God and Unconditional Love

[caroljane]

I love the Habs unconditionally and am severely bigoted against the NY Rangers, despite my tender mercy towards Adam.

Not sure about the Dallas Cowboys. Don't approve of American football.

- God

[caroljane]

My lifestyle? I haven't had sex with anyone in over a decade and you don't know if it was with a guy or a gal.

Nor do I care, Brant... I'm only noting that we each have two different standards of behavior and this world will always be that way.

Greg

My standard is deeper than your standard.

--Brant

Yes, it is.

Moralist's prediction is wrong. The world will always have as many standards of behaviour as there are individuals

Celibacy is cool!.

[moralist]

This leaves open the question of evaluating the nature of reality respecting human actions.

Yes. That is what morality is.

This moves you generally from 100% right to less than 100% right, the latter is you being fallible just like everybody else.

Of course, Brant.

As totally subjective beings, we can only have subjective opinions as to what is right or wrong... and our subjective opinions will either agree or disagree with objective reality. But only the objective reality of the just and deserved consequences of our actions is the final judge... and not us. A good way to see what is right or wrong is to observe the rational logical connection of behavior to the nature of the consequences it manifests in reality..

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Celibacy is cool!.

Carol,

That is probably the most bigoted statement ever uttered on OL.

(just joking...)

Michael

[moralist]

The world will always have as many standards of behavour as there are individuals.

Of course... because we are subjective beings.

And of those many subjective standards of behavior... only one agrees with objective reality... and all the rest disagree with objective reality.

Greg

[caroljane]

Celibacy is cool!.

Carol,

That is probably the most bigoted statement ever uttered on OL.

(just joking...)

Michael

Celibacy ... it's the new promiscuity.

Sister Carol, O.M.

[Brant Gaede]

This leaves open the question of evaluating the nature of reality respecting human actions.

Yes. That is what morality is.

This moves you generally from 100% right to less than 100% right, the latter is you being fallible just like everybody else.

Of course, Brant.

As totally subjective beings, we can only have subjective opinions as to what is right or wrong... and our subjective opinions will either agree or disagree with objective reality. But only the objective reality of the just and deserved consequences of our actions is the final judge... and not us. A good way to see what is right or wrong is to observe the rational logical connection of behavior to the nature of the consequences it manifests in reality..

Greg

I've got a problem with "totally subjective beings" as you, for one, keep trying to make totally objective--truthful--statements. How does the totally subjective totally embrace the idea of (objective) truth if the truth were not available to him one way or the other as through reason and/or bumping into things? There is absolutely nothing subjective at all about the axiomatic underpinings of Objectivism and science--the search for truth--but knowing that means it's in your head.

--Brant

[moralist]

I've got a problem with "totally subjective beings" as you, for one, keep trying to make totally objective--truthful--statements.

It's not a matter of trying, Brant. My subjective comments about the causal link between behavior and consequences either agree with objective reality or they don't. There is nothing to prevent you from expressing your own subjective opinion that they don't.

The world is full of people with different views so I don't "have a problem" with totally subjective beings simply because I'm one, too.

How does the totally subjective totally embrace the idea of (objective) truth if the truth were not available to him one way or the other as through reason and/or bumping into things?

The effect of objective truth is made available to us through our personal experience of the consequences of our own behavior, as well as observing the rational logical connection between the behavior of others and the consequences they set into motion.

In my subjective opinion there is also another faculty available to us should we choose to become aware of it...

Conscience.

...the silent inner knowing of what's morally right and wrong that is neither thought nor emotion.

There is absolutely nothing subjective at all about the axiomatic underpinnings of Objectivism and science--the search for truth--

Yes.

And we are totally free to either subjectively agree or to subjectively disagree with objective reality... but we cannot be that objective reality.

but knowing that means it's in your head.

Knowing is more than that... it's the ability to observe what's in your head.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Now, Greg, we are absolutely part of "objective reality"--just like all the other critters of the land and the sea.

You are taking conceptual consciousness and free will and using it to try to hose down all of us objectively true human beings deglorifying one of three things that make people unique, the others being the ability to speak and the human foot.

--Brant

I know: sometimes I'm a dog

[moralist]

Now, Greg, we are absolutely part of "objective reality"--just like all the other critters of the land and the sea.

