thdoctor]

What does OL think about this issue?

"I wanted to run for U.S. President in the worst way. And I did!"

George McGovern

This ought to be the epitaph for Trump's political career. Not that he'll ever say it.

[Selene]

What does OL think about this issue?

"I wanted to run for U.S. President in the worst way. And I did!"

George McGovern

This ought to be the epitaph for Trump's political career. Not that he'll ever say it.

I worked on his primary campaign and he was a loser, Trump is a winner.

[Selene]

Back to the issue that I started the thread with.

And remember just this year Evita's campaign made a big to do about the fact that we did not have to worry about "female" problems because Granny Evita was the equivalent of spayed...[<dog reference in case anyone might miss my revulsion with Evita].

Here is an inquisitive article about "PMS."

The author says,

...let’s be fair, angry online commenters (and careless journalists): The researchers aren’t telling you menstrual pain is all in your head, or that your very real period pain won’t affect your mood. Sarah Romans did tell James Hamblin of The Atlantic,

The idea that any emotionality in women can be firstly attributed to their reproductive function—we’re skeptical about that.

Rightly so–feminists have been saying this for decades. Feminist critiques of PMS as a construct point to both the ever-increasing medicalization of women’s lives and the dismissal of women’s emotions, especially anger, by attributing them to biology.

Interesting, the "medicalization of women's lives" - defining and classifying using:

Medicalization is studied from a sociologic perspective in terms of the role and power of professionals, patients, and corporations, and also for its implications for ordinary people whose self-identity and life decisions may depend on the prevailing concepts of health and illness. Once a condition is classified as medical, a medical model of disability tends to be used in place of a social model. Medicalization may also be termed "pathologization" or (pejoratively) "disease mongering".

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2012/10/23/is-pms-overblown-thats-what-research-shows/

Control the language and the information and you control the decision in most cases.

So do women, as a sex/class, have psychological, physical and sociological reactions that occur during her menstrual cycle.

Are there clearly definable time frames within that cycle where the reactions lead to negative behavior,

A...

[9thdoctor]

I worked on his primary campaign and he was a loser, Trump is a winner.

McGovern won elections, just not when he ran for the presidency. Trump hasn't been elected to anything yet. Can you supply an example of someone behaving like him and then getting elected? The closest I can think of is Jesse Ventura, and that's not very close. Maybe if you count foreign leaders like Berlusconi...

[Selene]

I worked on his primary campaign and he was a loser, Trump is a winner.

McGovern won elections, just not when he ran for the presidency. Trump hasn't been elected to anything yet. Can you supply an example of someone behaving like him and then getting elected? The closest I can think of is Jesse Ventura, and that's not very close. Maybe if you count foreign leaders like Berlusconi...

Teddy Roosevelt would be one and he also lost because of his Bull Moosedness.

Eisenhower to a degree because he was courted by both parties to take their nomination.

A...

[dldelancey]

Adam asked:

So do women, as a sex/class, have psychological, physical and sociological reactions that occur during her menstrual cycle.

Are there clearly definable time frames within that cycle where the reactions lead to negative behavior,

To the first question, yes, but only in regards to psychological and physical reactions, not sociological.

To the second question, no. Women do not have control over the biology of their bodies, but they do have control over their behavior. More accurately, I would say there are clearly definable time frames within that cycle where the reactions might lead to negative thoughts or emotions.

[syrakusos]

In her "Louder with Crowder" interview, Carly Fiorina pointed out that no one asks if a man is unfit to serve in the Oval Office because of his hormones.

Back in April and May, I went through two weekends of boot camp ("regional basic orientation training") and the sergeants - all males - acted in stereotypical fashion, yelling at anyone for any mistake, displaying overt anger and aggression in order to intimidate and control. "Where is your battle buddy?! Answer me!!" No one questioned it. (Well, I do.) So...

What if the sergeants had been women, not just army women, but stereotypical females. The platoon leader is short one soldier. (The soldier went to the head without informing her leader.) The sergeant get huffy... starts to cry... "How could you be so inconsiderate of my feelings..." See? That would be ridiculous.

