Making someone you love cry and be miserable, and time demands


Nerian

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My question is really two threads in one. But the crux of it is this:

When I make my girlfriend cry, should I feel bad and say sorry even if I think I've done nothing wrong?

and

Am I obligated to spend a fixed amount of time on my girlfriend to prove my love for her even if it means sacrificing my university study/career?

I feel like I need more time to study and I cannot because when I ask my girlfriend becomes miserable, cold, and cries and that makes me uncomfortable and feel like a horrible person. Is it OK for me to ask for time anyway? And how am I to respond to her crying? Do I console her and tell her that I'm sorry for hurting her or do I consider her emotions invalid and act as if I have done nothing wrong.

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This sounds like a terrible relationship that I would get out of if I were you. If you want to focus on your work, then stop dating people while you're at school. Get an fb if you must, and no I don't mean Facebook.

EDIT: I responded to this back when the post was longer, so I'm basing my thoughts off of that.

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You should only feel bad and apologize if you've actually done something wrong. Hopefully you are thoughtful and introspective in determining that. Never, ever, say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way." Your girlfriend's feelings are hers. You don't get to be sorry for her feelings for they don't belong to you. Instead, say something like "It hurts me to see you upset because you matter to me."

You are obligated to spend as much time (and energy) on/with your girlfriend as the two of you have agreed is necessary to maintain your relationship. It sounds as if you are not currently in agreement on that. It is not ok for you to "ask for time." She isn't your mother, she's your girlfriend. She isn't there to correct your behavior, and you do not need her permission to be who you are, which at the moment is a busy and dedicated college student. It is not ok for her to manipulate and guilt you by crying. She is, presumably, a grown woman, or at the very least, a grown-woman-in-training. You should expect her to act like one. If she needs more of your time, it is on her (not you) to say so. What is on you is to determine, based on your values and goals, if you can agree to her request. If you cannot, it's back on her to decide whether or not she still wants to be your girlfriend.

Look, if she's simply sad that the two of you don't have as much time together as you'd both like, then that's okay. You can work through that, and figure out ways to build time for each other into your schedules. Respond to her crying sympathetically and console her to the extent that you can, all the while knowing that she is responsible for her emotional well-being. On the other hand, if she's being manipulative and setting the expectation that you are responsbile for her emotional well-being, then you ought not give in to that.

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What you describe is classic altruistic blackmail. Get out now, whatever the short-term costs. Rearden married such a woman, and you know what happened to him.

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This sounds like a terrible relationship that I would get out of if I were you. If you want to focus on your work, then stop dating people while you're at school. Get an fb if you must, and no I don't mean Facebook.

EDIT: I responded to this back when the post was longer, so I'm basing my thoughts off of that.

Oh I'm sorry about that. I cut it short so that people would bother reading and answering to the main point. When I have time later I might expand on my current relationship. Thank you for your input and taking the time to read the longer version. It is invaluable to me.

Some women fancy themselves as sculptors making the men they want out of the raw material they find. Crying is the cutting tool they use to accomplish this.

This is what I have thought. Her crying appears to me to be a way to get out of anything and stop the discussion.

What you describe is classic altruistic blackmail. Get out now, whatever the short-term costs. Rearden married such a woman, and you know what happened to him.

It feels more and more like emotional bullying or blackmail as you describe it. I feel like my life is at the whim of her emotions. Emotions come first, then actual content.

You should only feel bad and apologize if you've actually done something wrong. Hopefully you are thoughtful and introspective in determining that. Never, ever, say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way." Your girlfriend's feelings are hers. You don't get to be sorry for her feelings for they don't belong to you. Instead, say something like "It hurts me to see you upset because you matter to me."

