Has any sentence or phrase turned you off a book?


pippi

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> My screen name is an anagram, as I've mentioned before. "Daunce" is made up and Lynam is my married name.

I have this wonderful little electronic dictionary now. It has an anagram solver. I entered dauncelynam, then I tried daunce:

"Not Found!"

Hmm...my reaction, Carol: WGCIOHLOADSSE

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> My screen name is an anagram, as I've mentioned before. "Daunce" is made up and Lynam is my married name.

I have this wonderful little electronic dictionary now. It has an anagram solver. I entered dauncelynam, then I tried daunce:

"Not Found!"

Hmm...my reaction, Carol: WGCIOHLOADSSE

Nice to know that an individual can still be more individual/cleverer than other individuals who program electronics. Guess the Singularity is not here yet.

But not clever enough to figure out 13-letter acronyms. I have not acronym solver, not being as technologically advanced as you, and to go to Staples and buy one would be cheating.

If your reaction is printable, traduire SVP.

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> My screen name is an anagram, as I've mentioned before. "Daunce" is made up and Lynam is my married name.

I have this wonderful little electronic dictionary now. It has an anagram solver. I entered dauncelynam, then I tried daunce:

"Not Found!"

Hmm...my reaction, Carol: WGCIOHLOADSSE

Nice to know that an individual can still be more individual/cleverer than other individuals who program electronics. Guess the Singularity is not here yet.

But not clever enough to figure out 13-letter acronyms. I have not acronym solver, not being as technologically advanced as you, and to go to Staples and buy one would be cheating.

If your reaction is printable, traduire SVP.

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Re gagging, the lyrics of "My Way" are pathetic. I know, I know, the sense of life and all that, but I repeat, as a lyric it is lame.

I have other dislikes of this fave (I also hate "Amazing Grace") such as the melody, the singer and composer whom I do not admire as people, and so on, but I will stick to the most egregious examples of Bad Words.

"if not himself, then he has nought" - you hear that and think, "not what?" - who uses Nought in a 20th-century song except comically?

"the words of one who kneels" - looks OK on paper, sounds silly and strained when sung. Coming at the crescendo as it does, it's bathetic.

"not in a shy way" - again, straining for a rhyme, using a negative when a positive would be expected. "Head held in high way" wouldn't have been much worse here.

I could go on, but I have to get ready for the funeral of Old Man Kneelnought. There won't be many people there because he was hard to get along with and nobody liked him. Guess what the music's going to be.

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I don't think "John Galt laughed" is as bad phrase as the one I quoted. UGH!

Pippi,

I don't know of any book that starts like that.

Are you referring to The Fountainhead? It starts like this:

Howard Roark laughed.

Don't feel bad, though. I've made my own share of elementary blunders--as we all have. The trick is not ever to make that one again.

Michael

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I don't think "John Galt laughed" is as bad phrase as the one I quoted. UGH!

Pippi,

I don't know of any book that starts like that.

Are you referring to The Fountainhead? It starts like this:

Howard Roark laughed.

Don't feel bad, though. I've made my own share of elementary blunders--as we all have. The trick is not ever to make that one again.

Michael

omg LOL! Thanks Michael

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> Hmm...my reaction, Carol: WGCIOHLOADSSE [Phil]

> I'm not clever enough to figure out 13-letter acronyms [Daunce]

It stands for WILD GOOSE CHASE, of course. :-)

Which is what you led me on with "Daunce" supposedly being an anagram. Your turn. You owe me an anagram solution: what did you have in mind with Daunce?

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> Hmm...my reaction, Carol: WGCIOHLOADSSE [Phil]

> I'm not clever enough to figure out 13-letter acronyms [Daunce]

It stands for WILD GOOSE CHASE, of course. :-)

Which is what you led me on with "Daunce" supposedly being an anagram. Your turn. You owe me an anagram solution: what did you have in mind with Daunce?

Sorry, I was unclear. The whole name dauncelynam is an anagram for a three word name. Daunce doesn 't mean anything except the available letters (Cenuda, Aducen etc I didn't like much) though I like the association with dauntless.

Dunce, not so much.

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"He stared at the blank page/screen/canvas and willed his mind to summon words/brushstrokes. Instead, his mind rebelliously summoned the image of last night/summer/year and dispensable though unforgettable Maria/Ivan....his slavish loins obeyed his mind...

this is the fault of rde

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Sorry, I was unclear. The whole name dauncelynam is an anagram for a three word name. Daunce doesn 't mean anything except the available letters (Cenuda, Aducen etc I didn't like much) though I like the association with dauntless.

Dunce, not so much.

Maybe you can produce for us an homage to Alexander Pope's The Dunciad. Just a random thought. I haven't even read the original. The Daunciad, sounds like the name of a spaceship, and at least it's easier to say than Kobayashi Maru.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dunciad

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Sorry, I was unclear. The whole name dauncelynam is an anagram for a three word name. Daunce doesn 't mean anything except the available letters (Cenuda, Aducen etc I didn't like much) though I like the association with dauntless.

Dunce, not so much.

Maybe you can produce for us an homage to Alexander Pope's The Dunciad. Just a random thought. I haven't even read the original. The Daunciad, sounds like the name of a spaceship, and at least it's easier to say than Kobayashi Maru.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dunciad

" a wonderhouse of thoughts, alive and dead

forever reading, never to be read.."