Yes. But we ourselves are not objective beings. We are subjective beings who are only capable of either agreeing or disagreeing with objective reality, and are totally powerless to alter how the causality of objective reality operates. We can only choose either to act in harmony with it, or to stubbornly act contrary to it and get the steamrolling we deserve.

Objective reality inexorably acts upon us. We are wholly subject to it, bound by the causality of our behavior.

You are taking conceptual consciousness and free will and using it to try to hose down all of us objectively true human beings

There's no need to try to play the helpless victim, Brant. Truth is, no one on the face of this Earth has the power to prevent you being true to reality by your own actions.

deglorifying one of three things that make people unique,

Which is?

It's better if you can actually put exactly what you mean into words just so that there's no misunderstandings when I respond to it.

I know: sometimes I'm a dog.

Humans can choose to behave like dogs...

...while dogs have no choice but to be dogs.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Now, Greg, we are absolutely part of "objective reality"--just like all the other critters of the land and the sea.

Yes. But we ourselves are not objective beings. We are subjective beings who are only capable of either agreeing or disagreeing with objective reality, and are totally powerless to alter how the causality of objective reality operates. We can only choose either to act in harmony with it, or to stubbornly act contrary to it and get the steamrolling we deserve.

Objective reality inexorably acts upon us. We are wholly subject to it, bound by the causality of our behavior.

You are taking conceptual consciousness and free will and using it to try to hose down all of us objectively true human beings

There's no need to try to play the helpless victim, Brant. Truth is, no one on the face of this Earth has the power to prevent you being true to reality by your own actions.

deglorifying one of three things that make people unique,

Which is?

It's better if you can actually put exactly what you mean into words just so that there's no misunderstandings when I respond to it.

I know: sometimes I'm a dog.

Humans can choose to behave like dogs...

...while dogs have no choice but to be dogs.

Greg

The last statement of mine is a wry comment on the human condition.

If you had read what I wrote more carefully you'd know that "conceptual consciousness" is the first of three uniques.

--Brant

[moralist]

Now, Greg, we are absolutely part of "objective reality"--just like all the other critters of the land and the sea.

Yes. But we ourselves are not objective beings. We are subjective beings who are only capable of either agreeing or disagreeing with objective reality, and are totally powerless to alter how the causality of objective reality operates. We can only choose either to act in harmony with it, or to stubbornly act contrary to it and get the steamrolling we deserve.

Objective reality inexorably acts upon us. We are wholly subject to it, bound by the causality of our behavior.

You are taking conceptual consciousness and free will and using it to try to hose down all of us objectively true human beings

There's no need to try to play the helpless victim, Brant. Truth is, no one on the face of this Earth has the power to prevent you being true to reality by your own actions.

deglorifying one of three things that make people unique,

Which is?

It's better if you can actually put exactly what you mean into words just so that there's no misunderstandings when I respond to it.

I know: sometimes I'm a dog.

Humans can choose to behave like dogs...

...while dogs have no choice but to be dogs.

Greg

If you had read what I wrote more carefully you'd know that "conceptual consciousness" is the first of three uniques.

Ok. Our subjective conceptual consciousness can either agree or disagree with objective reality, and it is how our lives unfold that reflects how harmoniously our actions flow with objective reality. In a broader view... subjective beings acting in conflict with objective reality are responsible for bringing ugliness into this world.

Greg

[tmj]

In #59 Greg said

Sodomy includes a wide range of unsanitary sexual perversions... of which the just and deserved consequences include an "all you can eat buffet" of sexually transmitted diseases including aids.. Bon appetite.

And I'm vulgar? My comment was in response to this attitude . Admittedly it was in poor taste, but I honestly thought the sarcastic nature of the phrasing would be obvious.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Tad,

You left out the question about oral sex and fecal matter.

It doesn't matter. The whole discussion was vulgar with some ugly subtexts.

You're a good kid and the dust is settling.

My advice, just let it go.

There are really good things to talk about--life-affirming things that enrich one's mind. Important things that need pondering and action. Banter among friends.

This topic is not one of them. Please use that precious mind of yours for something else here on OL.

Michael

[tmj]

MSK

I agree , I apologize for the way my reaction to the ugly subtexts was interpreted, and am definately lettng the dust settle.

A positive note , if pop culture is any real barometer of general culture congratulations Mitch and Cam !