Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 For the record, my point is not to criticize Carly. I like her.It is to criticize her marketing.She's not good at growing a public with swamp-scrapping. She never has been good at that.So I believe she should grow her base with what she is good at.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Your examples about Trump are of self promotion, gaming the system, buying politicians and bureaucrats, and supporting eminent domain. He will not shrink the government. He will expand the government a great deal, and spend an lot of other people's money. The is no more substance to "Make America Great Again" than there was to Barack Obama's "Hope and Change". The country will get a Vladimir Putin version of "Hope and Change".Your remarks about Carly Fiorina are so far off they are laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 You think I promote "Groupthink"? Kiss my ass.Mike,You're a regular, so you get a pass for now.But, no, I don't think you promote groupthink.I think you are seeking a group for Carly, though, and are pissed you don't find it here.I, also, don't think you wanted a serious answer to your question about Trump. I think you wanted some things to pick at.Learn persuasion if you want to persuade.Bitching is not persuading. "Kiss my ass" did not change my opinion one iota about her. Nor about Trump. And, frankly, I don't think you convinced any reader to change their mind about anything.If you want a Carly club, go to where there are people who like to join Carly clubs. That ain't here.You don't like that I see what I see? And that I say it?Tough.I don't like a lot of things, too.I am persuading. You are not.What do you want to do about it? Just say "kiss my ass"? That certainly is easier than doing any work, isn't it? This is individualism-land. It's easy to give lip service to individualism. It's hard to deal with the doing part when someone disagrees with you and is effective.You disagree with me. That's OK by me. You're still welcome here despite being really rude.Why?I believe in individualism.In practice, not just in words.Think about it.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 You insult me and instead of an apology you "give me a pass"...for now. Enjoy your active fantasy life. No real conversation about facts is possible with you. It's your home, enjoy it. You are welcome to delete anything I have ever posted on your site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Enjoy your active fantasy life. No real conversation about facts is possible with you.Man, if that doesn't sound like an appeal to groupthink to me...Peer pressure and intimidation don't work here.Try Perigo. That's his style...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Perhaps, readers could find some more Carly quotes. Peter, I just found a quote about Carly. Does this count? I just realized that if you listen to Carly Fiorina for more than ten minutes straight, you develop a massive headache. She has zero chance!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 9, 2015 (Imagine devil emoticon here. ) Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Frankly, I like ass kissing--if it's literally my ass.Mike, Michael is into marketing and techniques of persuasion. He's evaluating these folk by such measurements. Ideas have to follow--Trump's and Carly's. I don't think Trump has any to speak of--not important ones, but if Carly doesn't know how to communicate, she'll be gone too. Please count to ten and chill out a little bit. The presidential fun has just begun.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlighting Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Common sense & decency dictate you don't tell the owner of a forum you regularly post in to kiss my ass.-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 If Mike reads this, here's a Carly Fiorina thread on Facebook courtesy of Bidibob (Robert Bidinotto).I guess Robert is still O-Land enough to count as O-Land.And he thinks she might be a female Reagan.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 I think Carly could be Reagan and Thatcher rolled into one. I've been donating to her campaign for three months today. I guess Robert and I are on the same page. Damn good company I say. Thanks for letting me know.The "Michael Erickson" that posts on Carly's fb entries; that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Mike wrote: The "Michael Erickson" that posts on Carly's fb entries; that's me. end quote.I get that. I use different names to access different sites or to deal with family but up front I always let them know I am Peter Taylor. I have little need for subterfuge. However, a satirist or political columnist mining for news might use a phony name when going to Objectivist Living. If they get jokes or strategies from the public domain, they do not need to pay royalties or be accused of plagiarism. I would not mind having something I said, unattributed, and broadcast on the five on Fox. I would love having something I said be repeated by the lovely Kennedy on Fox Business Network.I am surprised at the SUBDUED vitriol emanating from the Carly and Donald camps. I thought they would complement each other in several key ways. Wrong. I don’t think their Potus VP vibe is kaput but it is now very doubtful.If Trump is on his way out who would benefit? Carly as a completely political outsider and a member of the female persuasion to counter the female - ness of the Old Hickory Clinton voters. Like Trump, who else is a fire brand who want to shake up the establishment AND MEANS IT? Ted Cruz.When The Donald flames out, Carly and Ted will be walking on sunshine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I thought that Ethel had passed....I would love having something I said be repeated by the lovely Kennedy on Fox Business Network.