Romance Killers


CNA

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How Men Screw Up Romance

Some men get it and others just don't have a clue and are totally oblivious. They are either smooth talkers or bumbling idiots, from great pick up lines to downright rude and offensive pick up lines, from perfect nights of seduction and romance to going to a luxurious dinner at McDonald's and then sneaking into a local theater or going to the Spam museum. There are many different forms of Romance Killers from the introduction, dating, and established relationships. This isn't just confined to men. Women also make mistakes that are killers of relationships and/or romance such as the woman that has your entire lives planned out, venue for the wedding, children's names picked, and so forth by the second or third date.

Here are just a few things of what men can do that are romance killers and are a serious turn off. When meeting someone for the first time or even in an established relationship, hygiene is a definite must. Bad breath is a serious turn off. Make sure to brush your teeth, use Listerine, and most effective for fresh breathe is to brush your tongue well, even brushing your tongue while squirting Listerine on your tongue will do wonders for bad breathe. In some cases if that bad, a dentist appointment may be in order. Body odor, rough dirty hands, dirt under fingernails, long fingernails are also turn offs. I am sure you would want your girl clean with a very sexy scent. A great smelling man is also very sexy and a huge turn on. I really don't want to smell the bad BO with the smell of beer or buffalo wings or whatever else is in the mix.

When you go in for the first kiss, please don't jam the tongue down the throat. Well, jamming the tongue down the throat period is a turn off. Soft and seductive is perfect. Also inappropriate touching is a turn off. Just because she is talking to you, that doesn't mean she's given you permission to touch her in a seductive way such as softly running your finger along her jaw line or on the side of her neck or along her collar bone. Or the most dreaded one for me is when standing there talking with friends or what have you and this total stranger approaches you from behind and he gently grabs your waist with both hands and lingers there for a bit. It's like, excuse me, I don't know you, haven't given you permission to touch me, get your hands off of me. If I like you and I am receptive to you and there is a definite connection, I don't mind. But a total stranger, definitely NOT. Some women might enjoy this but I don't. When first meeting someone, the overly eager touching is offensive and rude, especially for me. If you're an affectionate guy who loves to touch, first of all, make sure she likes you and is receptive to you. If you guys are hitting it off and she is open to allowing you to touch her in a more seductive way, then go for it. Also lightly touching her lower back as you walk and guide her to her table or as she passes you to walk through a door or what have you is a major turn on for some women. This alone can make some women melt. It's seductive and is an attentive gentlemanly act.

Since this can be educational for both men and women when it comes to romance from the introduction, dating, and established relationships, I hope others will put in their 2 cents as to what they would consider a romance killer for them or even what they would consider a turn on.

Angie

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I found it oddly amusing that Angie put up a piece on the horrors of halitosis while Victor put up his rape by engraved invitation piece. One pushes forward as the other pulls away.... Oh, the dance of seduction...

I was reminded of one of those little things kids sing:

Shoo, be gone. Your breath is too strong.

Wait, come back. You need a Tic-Tac.

Not one, not two, but the whole pack!

Ok, seriously, just in case you happen to meet someone, it is a good idea to always leave the house clean and fresh. If you are really in the market, stop smoking. It stinks.

Kat

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It's clear we should keep Roark away from Angie.

Nothing wrong with very rough sex or rape fantasies WITHOUT fear, terror, and anxiety and as long as it is consentual and *submitting* is done at the very beginning and NOT towards the end of the act, nor would I want to inflict grave bodily injury upon the man I am attracted to and care about deeply with a lamp. Yes, Roark would have been in for a world of hurt and the lamp would have made its intended point of impact.

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It’s not really a case of where she wants to "be right" about some point, but to be respected for her thoughts.

Damn straight. Respect for thoughts and own *rational* conclusions, decisions, and most of all her own consentual experiences with it and not to undermine that with other people's rationalizations who have absolutely no experience with it nor an understanding.

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It’s not really a case of where she wants to "be right" about some point, but to be respected for her thoughts.

Damn straight. Respect for thoughts and own *rational* conclusions, decisions, and most of all her own consentual experiences with it and not to undermine that with other people's rationalizations who have absolutely no experience with it nor an understanding.

Maybe you want to re-think that lamp thing, it could knock some sense into me. :unsure:

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Two HUGE turn-offs:

Being touched while the toucher's mind is elsewhere. Drives me crazy. It's like being poked at with sticks.

