Samson Corwell Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Ba'al, yes. "Rights"- otherwise know as "claims".Rights are obligations on others.This much has the concept of rights been twisted? Ba'al said it accurately.Ba'al, yes. "Rights"- otherwise know as "claims".Rights are obligations on others. Theoretical splits include negative/positive, claim/liberty, natural/legal, and individual/group (the WP article on this one is arguably shit).Rights are NOT the imposition of positive duties on others. Such imposition is better known as slavery.Ba'al ChatzafObligations on others to REFRAIN from acting (i.e., don't kill someone walking down the sidewalk, don't steal their stuff, etc). In effect this is what rights are. To violate them (i.e., robbery, murder, etc) is to commit an injustice. Rights are "claims", but you can also phrase such claims (the negative rights) as obligations on others to refrain from transgressing them. I was pointing to theoretical splits in the wider field of political science--an oxymoron if there ever was one. I made NO claim about the splits' validities. I thought Ba'al was saying that they were made up, so I called them "obligations" to stress their validity (of negative rights).Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, had I known that you two would take it that way I'd have kept my big trap shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Alright, but an "obligation" normally presupposes an imperative action - to NOT act sounds self-contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Corwell Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Alright, but an "obligation" normally presupposes an imperative action - to NOT act sounds self-contradictory.Semantic troubles is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, had I known that you two would take it that way I'd have kept my big trap shut.Tosh! The only way to clarify an issue is to discuss it. Don't worry about mistakes. We all make mistakes.Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anya Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 And now Obamacare.Folks:When your children, your significant other and yourself are forced to access life maintaining medicines and treatments from one source, and that source being the government, you are truly enslaved and it is basically over.This is why every totalitarian from Plato on up has made medical care the central piece of their tyranny.AdamPlato, at least, believed that some sort of rational moral order was possible, if people were properly instructed; today they just treat us like cattle and don't even pretend to be working on New Socialist Man. It's pretty grim either way, but it's always worse when any pretense of feeling and inspiration and progress is cast aside for grinding quietism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Plato, at least, believed that some sort of rational moral order was possible, if people were properly instructed; today they just treat us like cattle and don't even pretend to be working on New Socialist Man. It's pretty grim either way, but it's always worse when any pretense of feeling and inspiration and progress is cast aside for grinding quietism.Anya: Reasonably sure that Plato has a lot of company amongst philosophers. "Ratuional mortal order" define what you mean by that please.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anya Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Plato, at least, believed that some sort of rational moral order was possible, if people were properly instructed; today they just treat us like cattle and don't even pretend to be working on New Socialist Man. It's pretty grim either way, but it's always worse when any pretense of feeling and inspiration and progress is cast aside for grinding quietism.Anya: Reasonably sure that Plato has a lot of company amongst philosophers. "Ratuional mortal order" define what you mean by that please.A...Plato/'Socrates' apparently believed that it men were rational their would be no possible conflicts among their interests. Platonism makes knowledge, moral-political knowledge in particular, into the highest virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Plato/'Socrates' apparently believed that it men were rational their would be no possible conflicts among their interests. Platonism makes knowledge, moral-political knowledge in particular, into the highest virtue.Men are rational and they can also be irrational. Plato's evasion of reality made his philosophy the base of the all powerful centralized state.Which class of genê do you want to be?A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anya Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Plato/'Socrates' apparently believed that it men were rational their would be no possible conflicts among their interests. Platonism makes knowledge, moral-political knowledge in particular, into the highest virtue.Men are rational and they can also be irrational. Plato's evasion of reality made his philosophy the base of the all powerful centralized state.Which class of genê do you want to be?A...Well, I'm not endorsing Plato's political philosophy, just saying that the view that morality, reason and social harmony are deeply interrelated and dependent is a theme in Greek philosophy (and Jacobin, at that) which at least shows some respect for logic in principle, if not in development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Plato/'Socrates' apparently believed that it men were rational their would be no possible conflicts among their interests. Platonism makes knowledge, moral-political knowledge in particular, into the highest virtue.Men are rational and they can also be irrational. Plato's evasion of reality made his philosophy the base of the all powerful centralized state.Which class of genê do you want to be?A...Well, I'm not endorsing Plato's political philosophy, just saying that the view that morality, reason and social harmony are deeply interrelated and dependent is a theme in Greek philosophy (and Jacobin, at that) which at least shows some respect for logic in principle, if not in development.Anya:The Greeks had a precise deffinition of "politics" and what constituted the polis. Their are numerous philosophers that shared the view that "...morality, reason and social harmony are deely interrelated...," so, I am wondering as to why you seem to single out Plato?Out of curiostiy, what university did you attend?A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Corwell Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Plato/'Socrates' apparently believed that it men were rational their would be no possible conflicts among their interests. Platonism makes knowledge, moral-political knowledge in particular, into the highest virtue. Men are rational and they can also be irrational. Plato's evasion of reality made his philosophy the base of the all powerful centralized state.Which class of genê do you want to be?A...Well, I'm not endorsing Plato's political philosophy, just saying that the view that morality, reason and social harmony are deeply interrelated and dependent is a theme in Greek philosophy (and Jacobin, at that) which at least shows some respect for logic in principle, if not in development. Anya:The Greeks had a precise deffinition of "politics" and what constituted the polis. Their are numerous philosophers that shared the view that "...morality, reason and social harmony are deely interrelated...," so, I am wondering as to why you seem to single out Plato?Out of curiostiy, what university did you attend?A...Respect the beard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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