So, too, is male aggression ridiculous: truly, subject to ridicule. Yet we accept it, or many people do. I do not.

A man's levels of androgen and testosterone are not constant, any more than cholesterol or any other chemicals are, even if you have a "set point" about which you fluctuate. Just put "male hormone cycle" in your search engine and read to your heart's content.

Of the overt signs, perhaps the easiest is male pattern baldness. You see a guy like that and you are looking at someone who could go off his rocker at the least provocation. Even if he does not attack, he will yell, raise and wave his arms, and dance about in a display of territoriality. Mindful of your own safety, it can be amusing to watch.

[Selene]

A man's levels of androgen and testosterone are not constant, any more than cholesterol or any other chemicals are, even if you have a "set point" about which you fluctuate. Just put "male hormone cycle" in your search engine and read to your heart's content.

Of the overt signs, perhaps the easiest is male pattern baldness. You see a guy like that and you are looking at someone who could go off his rocker at the least provocation. Even if he does not attack, he will yell, raise and wave his arms, and dance about in a display of territoriality. Mindful of your own safety, it can be amusing to watch.

Wow, did you know Yul Brenner personally?

<<<<what happens when some OLers read your posts, not DD though and that goes a long way in my book...

A...

[syrakusos]

Sorry, Selene, I see that the humor was lost on you.

Of the overt signs, perhaps the easiest is male pattern baldness. You see a guy like that and you are looking at someone who could go off his rocker at the least provocation. Even if he does not attack, he will yell, raise and wave his arms, and dance about in a display of territoriality. Mindful of your own safety, it can be amusing to watch.

[Selene]

Sorry, Selene, I see that the humor was lost on you.

Of the overt signs, perhaps the easiest is male pattern baldness. You see a guy like that and you are looking at someone who could go off his rocker at the least provocation. Even if he does not attack, he will yell, raise and wave his arms, and dance about in a display of territoriality. Mindful of your own safety, it can be amusing to watch.

Why? And where did you drop it?

[Mikee]

In her "Louder with Crowder" interview, Carly Fiorina pointed out that no one asks if a man is unfit to serve in the Oval Office because of his hormones.

Back in April and May, I went through two weekends of boot camp ("regional basic orientation training") and the sergeants - all males - acted in stereotypical fashion, yelling at anyone for any mistake, displaying overt anger and aggression in order to intimidate and control. "Where is your battle buddy?! Answer me!!" No one questioned it. (Well, I do.) So...

What if the sergeants had been women, not just army women, but stereotypical females. The platoon leader is short one soldier. (The soldier went to the head without informing her leader.) The sergeant get huffy... starts to cry... "How could you be so inconsiderate of my feelings..." See? That would be ridiculous.

So, too, is male aggression ridiculous: truly, subject to ridicule. Yet we accept it, or many people do. I do not.

A man's levels of androgen and testosterone are not constant, any more than cholesterol or any other chemicals are, even if you have a "set point" about which you fluctuate. Just put "male hormone cycle" in your search engine and read to your heart's content.

Of the overt signs, perhaps the easiest is male pattern baldness. You see a guy like that and you are looking at someone who could go off his rocker at the least provocation. Even if he does not attack, he will yell, raise and wave his arms, and dance about in a display of territoriality. Mindful of your own safety, it can be amusing to watch.

Sometimes blowing off steam is surprisingly calming afterwards. And a temper tantrum is just a temper tantrum. Not necessarily aggression, but perhaps a reaction to aggression. Or cutting a piece of trim too short and having to go get another one... As my wife says "the wood didn't do anything to you..." "Thanks dear, but I felt better, can't explain it". The adrenalin has to go somewhere.

[dldelancey]

In her "Louder with Crowder" interview, Carly Fiorina pointed out that no one asks if a man is unfit to serve in the Oval Office because of his hormones.