You are obligated to spend as much time (and energy) on/with your girlfriend as the two of you have agreed is necessary to maintain your relationship. It sounds as if you are not currently in agreement on that. It is not ok for you to "ask for time." She isn't your mother, she's your girlfriend. She isn't there to correct your behavior, and you do not need her permission to be who you are, which at the moment is a busy and dedicated college student. It is not ok for her to manipulate and guilt you by crying. She is, presumably, a grown woman, or at the very least, a grown-woman-in-training. You should expect her to act like one. If she needs more of your time, it is on her (not you) to say so. What is on you is to determine, based on your values and goals, if you can agree to her request. If you cannot, it's back on her to decide whether or not she still wants to be your girlfriend.

Look, if she's simply sad that the two of you don't have as much time together as you'd both like, then that's okay. You can work through that, and figure out ways to build time for each other into your schedules. Respond to her crying sympathetically and console her to the extent that you can, all the while knowing that she is responsible for her emotional well-being. On the other hand, if she's being manipulative and setting the expectation that you are responsbile for her emotional well-being, then you ought not give in to that.

You should only feel bad and apologize if you've actually done something wrong. Hopefully you are thoughtful and introspective in determining that. Never, ever, say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way." Your girlfriend's feelings are hers. You don't get to be sorry for her feelings for they don't belong to you. Instead, say something like "It hurts me to see you upset because you matter to me."

Wow. Thank you for that. I have felt like a crazy person. I told her something along these lines. Initially when we started dating I would not feel sorry and I would not apologize for 'making her feel sad' if I did not think I did anything wrong by her. She told me that that is very immature, and that you should be sorry for hurting someone you love even if you don't think you did anything wrong. I resisted for a while but eventually gave in to keep the peace. Now I'm always tip toeing around trying not to hurt her feelings. What you said makes the most sense! That is a good line, I will use it. It's true too. I don't like seeing her upset, but I'm not sorry for her feelings. I have in the past apologized sincerely when I actually think I've done something wrong. Before dating her, I thought I was a good person, now I have been suspecting I'm horrible. Her parents have said she should be with someone who doesn't make her cry. I am starting to think that's true.

She is however my childhood sweetie and so it will be incredibly hard to let go. She's also really hot. (which matters less and less to me but is still hard to give up) However, we don't have sex so it's not a loss of that level of intimacy. (No sex before marriage)

"She is, presumably, a grown woman, or at the very least, a grown-woman-in-training."

Yes, she's 25 with a full time career.

"If you cannot, it's back on her to decide whether or not she still wants to be your girlfriend."

I actually told her something like this once. I said I don't know how to change for her and I don't think I can or would want to. So it's up to her what she wants to do. And she was crazy upset that I was threatening to leave her and making her choose between being with me or not and that i mustn't want to be with her or love her if I could say that.

"Look, if she's simply sad that the two of you don't have as much time together as you'd both like, then that's okay."

Yes, I could work through that. She does let me have time off sometimes, but I have to grovel for it. But I cannot have permenant time off. I have to see her three times a week. I suggested once during the week and Saturday, but she was crying, etc. I tell her, ideally I'd see her if I had the time, but right now at this stage in my life I have to do my uni work, and I want to do well at it. She cannot accept that. She also made me say that I matter more than uni work. I felt uncomfortable saying that as my uni work is my productive work and what I'm doing for me. If I put her above that, then I'm putting her above my own life it seems.

"On the other hand, if she's being manipulative and setting the expectation that you are responsible for her emotional well-being, then you ought not give in to tha"

She has told me that her whole life has become about me now. This made me uncomfortable. She said that if we broke up she would likely not ever be happy and would probably not go to work and lose her job. She says that her family and me make her happy. That also made me uncomfortable. She should be making herself happy. She thinks a relationship is where you live for each other only, and that you just make each other happy. But as I have realized recently, you can't make someone happy, you have a relationship that is an enhancer to your life and happiness, not the root of it. That is dependency. And that is what this feels like. A dependency. And I have even let myself do that to some extent. And I hate it. I will have to turn things around, let her know kindly what it is I need, not back down on my own views, and see if she wants to stay. But the last time I did that we very nearly did break up because I would not back down on my principles, and she even said that when I start being "principled" things go wrong and she hates it lol. That shocked me a bit. I ended up at her place where she lives with her parents, and I felt too uncomfortable to continue the conversation with her parents there so I couldn't resolve it properly. In the end I get exhausted and just give in. That leaves me feeling defeated.

