How Can Their Actions Be Ethical On Any Level...

[deanwins]

Officer 1: "Drop the knife! Drop the knife!"

Officer 2: "He's not responding. Shoot him with the beanbags!"

Officer 3: "He's not responding. Send in the attack dog!"

Officer 2: "He's not responding, so its probably safe to approach him. Step on his arms, disarm him, and cuff him!"

It sounded to me like the victim yelled out something like "Don't hurt me!" while on the ground. As if he didn't realize his wounds were critically deadly. I guess when you get shot in the heart maybe you can't tell whether it was just a rubber bullet or your heart exploding?

Looks like the breakdown of civilization to me.

[moralist]

Looks like the breakdown of civilization to me.

I see the breakdown of civilization as a narcoculture steeped in alcohol and dope. But that's only a symptom of something else...

Greg

[tmj]

Greg

But what of other views and only bringing consequences on yourself and deservedly so?

Do tazer darts effectively penetrate multiple layers of clothing?

[moralist]

Greg

But what of other views and only bringing consequences on yourself and deservedly so?

The guy sure brought consequences on himself when he drew his knife on the cops. Dopers don't think about moral consequences. That's the whole idea of drugs. Escape from Conscience.

Do tazer darts effectively penetrate multiple layers of clothing?

I don't know. I do know that people wired on dope can be like wild animals. Passive one moment and wildly violently aggressive in the next.

Greg

[BaalChatzaf]

Greg

But what of other views and only bringing consequences on yourself and deservedly so?

The guy sure brought consequences on himself when he drew his knife on the cops. Dopers don't think about moral consequences. That's the whole idea of drugs. Escape from Conscience.

Do tazer darts effectively penetrate multiple layers of clothing?

I don't know. I do know that people wired on dope can be like wild animals. Passive one moment and wildly violently aggressive in the next.

Greg

Doing dope might be for the purpose of feeling good. Unfortunately there are several bad side effects that accompany feeling good (by means of dope or intoxication).

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Dope isn't the only addiction impacting the modern world.

Michael

[moralist]

Doing dope might be for the purpose of feeling good.

That's right, Bob...

But feeling good relative to what? It's not running towards good feelings, but rather running away from bad feelings. The purpose of dope is to escape from the awareness of a morally violated Conscience. And this is why America is saturated with it.

Unfortunately there are several bad side effects that accompany feeling good (by means of dope or intoxication).

Ba'al Chatzaf

Yes. There are many.

Unresolved internal moral conflicts only make people worse as they set into motion all manner of disastrous consequences.

Greg

[moralist]

Dope isn't the only addiction impacting the modern world.

Michael

It certainly isn't, Michael. There is also addiction to marijuana, alcohol, and prescription drugs... not to mention the emotional addiction to angry blame, to the unjust accusation of others.

Greg

[Jules Troy]

Pass the "Victory Gin" may soon be an Orwellian common saying..

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

There is also addiction to marijuana, alcohol, and prescription drugs...

Greg,

That's quite a nuance.

In my day and in my circles, pot and prescription drugs were also called dope.

And alcohol was called a drug when I went through NA. I've never heard it called dope, but deep inside myself, I think of it that way. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

I agree with you that some people are addicted to blaming others, but I hesitate on calling it an addiction for most people. We are hard-wired to seek outside reasons for our inner worries. It's a cognitive bias and there is some science backing this up. Let's say I'll call it an addiction when this cognitive bias goes into full bloom as a lifestyle.

btw - This is a secret weapon of marketers. First you make the prospect feel real bad by getting him to imagine something that is eating at him--and you go into glorious details about what that looks like and how awful it hurts. Then you twist the knife and tell him it's even worse than he imagined and paint a picture of how that thing is screwing up other stuff in his life and that of his loved ones.

Then you tell him, "But this is actually not your fault. What's really going on is xxxxxxxxx," with xxxxxxxxx being something external to the prospect (a bug, a bad situation in society, a biological limitation, whatever). As he is going, "Whew! It's not me, I'm not screwing up..." you lay the magic bullet on him to make it all go away: your product. And you paint a picture of what a wonderful after-using-product life he will have.

Then you tell him there ain't too many units left (or left at that price, etc.), so if he doesn't get it now, he will have to keep suffering with that awful external thing. And that would be a damn shame. So get it now and stop worrying!