Being touched in such a way that it's clear that the toucher is trying to please me and isn't enjoying it himself as opposed to being touched in a way that it's clear that the toucher is enjoying it himself.

Judith

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I'm trying to reconcile bad breath and body odor with a philosophical outlook on romance in my mind and the attempt is simply failing.

Any thoughts about clipping toenails? Grooming nose hairs? Cleaning earwax?

Dayaamm!

:)

Michael

Hi Mike, first of all, I want to apologize to you for bringing a private debate between me and Victor regarding Rand's sex scene in the Fountainhead to OL that turned a bit more personal. My still being upset over some of the events lastnight, DF's post triggered a rather nasty response from me but ultimately it has been resolved.

As for this thread, Victor and I have been talking quite a bit about romance, sex, relationships, and so forth. Victor ran across the link I put up and I thought it was rather funny. We both decided that it would give some insight for men and women as well that are reading OL on how to keep the romance going and what can kill a romance, what aspects women find repulsive and what aspects men find repulsive which there have been a few posts. But I think given the nature of the subject, interest is not there.

At any rate, I apologize for my recent posts and bringing a private debate that deteriorated between me and Victor to OL.

Angie

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Two HUGE turn-offs:

Being touched while the toucher's mind is elsewhere. Drives me crazy. It's like being poked at with sticks.

Being touched in such a way that it's clear that the toucher is trying to please me and isn't enjoying it himself as opposed to being touched in a way that it's clear that the toucher is enjoying it himself.

Judith

Judith,

You mean, you want a selfish toucher!?

Victor

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Two HUGE turn-offs:

Being touched while the toucher's mind is elsewhere. Drives me crazy. It's like being poked at with sticks.

Being touched in such a way that it's clear that the toucher is trying to please me and isn't enjoying it himself as opposed to being touched in a way that it's clear that the toucher is enjoying it himself.

Judith

Judith,

You mean, you want a selfish toucher!?

Victor

Bingo. In fact, a guy named Bob Schwartz wrote a book called something like "The One Hour Orgasm" in which he discussed a concept called "Taking Touch", along these exact lines. :)

Judith

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~ By the 3rd post I could see that this was a 'disagreement' (ahem!) in the 'sex-wars' territory.

~ Trust me on this :lol: : I speak from experience; all I could really picture was Frasier and Niles vehemently arguing the other to the point of badgering the other to 'agree', over some 'fine point' of what AIDA really wanted...and their dad trying to bring them both 'back down to earth' about opera and life.

~ 'Agree to (be able to) disagree' on many varied things, as to their being interpretable this-way vs that-way, or even to their worth in considering/discussing; to be accurate, about some things, not all. Just don't let TRIVIA get confused with IMPORTANT disagreements. Clearly you're not talking about 'having children' or 'finances' here.

~ Let it go...so that you don't "let IT go."

IDIC

LLAP

J:D

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~ Sticking literally to the...er...ostensible subjects, as Kat says, yes, 'if you're in the market', personal hygiene is a sine qua non just for 1st impressions; it's also such after catching one you wish to keep!

~ However, especially regarding the latter, can we say that this applies to the female as well as the male? Both sides too often 'take the other for granted' here.

~ As far as 'lines' go, if you catch anything with one...the catch is never worth such a ('lines'?) cheap bait; but, most learn that the time-wastingly hard way (as most things in life are learned, I guess.)

~ Victor brings up the point about a seeming necessity for the male of having readiness to say "I was wrong" for the female to lessen their hostility in an emotional disagreement. --- My life-experience agrees with his perspective. Most females are less able to say such than males. (Oh, boy; will this get responses!)

LLAP

J:D

Edited by John Dailey
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~ Sticking literally to the...er...ostensible subjects, as Kat says, yes, 'if you're in the market', personal hygiene is a sine qua non just for 1st impressions; it's also such after catching one you wish to keep!

~ However, especially regarding the latter, can we say that this applies to the female as well as the male? Both sides too often 'take the other for granted' here.

~ As far as 'lines' go, if you catch anything with one...the catch is never worth the cheap bait; but, most learn that the time-wastingly hard way (as most things in life are learned, I guess.)

~ Victor brings up the point about a seeming necessity for the male of having readiness to say "I was wrong" for the female to lessen their hostility in an emotional disagreement. --- My life-experience agrees with his perspective. Most females are less able to say such than males. (Oh, boy; will this get responses!)