Naturally I'm scared of leaving her now. I feel like I'd be ruining her life, and I don't want to deal with her dropping to the floor and crying in public. I'd worry for her safety and not know what to do in that situation. The one time we have come close to breaking up, she literally cried all day. I don't want to make her do that. But I guess as you said I need to realize (as I once did) that's not my responsibility and not my fault.

Writing this out explicitly makes me realize how ridiculous this is. Wow. But she always makes me think I'm in the wrong and I'm just a bad person.

She's actually highly intelligent and good at arguing such that I don't know how to respond. Also, she goes into such long speeches I get exhausted and give up. One time I started crying on the phone as I asked her if I was allowed to leave because I felt so defeated and so sleepy and like she would not let me go to sleep lol.

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Wow. Thank you for that. I have felt like a crazy person. I told her something along these lines. Initially when we started dating I would not feel sorry and I would not apologize for 'making her feel sad' if I did not think I did anything wrong by her. She told me that that is very immature, and that you should be sorry for hurting someone you love even if you don't think you did anything wrong. I resisted for a while but eventually gave in to keep the peace. Now I'm always tip toeing around trying not to hurt her feelings. What you said makes the most sense! That is a good line, I will use it. It's true too. I don't like seeing her upset, but I'm not sorry for her feelings. I have in the past apologized sincerely when I actually think I've done something wrong. Before dating her, I thought I was a good person, now I have been suspecting I'm horrible. Her parents have said she should be with someone who doesn't make her cry. I am starting to think that's true.

She is however my childhood sweetie and so it will be incredibly hard to let go. She's also really hot. (which matters less and less to me but is still hard to give up) However, we don't have sex so it's not a loss of that level of intimacy. (No sex before marriage)

"She is, presumably, a grown woman, or at the very least, a grown-woman-in-training."

Yes, she's 25 with a full time career.

"If you cannot, it's back on her to decide whether or not she still wants to be your girlfriend."

I actually told her something like this once. I said I don't know how to change for her and I don't think I can or would want to. So it's up to her what she wants to do. And she was crazy upset that I was threatening to leave her and making her choose between being with me or not and that i mustn't want to be with her or love her if I could say that.

"Look, if she's simply sad that the two of you don't have as much time together as you'd both like, then that's okay."

Yes, I could work through that. She does let me have time off sometimes, but I have to grovel for it. But I cannot have permenant time off. I have to see her three times a week. I suggested once during the week and Saturday, but she was crying, etc. I tell her, ideally I'd see her if I had the time, but right now at this stage in my life I have to do my uni work, and I want to do well at it. She cannot accept that. She also made me say that I matter more than uni work. I felt uncomfortable saying that as my uni work is my productive work and what I'm doing for me. If I put her above that, then I'm putting her above my own life it seems.

"On the other hand, if she's being manipulative and setting the expectation that you are responsible for her emotional well-being, then you ought not give in to tha"

She has told me that her whole life has become about me now. This made me uncomfortable. She said that if we broke up she would likely not ever be happy and would probably not go to work and lose her job. She says that her family and me make her happy. That also made me uncomfortable. She should be making herself happy. She thinks a relationship is where you live for each other only, and that you just make each other happy. But as I have realized recently, you can't make someone happy, you have a relationship that is an enhancer to your life and happiness, not the root of it. That is dependency. And that is what this feels like. A dependency. And I have even let myself do that to some extent. And I hate it. I will have to turn things around, let her know kindly what it is I need, not back down on my own views, and see if she wants to stay. But the last time I did that we very nearly did break up because I would not back down on my principles, and she even said that when I start being "principled" things go wrong and she hates it lol. That shocked me a bit. I ended up at her place where she lives with her parents, and I felt too uncomfortable to continue the conversation with her parents there so I couldn't resolve it properly. In the end I get exhausted and just give in. That leaves me feeling defeated.