Back in April and May, I went through two weekends of boot camp ("regional basic orientation training") and the sergeants - all males - acted in stereotypical fashion, yelling at anyone for any mistake, displaying overt anger and aggression in order to intimidate and control. "Where is your battle buddy?! Answer me!!" No one questioned it. (Well, I do.) So...

What if the sergeants had been women, not just army women, but stereotypical females. The platoon leader is short one soldier. (The soldier went to the head without informing her leader.) The sergeant get huffy... starts to cry... "How could you be so inconsiderate of my feelings..." See? That would be ridiculous.

So, too, is male aggression ridiculous: truly, subject to ridicule. Yet we accept it, or many people do. I do not.

A man's levels of androgen and testosterone are not constant, any more than cholesterol or any other chemicals are, even if you have a "set point" about which you fluctuate. Just put "male hormone cycle" in your search engine and read to your heart's content.

Of the overt signs, perhaps the easiest is male pattern baldness. You see a guy like that and you are looking at someone who could go off his rocker at the least provocation. Even if he does not attack, he will yell, raise and wave his arms, and dance about in a display of territoriality. Mindful of your own safety, it can be amusing to watch.

Sometimes blowing off steam is surprisingly calming afterwards. And a temper tantrum is just a temper tantrum. Not necessarily aggression, but perhaps a reaction to aggression. Or cutting a piece of trim too short and having to go get another one... As my wife says "the wood didn't do anything to you..." "Thanks dear, but I felt better, can't explain it". The adrenalin has to go somewhere.

Hasn't your wife, or any other woman you've known, ever told you that she needed a good cry? Same kind of release you've just described with a sense of calm and/or renewed energy afterwards. I think the point MEM is trying to make is that many people find the inexplicable male version of this (whatever damage you inflicted on the trim you cut too short) acceptable while the female version (a good long cry) unacceptable, even if she does her crying in private.

Adam, I really don't understand your reaction to MEM's points. What specifically do you object to?

[Mikee]

In her "Louder with Crowder" interview, Carly Fiorina pointed out that no one asks if a man is unfit to serve in the Oval Office because of his hormones.

Back in April and May, I went through two weekends of boot camp ("regional basic orientation training") and the sergeants - all males - acted in stereotypical fashion, yelling at anyone for any mistake, displaying overt anger and aggression in order to intimidate and control. "Where is your battle buddy?! Answer me!!" No one questioned it. (Well, I do.) So...

What if the sergeants had been women, not just army women, but stereotypical females. The platoon leader is short one soldier. (The soldier went to the head without informing her leader.) The sergeant get huffy... starts to cry... "How could you be so inconsiderate of my feelings..." See? That would be ridiculous.

So, too, is male aggression ridiculous: truly, subject to ridicule. Yet we accept it, or many people do. I do not.

A man's levels of androgen and testosterone are not constant, any more than cholesterol or any other chemicals are, even if you have a "set point" about which you fluctuate. Just put "male hormone cycle" in your search engine and read to your heart's content.

Of the overt signs, perhaps the easiest is male pattern baldness. You see a guy like that and you are looking at someone who could go off his rocker at the least provocation. Even if he does not attack, he will yell, raise and wave his arms, and dance about in a display of territoriality. Mindful of your own safety, it can be amusing to watch.

Sometimes blowing off steam is surprisingly calming afterwards. And a temper tantrum is just a temper tantrum. Not necessarily aggression, but perhaps a reaction to aggression. Or cutting a piece of trim too short and having to go get another one... As my wife says "the wood didn't do anything to you..." "Thanks dear, but I felt better, can't explain it". The adrenalin has to go somewhere.

Hasn't your wife, or any other woman you've known, ever told you that she needed a good cry? Same kind of release you've just described with a sense of calm and/or renewed energy afterwards. I think the point MEM is trying to make is that many people find the inexplicable male version of this (whatever damage you inflicted on the trim you cut too short) acceptable while the female version (a good long cry) unacceptable, even if she does her crying in private.

