Egypt Speaks III - Protester Bloodbath


Michael Stuart Kelly

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Egypt Speaks III - Protester Bloodbath
 
The following story has an incredible long sequence of photos and videos of the Egyptian military clearing the protests by the Muslim Brotherhood.
 
British cameraman shot dead while reporting for Sky on Egypt bloodbath as protesters say as many as 149 have been killed
By JILL REILLY and STEVE NOLAN
14 August 2013
Daily Mail

 

The mainstream media is focusing on how brutal the military is. For example, look at how the story starts. (This section was published before the story was updated. It still reads that way.) From the article:

 

A British cameraman is among at least 100 killed as an operation to clear two camps filled with thousands of protestors loyal to ousted Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi descended into violent chaos.
 
Mick Deane was part of a Sky News team in Egypt reporting on a security force operation to raid the camps in the capital Cairo when violence broke out.
 
Security forces are said to have opened fire on mostly unarmed protestors with machine guns in the operation which began shortly after 7am local time.
 
Although the total number of dead in the clashes is unconfirmed, burned corpses have been seen on the streets which resemble a war zone.

 

But the photos also tell a story. Here are a few:

 

Military avoiding rocks:

Protection: Riot police and army soldiers protect themselves with riot shields as members of the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of ousted Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi throw stones during clashes around the area of Rabaa Adawiya square

 

Protesters push military vehicle off bridge with people still in it.

A police vehicle topples from a bridge during trouble in the Egyptian capital earlier today

 

More rocks:

Missiles: Members of the Muslim Brotherhood throw stones at riot police during clashes around Cairo University and Nahdet Misr Square

 

Molotov cocktail components:

Clearing out: Members of the Egyptian security forces point to a box of glass bottles believed to be prepared for Molotov cocktails

 

There's also a helicopter video of gunmen firing at the military:

 

 

Here's how the military also tried to do it:

Operation:

 

So it's not just a story of the mean old military victimizing poor unarmed protesters by shooting them without provocation. It looks to me like the military was willing to carry protesters off.

 

I hope the people singing the praises of the Arab Spring and supporting the rights of the Muslim Brotherhood to participate in the "democratization process" are enjoying the show. It's going to get a hell of a lot worse.

 

And if the Muslim Brotherhood returns to power within this context, you haven't begun to see a bloodbath--with a massive secret police force and the whole shebang.

 

Michael

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Michael wrote:

And if the Muslim Brotherhood returns to power within this context, you haven't begun to see a bloodbath--with a massive secret police force and the whole shebang.

end quote

Since the Muslim Brotherhood was freely elected does it have a right to impose Sharia Law? No. It imposed a theocratic dictatorship so the Egyptian army was justified in deposing Morsi. We should support the Army as a stabilizing influence until another election can be held. Which leads to the next question. Should a political party, like the Muslim Brotherhood that intends to create a dictatorship, be allowed to compete in the next election? No. And Objectivists agree.

Peter

Notes

From Wikipedia:

Sharia is the moral code and religious law of Islam. Sharia deals with many topics addressed by secular law, including crime, politics, and economics, as well as personal matters such as sexual intercourse, hygiene, diet, prayer, and fasting. Though interpretations of sharia vary between cultures, in its strictest definition it is considered the infallible law of God—as opposed to the human interpretation of the laws (fiqh).

end quote

“Collectivized ‘Rights,’” The Virtue of Selfishness, 103:

A nation that violates the rights of its own citizens cannot claim any rights whatsoever. In the issue of rights, as in all moral issues, there can be no double standard. A nation ruled by brute physical force is not a nation, but a horde—whether it is led by Attila, Genghis Khan, Hitler, Khrushchev or Castro. What rights could Attila claim and on what grounds?

end quote

“From a Symposium,” Return of the Primitive: The Anti-Industrial Revolution, 173:

Tyranny is any political system (whether absolute monarchy or fascism or communism) that does not recognize individual rights (which necessarily include property rights). The overthrow of a political system by force is justified only when it is directed against tyranny: it is an act of self-defense against those who rule by force. For example, the American Revolution.

end quote

“The Metaphysical Versus the Man-Made,” Philosophy: Who Needs It, 24, “The Fallacy of The Package-Dealing”:

“Package-dealing” is the fallacy of failing to discriminate crucial differences. It consists of treating together, as parts of a single conceptual whole or “package,” elements which differ essentially in nature, truth-status, importance or value.

end quote

From “The Objectivist Ethics,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 34, Social Theory of Ethics:

The social theory of ethics substitutes “society” for God—and although it claims that its chief concern is life on earth, it is not the life of man, not the life of an individual, but the life of a disembodied entity, the collective, which, in relation to every individual, consists of everybody except himself. As far as the individual is concerned, his ethical duty is to be the selfless, voiceless, rightless slave of any need, claim or demand asserted by others. The motto “dog eat dog”—which is not applicable to capitalism nor to dogs—is applicable to the social theory of ethics. The existential monuments to this theory are Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

end quote

Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, 135:

It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own. He uses force to seize a value; I use it only to destroy destruction.

end quote

“Collectivized ‘Rights,’” The Virtue of Selfishness, 103, National Rights:

A nation, like any other group, is only a number of individuals and can have no rights other than the rights of its individual citizens. A free nation—a nation that recognizes, respects and protects the individual rights of its citizens—has a right to its territorial integrity, its social system and its form of government. The government of such a nation is not the ruler, but the servant or agent of its citizens and has no rights other than the rights delegated to it by the citizens for a specific, delimited task (the task of protecting them from physical force, derived from their right of self-defense) . . . . Such a nation has a right to its sovereignty (derived from the rights of its citizens) and a right to demand that its sovereignty be respected by all other nations.

end quote

“Collectivized ‘Rights,’” The Virtue of Selfishness, 104:

Dictatorship nations are outlaws. Any free nation had the right to invade Nazi Germany and, today, has the right to invade Soviet Russia, Cuba or any other slave pen. Whether a free nation chooses to do so or not is a matter of its own self-interest, not of respect for the nonexistent “rights” of gang rulers. It is not a free nation’s duty to liberate other nations at the price of self-sacrifice, but a free nation has the right to do it, when and if it so chooses.

end quote

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We can only hope that all this blood will somehow, sometime water the Tree of Liberty.

Not a chance Carol, sad to say.

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WhYNOT wrote, “Apt quotations. 'Good losers' (and good winners) is the only base Democracy, without individual rights fixed by a solid Constitution, rests upon. Here's the proof, as if it were needed.” And Carol answered, “We can only hope that all this blood will somehow, sometime water the Tree of Liberty.”

end quotes

Adam responded:

Not a chance Carol, sad to say.

end quote

Adam, I hope you are wrong. What would be a legitimate government in Egypt?

Tuesday, I watched a very good TV show on TNT called “Perception.” A neuroscientist exhibits schizophrenic behavior when he is off his medications. Astonishingly, he uses his skills and his schizophrenic delusions to help the FBI solve crimes. In the latest episode, he voluntarily commits himself to a mental institution to uncover a crime. Is it moral for a person to “commit” themselves to a mental hospital, even though they are deliberately, though temporarily, giving up some of their rights? Yes, it would be morally OK and prudent, depending on the circumstances.

Is it moral for a person to “commit” someone else to a mental hospital? Of course not, (unless . . . .) So shift this moral principle to a government. Is it moral for a person to voluntarily vote for a government that takes away someone else’s rights? No. therefore, once the duly elected Morsi government began taking away the rights of those who voted for it AND from those who did not vote for it the military had a duty to depose this “would be” emperor.

Many of our own founding fathers thought that government was “a necessary evil.” George H. Smith on page 131 in “The System of Liberty” writes, “As we have seen, Jefferson explicitly ties the right of revolution to the violation of inalienable rights.” I agree with that principle. Today, I would vote for changes in our Constitution to better secure individual rights. And ironically, considering my opposition to Rational Anarchism, I wish there were a way to accommodate the Rational Anarchists who want no government.

As Michael’s pictures demonstrate, if it were not for Western newsmen on the ground we might not know that the Muslim Brotherhood was not just “sitting in,” protesting, and rioting, but they are also attempting to kill the police and military with rocks, fire and guns. This instance of unrest is a rebellion to take away inalienable rights, so we should expect the next election to only include candidates who support individual rights. US support of Egypt should continue.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter

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Here's more:

Egyptian Govt Calls On Morsi Supporters to End Violence, as Islamists Burn Down Scores of Christian Churches and Homes
by TheTower.org Staff
August 14, 2013
TheTower

From the article:

Egyptian government and military forces are struggling to dampen violence this evening, after a day of clashes between the army and supporters of Egypt’s former Muslim Brotherhood-linked president Mohammed Morsi reportedly killed over 230 protesters and 43 police officers.