Naturally I'm scared of leaving her now. I feel like I'd be ruining her life, and I don't want to deal with her dropping to the floor and crying in public. I'd worry for her safety and not know what to do in that situation. The one time we have come close to breaking up, she literally cried all day. I don't want to make her do that. But I guess as you said I need to realize (as I once did) that's not my responsibility and not my fault.

Writing this out explicitly makes me realize how ridiculous this is. Wow. But she always makes me think I'm in the wrong and I'm just a bad person.

She's actually highly intelligent and good at arguing such that I don't know how to respond. Also, she goes into such long speeches I get exhausted and give up. One time I started crying on the phone as I asked her if I was allowed to leave because I felt so defeated and so sleepy and like she would not let me go to sleep lol.

You sound exactly like most of the women I've known who were in abusive relationships.

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You sound exactly like most of the women I've known who were in abusive relationships.

Really? I don't know if it's abusive. I was talking to a long time friend about some stuff and he eventually said, "get out now."

Damn

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I suggested we go to a psychologist together. She was distraught. Eventually she said it was a good idea if I went. I went to one and they thought I seemed like a pretty healthy minded person and didn't think I needed to come back. They even sympathized with the difficulty I have not having sex. haha. And all I have felt in the past is like a bad boyfriend for wanting it. I've started to hate my sexuality. She told me she has to do it with me now because if not I'll leave her. I tell her she can do whatever she likes I'm not forcing her. And now I don't even want to because it grosses me out to think she'd be sacrificing to do it with me. Eeeesh. Gross.

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This is a destructive relationship for you both. Save yourself. It is not your responsibility to save her, and you couldn't anyway even if you tried. If you feel moved to do so, reach out to her family and friends and let them know that she is in need of their support.

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Dooooddddd...think of the future. That future when she really has her claws into you. You think it is bad now? It is only going to get worse. Run while you still can and thank Galt you don't have children with her.

A young man needs a lady in public and a whore in bed. Hopefully the same woman!

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Peter: "No sex before marriage"? You mean, no sex? Whoa! I know this is personal, but don't you think it is very relevant?

No need to reply, of course it's private.

(Not that I have to bring Rand in though it's something she mentioned, about the "hypocrisy" of Platonic love.)

One stab at cheap psychology I can make, is perhaps the lady feels she has no other hold on you except guilt.

There is always guilt swirling around in a dependent 'relationship' (gawd I dislike that word, "dating" also), and it is paramount to sort out the unearned guilt from the earned. Next time round you will come in knowing the boundaries better.

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Peter: "No sex before marriage"? You mean, no sex? Whoa! I know this is personal, but don't you think it is very relevant?

No need to reply, of course it's private.

(Not that I have to bring Rand in though it's something she mentioned, about the "hypocrisy" of Platonic love.)

One stab at cheap psychology I can make, is perhaps the lady feels she has no other hold on you except guilt.

There is always guilt swirling around in a dependent 'relationship' (gawd I dislike that word, "dating" also), and it is paramount to sort out the unearned guilt from the earned. Next time round you will come in knowing the boundaries better.

Very relevant. It might be at the root of a lot of our problems. Actually, I think she's much more mystical minded than I originally thought, and that that is the reason for many of the tensions between us. I thought she was mostly rational with a few side beliefs that were mystical. But it seems mystical beliefs infect your whole life. Anyway, if she 'gives in', then that is very lame sex. She tells me often that she does want it very much. She told me that she has cried because she can't do it. I can't do it with her now anyway, because it will lock me into staying with her forever. She would probably only do it on the promise that I will never leave her. Since I can't lie, I can't say that. She needs me to constantly tell her I'll never leave her and that we will always be together. More and more, I'm wondering if I am being honest about that, or if I can ever know such a thing.