Adam, I really don't understand your reaction to MEM's points. What specifically do you object to?

On the rare times I've made my wife cry I feel like I've been speared through the heart. The tears of a woman have far more power, exponentially so, than the somewhat amusing (many people think so) temper tantrums of a man. Not answering your question (or MEMs) I know, but it occurs to me to say that. Objectivity doesn't seem to work for me on this problem. BTW, my wife doesn't deem the damage I do to innocent pieces of trim acceptable. I'm practicing meditation and deep breathing these days. Seems quite healthful.

[Selene]

Adam, I really don't understand your reaction to MEM's points. What specifically do you object to?

D...

I am trying to "drill down" [not a favorite phrase of mine, however, it is increasing in usage] into this psycho sexual menstrual meme and particularly, in terms of politics.

Additionally, this is a raging theme in world gender feminism.

Free bleeding for example has some real roots, however, it was allegedly started by women in 2004 as a joke.

http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~obsidian/clothpads/freebleeding.html

The Red Tent, not a joke.

The PMS meme walks with all this.

I felt MEM's bringing male testosterone behavior into the conversation was distracting.

A...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Adam,

I don't have time to look this up right now, but within the last few days, there was a well-publicized marathon somewhere. One of the star female contestants was in her cycle and ran without a tampon, allowing the blood to gradually stain her sports pants and go down her legs as she ran. Her purpose was to make a "statement."

I didn't read any further, so I don't know what her idea of that statement was. (I could speculate, I suppose, but who cares?)

If you are interested in looking further for your drilling down, Google this and I am sure you will come across it. Sorry, off the top of my head I don't remember her name, the name of the marathon or even the media outlet. I do remember it was mainstream.

Michael

[syrakusos]

I felt MEM's bringing male testosterone behavior into the conversation was distracting.

Selene, I cannot believe that the main point (humor aside) was lost on you. It certainly cannot have been lost on everyone. Mikee and Dee seemed quite clear about it. I will spell it out for you: We (men) make an issue of PMS, but no one makes an issue of male aggression.

Some years back, I went to an anger management counselor. Mikee said, "sometimes the adrenalin has to go somewhere." The counselor addressed that: no it does not. We used to believe, he said, that "blowing off steam" reduces anger. It does not. Displays of violence are self-validating and self-reinforcing. It is a "high." And it is not necessary.

Repression is not the right response either. That counselor said - and I believe that it is consonant with Nathaniel Branden and others - that you must identify honestly the nature of your feelings, their cause and your response to that. This defuses the anger, removes its power.

As Dee said: "Women do not have control over the biology of their bodies, but they do have control over their behavior." That applies to men, also.

Kolinahr (ko-li-naar), as a word, described both the Vulcan ritual by which all remaining vestigial emotions were demonstrated as purged, and the mental discipline whereby this state was subsequently maintained. -- Memory Alpha.

[Selene]

I felt MEM's bringing male testosterone behavior into the conversation was distracting.

Selene, I cannot believe that the main point (humor aside) was lost on you. It certainly cannot have been lost on everyone. Mikee and Dee seemed quite clear about it. I will spell it out for you: We (men) make an issue of PMS, but no one makes an issue of male aggression.

And this is why I do not bother to discuss much with you anymore.

On two, separate occasions in the last year(?), you have misquoted me.

I have responded and asked you to correct it and nothing.

Now, I understand that you are a busy person, particularly on-line. Therefore, I filed it in my memory and engaged with you rarely.

Now you reminded me of the other reason.

Speak for yourself when you say "we" men. You do not speak for me.

Every woman I know who are either CEO's, upper management, professional, etc. who work with female staff, above and below them share with me that it is a problem that strangely, only effects women.

Imagine that.

So, since at least Jonathan and I do not share your sentiments, speak for yourself and leave me out of your "we."

Thanks.

A...

[Selene]

Adam,

I don't have time to look this up right now, but within the last few days, there was a well-publicized marathon somewhere. One of the star female contestants was in her cycle and ran without a tampon, allowing the blood to gradually stain her sports pants and go down her legs as she ran. Her purpose was to make a "statement."