. . .

The Egyptian army seems to have regained control over areas of Cairo where Muslim Brotherhood members had been protesting.

In retaliation for the army’s actions, Morsi supporters have launched attacks against Christians and Christian buildings across Egypt. Pro-Morsi elements had been steadily escalating violence against Copts for weeks.


You just can't have a functioning democracy with a group sitting at the table that has a history of dismantling institutions and implanting a theocracy once in power--and will use violence to do it.

There is no such thing as a long-lasting Dictatorship Party that wins and loses elections in the spirit of changing power. It will struggle, using lofty rhetoric, to get power and, after that, it will do every dirty trick in the book to keep it until the power is so consolidated it can openly intimidate the citizens. And I don't mean military force at demonstrations. I mean large-scale imprisonment and executions for religious and political thought crimes.

Michael

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Military vows to rebuild Coptic Churches.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/16/egyptian-military-chief-vows-to-rebuild-coptic-churches/

Here's a list of what the Islamic supremacists have burnt down.

Until 7pm this afternoon, the following churches and Coptic-owned institutions in Egypt had been burned at the hands of Islamists. Watani lists them here chronologically:

Three churches and six buildings at the monastery of the Holy Virgin and Anba Abra’am in Dalga, Minya, Upper Egypt
The church of Mar-Mina in the district of Abu-Hilal in the town of Minya
The bishopric church of Mar-Girgis (St George) in Sohag, Upper Egypt
The church of the Holy Virgin in Nazla, Fayoum, Lower Egypt
The Baptist church in Beni-Mazar, Minya
Coptic-owned shops in Gumhouriya Street in Assiut, Upper Egypt
The Good Shepherd School in Suez
The Fransiscan School in Suez
The Holy Bible Society in Fayoum
The church of al-Amir Tawadros (St Theodore) in Fayoum
The church of the Holy Virgin in the district of Abu-Hilal in the town of Minya
The Catholic church of St Mark, Minya
The Jesuit church in Abu-Hilal, Minya
The church of Mar-Morqos (St Mark) and its community centre, Sohag
18 houses of Coptic families in Dalga, Minya, including the home of Father Angaelus Melek of the Holy Virgin and Anba Abra’am’s
The Evangelical church on Nassara Street in Abu-Hilal, Minya
The church of Anba Moussa al-Aswad in Minya
Coptic-owned shops, pharmacies, and a doctor’s clinic in Minya
The Jesuit church in Minya (attacked, not burned)
The St Fatima Basilica in Cairo (attacked, not burned)
St Joseph’s School in Minya (attacked, not burned)
The Nile boat al-Dahabiya, owned by the Evangelical Church in Minya
Coptic-owned shops, pharmacy, and hotels on Karnak Street and Cleopatra Street in Luxor (attacked and looted)
The church of Mar-Girgis (St George) in Wasta (attacked)
The church of St Michael on Nemeis Street in Assiut, Upper Egypt
The Adventist church in Assiut; the pastor and his wife were both kidnapped
The Greek church in Suez
The church of Mar-Girgis in Assiut
Coptic houses on Qulta Street in Assiut attacked
The church of Mar-Girgis (St George) in Arish, North Sinai
The church of St Dimiana and the Evangelical church in the village of Zerbi in Fayoum
The offices of the Evangelical foundation in Minya, and those of Umm al-Nour in Beni-Mazar, Minya
The church of Anba Antonius in Kerdassa, Giza
The bishopric church in Etfeeh, Giza

In addition to the attacks against the Copts, their churches, businesses, and property; Egyptians were aghast at attempts by the Islamists to break into the Bibliotheca Alexandrina (BA) in Alexandria and set it on fire. The BA security and staff confronted the assailants in the courtyard, and there was an exchange of gunfire. According to Khaled Azab, the BA’s media manager, the conference hall was plundered, and a number of acquisitions went missing. The glass façade was shattered.