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Mike wrote: The "Michael Erickson" that posts on Carly's fb entries; that's me. end quote.I get that. I use different names to access different sites or to deal with family but up front I always let them know I am Peter Taylor. I have little need for subterfuge. However, a satirist or political columnist mining for news might use a phony name when going to Objectivist Living. If they get jokes or strategies from the public domain, they do not need to pay royalties or be accused of plagiarism. I would not mind having something I said, unattributed, and broadcast on the five on Fox. I would love having something I said be repeated by the lovely Kennedy on Fox Business Network.I am surprised at the SUBDUED vitriol emanating from the Carly and Donald camps. I thought they would complement each other in several key ways. Wrong. I don’t think their Potus VP vibe is kaput but it is now very doubtful.If Trump is on his way out who would benefit? Carly as a completely political outsider and a member of the female persuasion to counter the female - ness of the Old Hickory Clinton voters. Like Trump, who else is a fire brand who want to shake up the establishment AND MEANS IT? Ted Cruz.When The Donald flames out, Carly and Ted will be walking on sunshine.I like Cruz, though I gave more pluses to Carson in the debate.I don't ever expect to be quoted by anyone, but I got 68 likes (facebook) for this comment:"zero-based budgeting"...like keeping a set of books that can be reconciled like every business is required to do "under penalty of law". Why do government bureaucrats and politicians get to operate outside of the law? I.E.: insider trading is not applied to congress critters, that's why some of them get so rich doing nothing. Go Carly!Gee, you think a whole bunch of people think the United States government is corrupt or what? Not the government itself but the people that have preempted it for personal power and gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Mike asked: Why do government bureaucrats and politicians get to operate outside of the law? End quote A few years ago before it was totally illegal, New Yorks Senator Chuck Schumer was going to government meetings where he would learn things that would affect the stock market. He would then inform his buddies on the West Coast where the markets had not yet closed, who informed their buddies in different international time zones where the markets were just opening and on down the corrupt pipeline. We supposedly changed the law so he could not do that again. Spoiler alert. I am only a few pages into a new book. I am reading a novel written by a lawyer named Martini. I will try not to give too much away. Remember the big US push against hidden bank accounts in Switzerland, The Cayman Islands and other places? Since international wire transfers are done in US dollars and go thru the Federal Reserve we used that fact as leverage against the Swiss. No new transfers unless you turn over those Nazi accounts from WWII. Then our clout was used against all US citizens who were willing to move their assets out of America so they would not be taxed. People were willing to pay fees and collect no interest just to avoid taxes and higher brackets. So those guys must be mobsters and drug dealers, right? Cayman Islands, give them up or we will crush you. Yet, CONNECTED, U.S. citizens were not harassed. Their money now sits there in offshore accounts but they are protected by whoever is in power. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 The Golden Rule, the man with the gold makes the rules.One of the reasons not to have a centralized power that will be owned.The incredible concept that our Founders created was to make the power conflicting and in constant tension so as to prevent the centralization of power particularly in an Executive Branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 After the "debates," Fiorina is looking good. She's said some great things, and she's even gone after Trump for Trump's having gone after Kelly.I don't know much about Fiorina, so I've been reading up on her online. In the "debates," Trump was asked, twice and quite accusingly, about some of his past business failures and bankruptcies, and about the losses that investors suffered because of them. His successes were not focused on. "With that record," Chris Wallace asked Trump, "why should we trust you to run the nation's business?" I haven't seen anyone asking Fiorina the same type of questions, which is odd since it appears that she is almost universally known as the "worst tech CEO of all time." She is said to have been hated by many of her board members at HP, that her policies alienated loyal customers, that she was vicious to her employees, and that she received bonuses and a golden parachute despite her miserable performance of laying off tens of thousands of employees, and of losing half of the company's value during her reign.How would she do if confronted by the same type of questions that were asked of Trump? Does anyone here know if she has addressed the notion that she was the "worst tech CEO of all time"? I'd love to hear her side of the story.Perhaps if she continues to attack Trump, he will bring up her business record and ask her to defend it?J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Great news! President Forina traumatizes Federal bureaucracy. They hate her guts for the cuts! Thousands reassigned to None, Alaska. No phones, no Internet, no files, no snail mail. Just food and water shoved under the door each day (except the weekends) and a desk and a chair. (Raw whale meat free from the natives.)