I didn't read any further, so I don't know what her idea of that statement was. (I could speculate, I suppose, but who cares?)

If you are interested in looking further for your drilling down, Google this and I am sure you will come across it. Sorry, off the top of my head I don't remember her name, the name of the marathon or even the media outlet. I do remember it was mainstream.

Michael

Michael:

It was allegedly a Harvard "Professor" who ran in this weekends Marathon in England.

It was to make a world wide statement of support for women.

Add additional agenda items to that.

A...

[Mikee]

Some years back, I went to an anger management counselor. Mikee said, "sometimes the adrenalin has to go somewhere." The counselor addressed that: no it does not. We used to believe, he said, that "blowing off steam" reduces anger. It does not. Displays of violence are self-validating and self-reinforcing. It is a "high." And it is not necessary.

Repression is not the right response either. That counselor said - and I believe that it is consonant with Nathaniel Branden and others - that you must identify honestly the nature of your feelings, their cause and your response to that. This defuses the anger, removes its power.

As Dee said: "Women do not have control over the biology of their bodies, but they do have control over their behavior." That applies to men, also.

Did you need counseling because you were acting violently towards another person? Getting angry about something is not an unnatural act. Behaving violently towards others except in self defense is. An anger management counselor must intervene in that case, that's their job. But simply being angry about something and showing it with no propensity or intention of being violent does not need an intervention. Being visibly angry and raising ones voice or even breaking something is the equivalent for men of women crying. Perhaps because it is inappropriate for men to cry, culturally or innate. It is not violent behavior. Violent behavior not in self defense, that needs to be controlled. "Defusing the anger"...sounds like a euphemism for "repression". You can't trick Mother Nature. I definitely feel calmer after a blow-up, even just "ARRRGGGGHHH". Yeah, that will do it.

[Selene]

This issue of menstruation was treated tribally in the Bible, according to The Red Tent novel...

The Red Tent is a novel by Anita Diamant, published in 1997 by Wyatt Books for St. Martin's Press. It is a first-person narrative that tells the story of Dinah, daughter of Jacob and sister of Joseph. She is a minor character in the Bible, but the author has broadened her story.[1] The book's title refers to the tent in which women of Jacob's tribe must, according to the ancient law, take refuge while menstruating or giving birth, and in which they find mutual support and encouragement from their mothers, sisters and aunts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Tent

[dldelancey]

I felt MEM's bringing male testosterone behavior into the conversation was distracting.

It's your topic, so I can't comment on what you feel is a distraction from it, I guess. However, I personally think there is a great deal of value in discussing these topics as a unit rather than separately.

So, since at least Jonathan and I do not share your sentiments, speak for yourself and leave me out of your "we."

Unfortunately, you and Jonathan are the exception. Disregarding the fact that there is a "we" that MEM can truthfully and factually refer to as a generalization ignores the struggle that women face entirely. If there weren't such a "we," the point would be moot.

[Selene]

I felt MEM's bringing male testosterone behavior into the conversation was distracting.

It's your topic, so I can't comment on what you feel is a distraction from it, I guess. However, I personally think there is a great deal of value in discussing these topics as a unit rather than separately.

So, since at least Jonathan and I do not share your sentiments, speak for yourself and leave me out of your "we."

Unfortunately, you and Jonathan are the exception. Disregarding the fact that there is a "we" that MEM can truthfully and factually refer to as a generalization ignores the struggle that women face entirely. If there weren't such a "we," the point would be moot.

I agree with both your points.

Personally, I never allow men to act that way at a meeting or negotiation and I make it clear if they do.

I will take the consequences.

However, it is a double edged sword.

We agree that at least a plurality, probably most men have that conditioning.

Therefore, can the same generalization be made about women's patterns of behavior?

A...

[Jules Troy]

When my wife says "Oh Steve I'm sorry you were right, I was wrong"...I run out and buy a lotto ticket..