She told me the other day that she deliberately makes herself see me as better than I really am in her mind for my sake. She doesn't realize it, but that statement was excruciating.

She does this with many things, she forces herself to see things the way she wants to. She lies to herself. Her capacity for self delusion is impressive.

Nerian: (You don't have to answer this.) Are we giving the answers you expected?

More or less.

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Peter,

I think you and your girlfriend actually love each other a lot, but things are going to have to change if this going to work.

Sometimes a power struggle ensues early in a relationship. That is an unfortunate fact. Your girlfriend has certain unrealistic expectations and is trying to guilt you into living up to them.

A lot of women are hopelessly romantic. They want you to say that they're the most important thing in the world and that you'd give up anything for them, etc. They want to hear you say that you love them from here to eternity. It doesn't hurt to say some of those things, but if she starts using such proclamations as an excuse to manipulate you, you need to put an end to it --- to the manipulation that is.

If she is saying things like: "Do you love me?" " Do you love me enough to give up your college education?" "If you loved me you would spend more time with me?" Turn it around on her.

Ask her: "Do you love me?" "Are you willing to give up something for me?" "Are you willing to wait for me?" If she really does love you, she will wait for you to have more time for her.

If you love her, reassure her that you do love her and will be faithful to her if she is willing to wait for you and sacrifice for you. (Here I'm not using "sacrifice" in the Objectivist sense of a net sacrifice, but in the sense of giving up immediate gratification for future fulfillment).

College is hard on relationships, there is no doubt about it. Ultimately, three days a week is inadequate for most women. They will want to see you every day. Unfortunately, if she wants attention and you need to study, it probably won't work to be together that often until after you graduate.

With the exception of a few women on here, I have met very few rational women. Women tend to be very emotional. Laying things out in nice straight, well delineated arguments doesn't work. Your girlfriend is insecure and needs to be reassured often about how much you care for her. At the same time, you need to take charge of your time. She may get upset and cry sometimes when she can't have her way, but you have to let her know the reasons that you can't be with her and then do what you need to do.

Don't ask her if you think the two of you should end the relationship. That is just going to make her more emotional and insecure. Make a firm decision to continue the relationship, if that's what you want, and then continue it on terms that are acceptable to you.

Don't let her wear you out. Keep going until you wear her out. Try to be sweet, but if she won't back down, be blunt about her character flaws. If she won't let you hang up the phone and you're busy, hang up on her and if she keeps bothering you, tell her you're going to turn off the phone and then do it. She'll probably go ballistic, but she'll get over it.

If nothing works, then you'll have to be prepared to actually end it. Some relationships can be saved from self destructing, but some can't.

This is why I advised my sons not to date in college.

Good luck.

Darrell

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Love seems to me to be evolution's way of making men do really dumb things for the survival of their genes. Women are like parasites, their venom is their looks, charm and promise of sex. They latch onto a man's brain and inject their venom rendering him a powerless slave to his 'love. They proceed to drain his life force until he is a shell. Love seems to me to be not winnable for a man. It seems so irrational. I have often wished I was asexual. If there were a pill or a treatment that could entirely rid me of my attraction to women, I have often thought I'd take it.

I feel there are some double standards, but I don't think she has a rational enough mind to process them. I have always in the wrong no matter what.

She says it bothers her when I can't see her because I waste time and then I can't see her. I guess that is valid.

She said to me that she deliberately makes herself see me as better than she knows I really am. She doesn't realize that is most profoundly not good to me. She genuinely thought that was a nice thing to say to me.