In Deir Muwass, Minya, the locals called Watani in horror to report that 30 armed Islamists broke into the local water treatment station and cut off the water supply to the nearby villages and towns, meaning that should a fire erupt there would be no water to put it off.

Coptic youth organisations—including the Maspero Youth Union, Copts Without Chains, The Coptic Consultant Council, and the Coptic Coalition—have all condemned the attacks against the Copts and the inadequate protection they were offered. The demanded security protection, and called upon Egypt’s Muslims to join in their defence.

Father Rafiq Greiche, spokesman of the Catholic Church in Egypt, strongly condemned the attacks against churches and Christians, saying that the Copts were made to pay the price for their participation in the revolution against the Islamist regime on 30 June. He demanded that the State should take a firm stance against the assailants.
Fr Rafiq announced that the Catholic Church has called off the celebrations of the feast of the Assumption of the Holy Virgin tomorrow.

The Coptic Orthodox Church issued a statement in which it said it was closely following on the “lamentable situation” in Egypt today. The statement strongly condemned the “successive attacks against Egypt’s Christians, their churches, property and livelihoods,” and also the attacks against the Egyptian police and civilians. It called upon the Egyptian government and armed forces to defend Egyptians and maintain the unity of Egypt. It also called upon “our Muslim fellow Egyptians to stand against the vicious attack of places of worship which should never be part of any struggle.
“We pray to the One God we all worship for every Egyptian to be a shield to defend the homeland against terrorism and violence. We pray for peace and calm to reign over Egypt.”

Reported by Nader Shukry, Tereza Kamal, Basma William, Michael Victor, Samira Mazahy, Ra’fat Edward, Girgis Waheeb

WATANI International
14 August 2013

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Richard:

See we should learn from our Islamic brothers...look how civilized they are...a collective mindset spontaneously decides to destroy all vestiges of all foreign religions and business that are not Islamic.

Now they did not need a Congress with committees to debate long and hard and accomplish nothing.

Here, their collective reason moved them to act immediately.

Nice, clean, neat, decisive and most of all effective. The cost was low.

See how civilized they are.

A...

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Perhaps you are suggesting that my position on Islam and Muslims is collectivist? If so, you are dead wrong.

I have no idea who this guy was talking to, but I identify (not equate) his position on Islam--and Muslims, for that matter--as collectivist.

He does what every destructive collectivist (or useful idiot) does before attaining power. He denies it.

That's a moot question here, though, because this person will never attain the power to destroy others indiscriminately that lurks underneath his collectivist bigotry.

Michael

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Egypt Speaks III - Protester Bloodbath

The following story has an incredible long sequence of photos and videos of the Egyptian military clearing the protests by the Muslim Brotherhood.

British cameraman shot dead while reporting for Sky on Egypt bloodbath as protesters say as many as 149 have been killed

By JILL REILLY and STEVE NOLAN

14 August 2013

Daily Mail

The mainstream media is focusing on how brutal the military is. For example, look at how the story starts. (This section was published before the story was updated. It still reads that way.) From the article:

A British cameraman is among at least 100 killed as an operation to clear two camps filled with thousands of protestors loyal to ousted Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi descended into violent chaos.

Mick Deane was part of a Sky News team in Egypt reporting on a security force operation to raid the camps in the capital Cairo when violence broke out.

Security forces are said to have opened fire on mostly unarmed protestors with machine guns in the operation which began shortly after 7am local time.

Although the total number of dead in the clashes is unconfirmed, burned corpses have been seen on the streets which resemble a war zone.

But the photos also tell a story. Here are a few:

Military avoiding rocks:

article-2392614-1B4AECB4000005DC-460_968

Protesters push military vehicle off bridge with people still in it.

article-2392614-1B4AA01E000005DC-78_968x

More rocks:

article-2392614-1B4A40BD000005DC-523_472

Molotov cocktail components:

article-2392614-1B4A80A3000005DC-355_970

There's also a helicopter video of gunmen firing at the military:

Here's how the military also tried to do it:

article-2392758-1B4A075B000005DC-898_964

So it's not just a story of the mean old military victimizing poor unarmed protesters by shooting them without provocation. It looks to me like the military was willing to carry protesters off.

I hope the people singing the praises of the Arab Spring and supporting the rights of the Muslim Brotherhood to participate in the "democratization process" are enjoying the show. It's going to get a hell of a lot worse.

