A discussion of "The System of Liberty"


Recommended Posts

http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1685&Itemid=366

This is my lead essay for the "Online Library of Liberty" discussion of my recent book, "The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" (Cambridge, 2013). Commentaries by Ralph Raico, David Gordon, and Jason Brennan will be posted soon, along with my reply to them.

Ghs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was really happy with George's book, but I hope David Gordon finds something about it to rip to shreds in his inimitably devastating way. I just want to watch the fireworks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was really happy with George's book, but I hope David Gordon finds something about it to rip to shreds in his inimitably devastating way. I just want to watch the fireworks.

I've read David's commentary (it will be posted soon), and it is actually very complimentary. I recall that David mentions his reputation as a tough reviewer and suggests that it is undeserved. 8-)

Ghs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

A number of comments have been posted since my original notice, including my replies to Jason Brennan, David Gordon, and Ralph Raico. The latest is my second reply to historian Ralph Raico about the influence of Christianity on the growth of freedom in the West. Scroll up from this post to read everything else.

<http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1685&Itemid=366#conversation3>

Ghs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The latest is my second reply to historian Ralph Raico about the influence of Christianity on the growth of freedom in the West.

I really liked your reply. A point I might have worked in is that "the church" was a state, in that the Papal States were Central Italy, while Southern and Northern Italy had political affiliations that varied over the centuries, and often there were conflicts with it's neighbors where weapons like excommunication and interdict played their role.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The latest is my second reply to historian Ralph Raico about the influence of Christianity on the growth of freedom in the West.

I really liked your reply. A point I might have worked in is that "the church" was a state, in that the Papal States were Central Italy, while Southern and Northern Italy had political affiliations that varied over the centuries, and often there were conflicts with it's neighbors where weapons like excommunication and interdict played their role.

Thanks, but I'm puzzled by your recommendation. The last part of my comment, which included a quotation by R.W. Southern, dealt with the church qua state.

Ghs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, but I'm puzzled by your recommendation. The last part of my comment, which included a quotation by R.W. Southern, dealt with the church qua state.

I was knocking back a Murphy's while reading Raico's comment, mentally rehearsing how I'd reply. Your reply is concise, spot on, perfect. I was thinking how I'd have expanded on it, and was feeling chatty. Some reference to (for example) the war between Friederich II and the Pope seemed in order, but would have raised more issues than needed addressing.

That Murphy's, with the nitrogen widget in the can, mmm, good stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, but I'm puzzled by your recommendation. The last part of my comment, which included a quotation by R.W. Southern, dealt with the church qua state.

I was knocking back a <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy" s_irish_stout"="">Murphy's while reading Raico's comment, mentally rehearsing how I'd reply. Your reply is concise, spot on, perfect. I was thinking how I'd have expanded on it, and was feeling chatty. Some reference to (for example) the war between Friederich II and the Pope seemed in order, but would have raised more issues than needed addressing.

That Murphy's, with the nitrogen widget in the can, mmm, good stuff.

You call that a link!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_Irish_Stout

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just reading the latest, and GHS is displaying the perennial sharpness of his claws, all of course in the service of his "agenda of not crediting the Catholic Church". I'm afraid it's Raico who has an agenda (meaning, who's being stubborn). His complaint that George doesn't provide evidence of atrocities involving religious hatred called to mind a line I recently came across:

"Guatemala by then had fallen under the control of a mass murderer and particular buddy of Reagan named Rios Montt, who as usual wiped off his bloody hands on the baby Jesus like so many of these charmers do."

Thomas Pynchon, Bleeding Edge, Chapter 15 p. 170

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1685&Itemid=366#conversation13

My final reply to Ralph Raico (about the influence of the Catholic Church on freedom in the West) is now on the OLL site. Scroll up to see Ralph’s last comment.

Ghs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the only part of the discussion I have read, but reading it makes me think I do not need to read the previous, it is masterly. How the threads of history and thought interweave. The great 12th century statist Henry II who ignored the church as best he could, to impose laws that led eventually to the Magna Carta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"...and that's all I have to say." That's the intellectual equivalent of a driveby shooting.

I think Ralph is more comminted to his ideology than to difficult facts. I also consider it an implicit acknowledgement that he cannot deal with George's counter-punches which he knows will be coming. I don't get it. I would never get into an arm-wrestling competition with George over the history of American and English political philosophy, for instance. I'd want to learn from the master. What typically happens is I put up what I think is a correct proposition and George corrects me with facts upon facts. That's all I wanted--the facts. Poor George. He has to read hundreds if not thousands of books to deal with the likes of me and all I have to do is read George. (I'm exaggerating by 37%.)

--Brant

master of the master

in fairness to Ralph, he's stated his position and as a courtesy gives George the last word knowing(?) enough is enough for the reader to decide and chose--that it's not a case of winning an argument but of getting the facts up and out (sort of like a male orgasm)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now