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Love seems to me to be evolution's way of making men do really dumb things for the survival of their genes. Women are like parasites, their venom is their looks, charm and promise of sex. They latch onto

Ah, Peter: Me, I'm still learning, initially about women, and about men and women.

There's an epistemological error in this you said. Hold in mind: mankind->gender->the individual. You are conflating the one with the all, and all with the one, it appears. Do you not think that women in general face a not dissimilar problem with men, with any one man? Some men, I've seen, are as much inclined to underhand manipulation as women.

But what went once before, does not have to be again. A is A.

There is some truth in we men being slaves to nature/evolution and to our own physical and emotional nature. Attraction becomes desire becomes attachment - and progeny, viewed skeptically. But as a thinking Objectivist, you know the answer is to 'obey' nature until you understand it well enough to command it, to confront it on your own terms.

You are likely better equipped now, with better self-knowledge and a suss of the mechanism of guilt. I suggest you take that away with you, if you choose to move on. Let go of your bitterness, it is only you and your self-esteem that it affects. Don't forget it's not the entire race of women that you need to understand, love and be loved by - one or two in a life will do very nicely, but you should be extremely discerning and not evade detecting early warning signs from a girl. I advise looking out for honesty and character before conventionally-beautiful looks. A good-looker in your eyes, obviously; but you'll find it's the sexiest women who have character. Do you really care much how "hot" she is seen through other people's eyes? Also, have no fear of being alone for a while, in fact grab it eagerly.

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Do you really care much how "hot" she is seen through other people's eyes?

Not one bit. It's my mistake if I led you to believe I cared about how hot my girlfriend would be to other people. I care how hot she is to me. My current girlfriend is too skinny for a lot of men, but to me she is a perfect size, and utterly gorgeous. It makes no difference to me if the entire world said she wasn't.

On the other hand, a woman could have all the greatest characteristics and personality in the world, it won't make me attracted her physically.

My statement on women being parasites was harsh, and I retract it. I don't consider women to be parasites. I don't mean to suggest they are doing anything deliberately. They can't help that men respond. It was a flippant analogy for how I feel. Men and women seem to be at war with one another unable to find a mutual win-win. Men want fun, freedom, sex and life. Women don't seem to want any of that. Most relationships seem miserable to me. Two people become dependent on one another. Each person can't pursue their values. They become tied together in mutual self destruction.

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Do you really care much how "hot" she is seen through other people's eyes?

Not one bit. It's my mistake if I led you to believe I cared about how hot my girlfriend would be to other people. I care how hot she is to me. My current girlfriend is too skinny for a lot of men, but to me she is a perfect size, and utterly gorgeous. It makes no difference to me if the entire world said she wasn't.

On the other hand, a woman could have all the greatest characteristics and personality in the world, it won't make me attracted her physically.

My statement on women being parasites was harsh, and I retract it. I don't consider women to be parasites. I don't mean to suggest they are doing anything deliberately. They can't help that men respond. It was a flippant analogy for how I feel. Men and women seem to be at war with one another unable to find a mutual win-win. Men want fun, freedom, sex and life. Women don't seem to want any of that. Most relationships seem miserable to me. Two people become dependent on one another. Each person can't pursue their values. They become tied together in mutual self destruction.

Good thing because I was about to tear into you. Rand calls what you were doing there the sanction of the victim. And generalizations are the worst kind of laziness. Stop bitching about this relationship, and either go be alone or find a new one. If she were here whining about you I'd tell her the same thing.

Darrell gave you some really good advice except he made some silly generalizations, too. There's a world of rational women out there. There's at least as many rational women as there are rational men. Thing is, you actually have to look for them.

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Good thing because I was about to tear into you. Rand calls what you were doing there the sanction of the victim. And generalizations are the worst kind of laziness. Stop bitching about this relationship, and either go be alone or find a new one. If she were here whining about you I'd tell her the same thing.