Kaching!

One of the reasons I resonate so well with your mantra about people getting what they deserve is that this posture is a great counterbalance to that innate bias.

On another note, I think one of the biggest destructive addictions in the USA is debt.

Michael

[moralist]

Greg,

That's quite a nuance.

In my day and in my circles, pot and prescription drugs were also called dope.

Same here, Michael. But today, prescription drug abuse has grown into such an epidemic so as to have earned its own genre. And in the US, MORE marijuana is grown than corn and wheat COMBINED.

I'd never thought that I would see the day when dope smoking was more important than food. But that is what a narcoculture is. In 2006, the US produced $35,000,000,000 worth of marijuana making it by far the largest cash crop in the nation. So much marijuana is being grown in California that it's actually destroying native forests and threatening wildlife.

In 2010, the annual California pot crop was valued at $14,000,000,000.

And alcohol was called a drug when I went through NA. I've never heard it called dope, but deep inside myself, I think of it that way. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Yeah, even though they're physically different I regard them as all being the same because of their single purpose.

I agree with you that some people are addicted to blaming others, but I hesitate on calling it an addiction for most people.

That's true. There are certainly gradations to everything.

But I do know this... every manifestation of evil is always preceded by angry blame (the unjust accusation of others), where the perpetrator first fantasizes themselves to be a "victim of injustice".

We are hard-wired to seek outside reasons for our inner worries. It's a cognitive bias and there is some science backing this up. Let's say I'll call it an addiction when this cognitive bias goes into full bloom as a lifestyle.

btw - This is a secret weapon of marketers. First you make the prospect feel real bad by getting him to imagine something that is eating at him--and you go into glorious details about what that looks like and how awful it hurts. Then you twist the knife and tell him it's even worse than he imagined and paint a picture of how that thing is screwing up other stuff in his life and that of his loved ones.

Then you tell him, "But this is actually not your fault. What's really going on is xxxxxxxxx," with xxxxxxxxx being something external to the prospect (a bug, a bad situation in society, a biological limitation, whatever). As he is going, "Whew! It's not me, I'm not screwing up..." you lay the magic bullet on him to make it all go away: your product. And you paint a picture of what a wonderful after-using-product life he will have.

Then you tell him there ain't too many units left (or left at that price, etc.), so if he doesn't get it now, he will have to keep suffering with that awful external thing. And that would be a damn shame. So get it now and stop worrying!

Kaching!

You are SO right, Michael. Syndromes are literally marketed to people, and their strong appeal is that they provide something external to blame (unjustly accuse) for an inner failure.

The latest radio syndrome marketing blitz here is one called "Non Twenty Four". It has completely saturated the airways. Suckers are first convinced that they have it, and that's easy because it is something external for them to blame for their own inner failure to live right. And then new drugs are trotted out which are reported to "cure" the malady, when all they actually do is suppress symptoms.

This is the essence of the American narcoculture:

All human behavior is just chemical reactions in the brain, so every problem known to man can be cured by finding just the right chemical to control behavior.

One of the reasons I resonate so well with your mantra about people getting what they deserve is that this posture is a great counterbalance to that innate bias.

On another note, I think one of the biggest destructive addictions in the USA is debt.

Michael

Oh, man... don't get me going on that one!

Greg

[Selene]

The latest radio syndrome marketing blitz here is one called "Non Twenty Four".

Does this commercial have to do with blindness?

[moralist]

The latest radio syndrome marketing blitz here is one called "Non Twenty Four".

Does this commercial have to do with blindness?

No.

That's just an advertising hook to catch suckers. The syndrome is being pimped as a sleep disorder. When they convince enough suckers that they have it, then comes the "cure"... a new drug. And the suckers will run to get it like flies to feces.

The REAL kicker is to get Non Twenty Four legitimized as a health disorder so then the drug "cure" will be covered by insurance. As Michael said...

...kaching!

Insurance coverage for Non Twenty Four is the effing Holy Grail the narcoculture syndrome pimps are going for.

Greg

[dldelancey]

And in the US, MORE marijuana is grown than corn and wheat COMBINED.