And if the Muslim Brotherhood returns to power within this context, you haven't begun to see a bloodbath--with a massive secret police force and the whole shebang.

Michael

I love the pictures. Graphic proof that Islam is the Religion of Peace.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Bob,

I don't know about Islam, but I am pretty sure about the Muslim Brotherhood.

btw - Here is something that makes a lot of sense to me about why Obama is so supportive of them:

OBAMA'S BROTHER LINKED TO MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD
Report says Malik directs radical Islamic movement's investments
by JEROME R. CORSI
August 21, 2013
WND

From the article:

President Obama’s half-brother in Kenya could cause the White House more headaches over new evidence linking him to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and establishing that controversial IRS supervisor Lois Lerner signed his tax-exempt approval letter.

Malik Obama’s oversight of the Muslim Brotherhood’s international investments is one reason for the Obama administration’s support of the Muslim Brotherhood, according to an Egyptian report citing the vice president of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Egypt, Tehani al-Gebali.

In a news report on Egyptian television of a Gebali speech, translated by researcher Walid Shoebat, a former Palestinian Liberation Organization operative, Gebali said she would like “to inform the American people that their president’s brother Obama is one of the architects of the major investments of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

“We will carry out the law, and the Americans will not stop us,” she said. “We need to open the files and begin court sessions.

“The Obama administration cannot stop us; they know that they supported terrorism,” she continued. “We will open the files so these nations are exposed, to show how they collaborated with [the terrorists]. It is for this reason that the American administration fights us.”

Wouldn't it be a pisser of all that bloodshed the USA helped cause by pushing the Arab Spring was nothing more than money? I mean from the USA side. Maybe Obama is paying back his brother for years and years of under-the-table support?

Michael

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I hope real reporters check this one out. WND is not a reliable news source. I would not accept anything they say as fact unless it was confirmed from other sources. That is not to say the story is false or pure propaganda, but WND's sources such as Shoebat are more concerned with agenda than with research.

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Bob,

I don't know about Islam, but I am pretty sure about the Muslim Brotherhood.

btw - Here is something that makes a lot of sense to me about why Obama is so supportive of them:

OBAMA'S BROTHER LINKED TO MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

Report says Malik directs radical Islamic movement's investments

by JEROME R. CORSI

August 21, 2013

WND

From the article:

President Obama’s half-brother in Kenya could cause the White House more headaches over new evidence linking him to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and establishing that controversial IRS supervisor Lois Lerner signed his tax-exempt approval letter.

Malik Obama’s oversight of the Muslim Brotherhood’s international investments is one reason for the Obama administration’s support of the Muslim Brotherhood, according to an Egyptian report citing the vice president of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Egypt, Tehani al-Gebali.

In a news report on Egyptian television of a Gebali speech, translated by researcher Walid Shoebat, a former Palestinian Liberation Organization operative, Gebali said she would like “to inform the American people that their president’s brother Obama is one of the architects of the major investments of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

“We will carry out the law, and the Americans will not stop us,” she said. “We need to open the files and begin court sessions.

“The Obama administration cannot stop us; they know that they supported terrorism,” she continued. “We will open the files so these nations are exposed, to show how they collaborated with [the terrorists]. It is for this reason that the American administration fights us.”

Wouldn't it be a pisser of all that bloodshed the USA helped cause by pushing the Arab Spring was nothing more than money? I mean from the USA side. Maybe Obama is paying back his brother for years and years of under-the-table support?

Michael

In Egypt non-Muslims are in the very minor minority. Copts are in danger of being killed or driven out of Egypt. What is left is Muslim.

Egypt is a Muslim country. That is the sad fact.

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That is a false comparison. By "a product of the USA" you're certainly not referring to Enlightenment ideas or anything approaching the Constitution. In fact, nothing specific at all. You' re meaning an amorphous collection of people all adhering to different philosophical outlooks, from hedonism to nihilism to each and every outlook there is. A bit of detective work and you certainly could identify the philosophy that underpins those gang members. When I say the MB is a product of Islam I mean they are products of the teachings of Muhammad.

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Using that logic, a street gang is the product of the USA.

So what?

Besides, I don't know any Mr. of Mrs. Islam who make products.

(Man, do I dislike collectivist thinking...)

Michael

Even so, societies and laws shape the way individual people behave.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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