--Brantshe was a lousy CEO but apparently also a victim of sexism at HP (but I cannot document) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I'm not a fan of Fiorina's tenure as HP CEO.Her approach was to stick it to the customer (with smaller ink cartridges at much higher prices and mountains of spyware) and make money by corporate raiding (Compaq).I like her better as a politician.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Great news! President Forina traumatizes Federal bureaucracy. They hate her guts for the cuts!--Brantshe was a lousy CEO but apparently also a victim of sexism at HP (but I cannot document)If anyone can document sexism, or anything else that is similarly vicious, against Fiorina, please post it. I'm very open to giving her the benefit of the doubt. She was a first among women, and I can well imagine that there were men who didn't like it, and who might have done everything they could to stand in her way or sabotage her efforts, or to set her up to take the blame for their own failures. Please, anyone who has followed her career, pipe up.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I can only say she bought up Compaq Computer and that was stupid on its face at the time.--Brantyou don't need a lot of brains to be a very good President--you need great character and values--but you'd better have a lot of brains to properly run a great corporation--(the last two smartest Presidents were Clinton and Nixon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I can only say she bought up Compaq Computer and that was stupid on its face at the time.--Brant At the time. But did it end up being a smart move in the long run?J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Great speech at a great location.[download the pdf file for easier reading]Thanks! I downloaded that and archived it into a folder that I have for "Political Speeches." I also followed the other links you offered. She is highly intelligent and highly capable. As for her ability to draw voters, I leave aside the "shmooze-em-or-lose-em" theory of advertising. Yes, I understand that Mountain Dew wants you to believe that opening one will bring the X-games to your porch. Before we moved from Michigan, back in 2010, Rick Snyder ran for governor with ads on NUMB3RS calling himself "the toughest nerd in politics." It was not his only campaign line. And the disastrous state of the state pretty much doomed the incumbent Democrat. Nonetheless, in our time, here and now, with Big Bang Theory being the leading prime time show, there is no reason to shy away from being smart -- and she is smart. She has a clear vision and she articulates it well.Thanks, again, for the insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I can only say she bought up Compaq Computer and that was stupid on its face at the time.--Brant At the time. But did it end up being a smart move in the long run?JNo. Personal computers had peaked and HP had its own strong brand name. The Compaq name is now gone. You can make a PC in your dorm room like Michael Dell did. A notebook couldn't be much harder. All HP needed to do was ramp up its production if demand was there.The biggie at HP was printers, another commodity business. Now here is dumb for you--really dumb: Sony buys Columbia (the talent departs, write off). Microsoft almost buys Yahoo and escapes by the hair of its chinny chin chin. Microsoft buys Nokia (write off). Microsoft doesn't buy Google. US oil companies borrow 1.2 trillion (the price of oil collapses). US companies (x-Apple) borrow money to pay dividends and buy back stock (IBM). Buffet buys IBM stock, stock price declines. British Petroleum saturates US media advertising how they were "Beyond Petroleum" (then disaster in the Gulf of Mexico).She should not be evaluated too much negatively for her CEO performance and I like a woman SOB for President--x-Hillary--for the same reason I like a woman who packs a gun or is up to it if necessary.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dldelancey Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Great news! President Forina traumatizes Federal bureaucracy. They hate her guts for the cuts!--Brantshe was a lousy CEO but apparently also a victim of sexism at HP (but I cannot document)If anyone can document sexism, or anything else that is similarly vicious, against Fiorina, please post it. I'm very open to giving her the benefit of the doubt. She was a first among women, and I can well imagine that there were men who didn't like it, and who might have done everything they could to stand in her way or sabotage her efforts, or to set her up to take the blame for their own failures. Please, anyone who has followed her career, pipe up.JI haven't followed her career, and this is not what you're looking for, I'm sure, but she did a short video poking fun of sexism in the workplace. This is the kind of subtle, often unconscious sexism that most women experience throughout their careers. Some laugh and move on, others are deeply damaged by it. She's laughing and moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Right on cue - my NPR e-mail from the weekend...After being surprised by online responses to her appearance in a recruiting ad, software engineer Isis Wenger wanted to see if anyone else felt like they didn't fit a "cookie-cutter mold." The response to her #ILookLikeAnEngineer campaign dwarfs those initial reactions.Clever move on her part...http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/04/429362127/sexist-reactions-to-an-ad-spark-ilooklikeanengineer-campaign?utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20150809&utm_campaign=mostemailed&utm_term=nprnewsA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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