Darrell gave you some really good advice except he made some silly generalizations, too. There's a world of rational women out there. There's at least as many rational women as there are rational men. Thing is, you actually have to look for them.

Correct across the entire post.

Folks here need to understandi that the following statements were true prior to my being aware of D/s some fifteen (15) years ago. However, that knowledge only confirmed what I have known all my life.

Why do you have this double standard as to what human's sexual needs are?

I met wonderful women while I was in school and had differing relationships, some of them sexual.

Ms. D is completely correct as to the fallacy of men are more rational than women. or, less sexual than men.

I have some questions for you.

Do either of you come from divorced, or, religious families?

How did you meet?

Why are you willing to sacrifice your personal integrity forr anyone?

A...

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I have some questions for you.

Do either of you come from divorced, or, religious families?

How did you meet?

Why are you willing to sacrifice your personal integrity forr anyone?

A...

She comes from a religious family but they don't go to Church. Her family is close knit, it means the world to her. She lives for her family, practically.

I was in foster care. My parents are split up after she and I ran away from her husband.

We met when we were 8 and 9 at primary school. We had some childhood puppy love back then. I had to move away from that school because I was in foster care and often had to move.

I don't know I guess my new found view changes have caused me to reconsider the dynamics of this relationship.

My intention was to question the obligations of a relationship. I'm sorry it turned into me whining.

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I have some questions for you.

Do either of you come from divorced, or, religious families?

How did you meet?

Why are you willing to sacrifice your personal integrity forr anyone?

A...

She comes from a religious family but they don't go to Church. Her family is close knit, it means the world to her. She lives for her family, practically.

I was in foster care. My parents are split up after she and I ran away from her husband.

We met when we were 8 and 9 at primary school. We had some childhood puppy love back then. I had to move away from that school because I was in foster care and often had to move.

I don't know I guess my new found view changes have caused me to reconsider the dynamics of this relationship.

My intention was to question the obligations of a relationship. I'm sorry it turned into me whining.

First of all, I did use whining. Second, I was pretty sure you had that foster care background, I just wanted to confirm that.

I am not surprised she is from a religious tight knit family.

In terms of what I perceived as your double standard on men and women and sexual drives, have you considered what I posted?

A...

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I have some questions for you.

Do either of you come from divorced, or, religious families?

How did you meet?

Why are you willing to sacrifice your personal integrity forr anyone?

A...

She comes from a religious family but they don't go to Church. Her family is close knit, it means the world to her. She lives for her family, practically.

I was in foster care. My parents are split up after she and I ran away from her husband.

We met when we were 8 and 9 at primary school. We had some childhood puppy love back then. I had to move away from that school because I was in foster care and often had to move.

I don't know I guess my new found view changes have caused me to reconsider the dynamics of this relationship.

My intention was to question the obligations of a relationship. I'm sorry it turned into me whining.

First of all, I did use whining. Second, I was pretty sure you had that foster care background, I just wanted to confirm that.

I am not surprised she is from a religious tight knit family.

In terms of what I perceived as your double standard on men and women and sexual drives, have you considered what I posted?

A...

Sorry, I was responding to another poster about the whining. I should have used a quote to make that clear.

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Sorry, I was responding to another poster about the whining. I should have used a quote to make that clear.

First of all, I did use whining. Second, I was pretty sure you had that foster care background, I just wanted to confirm that.

I am not surprised she is from a religious tight knit family.

In terms of what I perceived as your double standard on men and women and sexual drives, have you considered what I posted?

A...

No biggie...

What about the rest of the post?

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Nerian,

I only called whining because you don't seem like a whiner. In your other posts and in your early posts to this thread, you have never struck me as that. I called it out because you seemed to not be yourself, and I thought you'd benefit from a bit of tough love. I meant it in the nicest way.

It's obvious you love this girl, but you're bad for each other right now. You're as bad for her as she is for you. She needs to figure out who she is without you, if you'll forgive the cliché.

Deanna

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