LLAP

J:D

Despite what I've said in private elsewhere, I have to respond to this. Just to let you know, I was the one that was WRONG, although a very fine line has been drawn regarding what was being discussed. I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. As for a topic such as what prompted the debate, it's ultimately not what caused the problem. It turned a bit more personal but focused around the topic being discussed. It has nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong, who wins or who loses. It's about respecting the other person whether you agree or disagree, respecting their thoughts, respecting their conclusions, respecting their knowledge in many different areas such as criminology and law and profiling on top of it, and the most important aspect is respecting that they have personal experience with it so this person would have a better undertanding, knowledge, what and why it is being done over someone that has no experience with it nor an understanding and all conclusions are based on rationalizations. I do not mind disagreements by any means. But I do NOT tolerate disrespect. It was unintentional and I know this but the other events that surrounded it compounded the issue even more.

So I will say this I was WRONG and Victor was RIGHT. But my understanding of a few key fields has offered me a bit different perspective, it is what it is but is later canceled out.

Edited by CNA
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Whoa. Be still my heart! A public admission from a woman that she was wrong! Is this reality? I’m on an Objectivist site and I’m wondering if this is reality or an illusion. You know, after the morass of it all, I forget what I could be right about, honey. Do let me know, please. It’s so rare that I’m ever right around here. (Oh, I’m so bad). :cool:

Edited by Victor Pross
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Whoa. Be still my heart! A public admission from a woman that she was wrong! Is this reality? I’m on an Objectivist site and I’m wondering if this is reality or an illusion.

I have to say that NTs are the only personality type I've ever noticed being ready and willing and sometimes eager to admit that they're wrong. That's because we're more interested in finding out the truth than in power or emotion games. When I find out I was wrong about something, I can't wait to tell the other person about it. My only reason for arguing about stuff is to get to the truth. Am I weird or what? :tongue:

I've never noticed any particular difference between the sexes regarding willingness to admit fault. They're about equal. That's probably why each accuses the other of being worse about it. :)

Judith

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Whoa. Be still my heart! A public admission from a woman that she was wrong! Is this reality? I’m on an Objectivist site and I’m wondering if this is reality or an illusion.

I have to say that NTs are the only personality type I've ever noticed being ready and willing and sometimes eager to admit that they're wrong. That's because we're more interested in finding out the truth than in power or emotion games. When I find out I was wrong about something, I can't wait to tell the other person about it. My only reason for arguing about stuff is to get to the truth. Am I weird or what? :tongue:

I've never noticed any particular difference between the sexes regarding willingness to admit fault. They're about equal. That's probably why each accuses the other of being worse about it. :)

Judith

Judith,

Taking my tongue out of my cheek, I can say that Angie is an extremely intellectually independent and honest person, but she is also a woman with a fierce stubborn bent (as she and I freely admitted) and who has an equally fierce pride along with it. God knows, we all have been with partners (or know of people) who don’t care too much about the truth, but who, rather, argue for argument’s sake, and want to be seen as “right” regardless of the facts of the matter.

In hindsight, our little lover’s quarrel sprung from the different set of eyes we had on the “rape scene” in The Fountainhead: Angie saw it under the jurisprudent fuse of a legal mind, (in which case, Roark’s ass would be in jail if Dominique pressed charges) and I saw it from an artistic plot-devise pont of view; I saw it for the forceful romance it held. (Still, I have called the Hotel Angie and I will be meeting at to have them remove the lamps). :turned:

-Victor

Edited by Victor Pross
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In hindsight, our little lover’s quarrel sprung from the different set of eyes we had on the “rape scene” in The Fountainhead: Angie saw it under the jurisprudent fuse of a legal mind, (in which case, Roark’s ass would be in jail if Dominique pressed charges) and I saw it from an artistic plot-devise pont of view; I saw it for the forceful romance it held.

Well, in that case, you're both right, of course.

See? It pays to persist and get to "The Truth"! :)

Judith

Edited by Judith
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Taking my tongue out of my cheek, I can say that Angie is an extremely intellectually independent and honest person, but she is also a woman with a fierce stubborn steak...

Victor,

Does she have more tolerant fries or salad?

:)

Michael

M,

I corrected my post even before you posted yours---now the joke falls flat. Remove! :)

-V

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