I'd never thought that I would see the day when dope smoking was more important than food. But that is what a narcoculture is. In 2006, the US produced $35,000,000,000 worth of marijuana making it by far the largest cash crop in the nation. So much marijuana is being grown in California that it's actually destroying native forests and threatening wildlife.

In 2010, the annual California pot crop was valued at $14,000,000,000.

That first sentence leads one to believe that this conclusion is based on volume, in which case this is simply false. Acre for acre, marijuana is certainly not grown more than corn in the US, much less more than corn and wheat combined. The US grows roughly 32% of the world's corn, 800 million acres. If there were that much marijuana being grown here, there'd be much more evidence of it.

The rest of the passage switches to an argument based on value, rather than on volume, but that's somewhat misleading considering that corn, even at unprecedented highs (no pun intended), is still valued at less than $10 per bushel while marijuana could be valued at thousands of dollars per bushel, depending on who is doing the valuing. Further, assuming the stated figures are based on the 2006 Jon Gettman report, those numbers have been disputed.

[moralist]

And in the US, MORE marijuana is grown than corn and wheat COMBINED.

I'd never thought that I would see the day when dope smoking was more important than food. But that is what a narcoculture is. In 2006, the US produced $35,000,000,000 worth of marijuana making it by far the largest cash crop in the nation. So much marijuana is being grown in California that it's actually destroying native forests and threatening wildlife.

In 2010, the annual California pot crop was valued at $14,000,000,000.

That first sentence leads one to believe that this conclusion is based on volume, in which case this is simply false. Acre for acre, marijuana is certainly not grown more than corn in the US, much less more than corn and wheat combined. The US grows roughly 32% of the world's corn, 800 million acres. If there were that much marijuana being grown here, there'd be much more evidence of it.

The rest of the passage switches to an argument based on value, rather than on volume, but that's somewhat misleading considering that corn, even at unprecedented highs (no pun intended), is still valued at less than $10 per bushel while marijuana could be valued at thousands of dollars per bushel, depending on who is doing the valuing. Further, assuming the stated figures are based on the 2006 Jon Gettman report, those numbers have been disputed.

Yes.

On value.

The narcoculture places a higher value on smoking dope than on food.

Greg

[Selene]

On value.

The narcoculture places a higher value on smoking dope than on food.

Greg

Your assertion above has no factual proof presented by you to support it.

[SoAMadDeathWish]

Yes.

On value.

The narcoculture places a higher value on smoking dope than on food.

Greg

Careful here. The higher price means they place a higher value on a marginal unit of dope than a marginal unit of food.

[moralist]

On value.

The narcoculture places a higher value on smoking dope than on food.

Greg

Your assertion above has no factual proof presented by you to support it.

That's fine, Adam.

It's just my opinion.

...and I didn't even mention the tons of marijuana imported into the US. The demand for dope by the narcoculture is insatiable.

Greg

[Selene]

That's fine, Adam.

It's just my opinion.

...and I didn't even mention the tons of marijuana imported into the US. The demand for dope by the narcoculture is insatiable.

Not a problem just wanted to be clear.

[anthony]

How did this get to the subject of dope? Oh, I get it. The cops who gunned down the homeless man were jittery on crack. Is that it? Makes sense.

[Jules Troy]

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/rcmp-video-shows-man-hog-tied-and-tasered-before-death-1.762431

At least your homeless guy died fast. Up here in Canada they like to torture you to death while hog tied.

[moralist]

How did this get to the subject of dope? Oh, I get it. The cops who gunned down the homeless man were jittery on crack. Is that it? Makes sense.

Someone mentioned the guy appeared to be psychotic or disoriented, then I commented that Tasers don't always work on people who are high on dope... then it all went downhill after that.

Greg

[Jules Troy]

Hey I steered it back!(sort of)

[moralist]

Hey I steered it back!(sort of)

Good on you, Jules.

Greg

[Jules Troy]

He didn't get what he deserved. No one deserves that kind of treatment.

The "official" police report stating he died of a "cocaine overdose" is laughable. Being tasered multiple times while helplessly hog tied as your heart is already racing at 200 beats/minute due to the cocaine in his system plus the trauma of being dragged face first on the ground is what killed him. The offending officers should be charged with murder. Knowing he was possibly going through cocaine psychosis he should have been restrained and taken to a hospital to be monitored and treated. THEN he should have been remanded into custody to face what ever charges he was arrested for.