How's that? haven't read the D in forever either, but feeling more cheerful about my dunciness,

Carol

proudly wearing the cap

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Daunce and Xray,

In reading your last couple of posts, I experienced a deep chortle :)

With "chortle" I associate someone snorting loudly "Hhhrrmmpff! into an oversized handkerchief. :D

I googled "chortle" and it said Lewis Carroll coined this word as combination of "chuckle" and "snort", so my association was not that far-fetched.

"Snortle" would be another possible combination. I just imagine Tweedledee chortling and Tweedledum snortling as they sit down at the tea table where the Hatter and the March Hare are celebrating another of their non-birthday parties. ;)

Alice is one of my favorite female fiction characters! Cool kid!

But I'm getting carried away and forget that is not the thread of praise, but the opposite, so back on topic:

I threw Erica Jong's book Fear of Flying away, so I can't give the exact quote, but what totally turned me off was this passage where the heroine praises the "zipless f***".

Imo Fear of Flying is a very unerotic story. Full of blunt sexual language, but there's zero erotics in it. But then this is my perspective only.

I thought of Daunce as a sort of unisex name like Ashley or Sydney are now (or Chris or Lee for that matter) but it does seem to have a masculine sound.

I too thought of Daunce as a male name initially. But then I always tend to assume a poster on OL is male unless the screen name or the avatar suggests otherwise.

Interesting that while women can choose male-sounding poster names, the opposite is very rare. Hard to imagine a man choosing a nick like e. g. "Susie", isn't it? :)

Edited by Xray
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Daunce and Xray,

In reading your last couple of posts, I experienced a deep chortle :)

With "chortle" I associate someone snorting loudly "Hhhrrmmpff! into an oversized handkerchief. :D

I googled "chortle" and it said Lewis Carroll coined this word as combination of "chuckle" and "snort", so my association was not that far-fetched.

"Snortle" would be another possible combination. I just imagine Tweedledee chortling and Tweedledum snortling as they sit down at the tea table where the Hatter and the March Hare are celebrating another of their non-birthday parties. ;)

Alice is one of my favorite female fiction characters! Cool kid!

But I'm getting carried away and forget that is not the thread of praise, but the opposite, so back on topic:

I threw Erica Jong's book Fear of Flying away, so I can't give the exact quote, but what totally turned me off was this passage where heroine praises the "zipless f***".

Imo Fear of Flying is a very unerotic story. Full of blunt sexual language, but there's zero erotics in it. But then this is my perspective only.

Yes, the sex parts were really boring, though she's not a bad writer. The most interesting parts I remember were about her first husband, the genius paranoid schizophrenic. She fell in love with him because "he just knew and knew and knew things". Bad enough to marry somebody believing him to be your total intellectual superior, let alone having him go crazy on you.

The best feminist writer of that era was Marge Peircy. "Vida" is a classic.

I didn't know Carroll invented chortle! What a mind. I love snortle also. Too bad we don't have such a variety of ways to describe "sob", "weep", etc.

I also hate having to read about characters blowing their noses after they sob and weep.

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Consider a quite famous introductory sentence:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

--Assessment? Value judgments?

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Consider a quite famous introductory sentence:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

--Assessment? Value judgments?

Sure..what is your point?

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Consider a quite famous introductory sentence:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

--Assessment? Value judgments?

A Tale of Two Cities was the second Dickens novel I read (I was a freshman in high school), and I found that opening sentence both enticing and exhilirating from the moment I first laid eyes upon it.

JR

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I threw Erica Jong's book Fear of Flying away, so I can't give the exact quote, but what totally turned me off was this passage where heroine praises the "zipless f***".

Imo Fear of Flying is a very unerotic story. Full of blunt sexual language, but there's zero erotics in it. But then this is my perspective only.

Yes, the sex parts were really boring, though she's not a bad writer.

Erica Yong writes with sweep and power, no question about it, and has the ability to create characters full of life.

The most interesting parts I remember were about her first husband, the genius paranoid schizophrenic.

She fell in love with him because "he just knew and knew and knew things". Bad enough to marry somebody believing him to be your total intellectual superior, let alone having him go crazy on you.

Ths is often subject in in literary fiction: women falling in love and marrying a man they conceive as their intellectual superior, and the problems arising from such a union. A great and poignant example is Dorothea Brooke, the heroine in Middlemarch who marries an elderly scholar (Edward Casaubon).

I also hate having to read about characters blowing their noses after they sob and weep.

Terrible, isn't it? I too hate reading about that. Athough I prefer realistic stories over fantasy and science fiction, certain things I prefer not to have described too realistically in a work of fiction ...

Edited by Xray
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Consider a quite famous introductory sentence:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

--Assessment? Value judgments?

A Tale of Two Cities was the second Dickens novel I read (I was a freshman in high school), and I found that opening sentence both enticing and exhilirating from the moment I first laid eyes upon it.

JR

I had exactly the same feeling when reading the passage. It would be interesting to analyze what precisely creates this reaction in the reader.

Question to Phil (who initially posted the quote here): What was your reaction to this passage?

Edited by Xray
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I threw Erica Jong's book Fear of Flying away, so I can't give the exact quote, but what totally turned me off was this passage where heroine praises the "zipless f***".

Imo Fear of Flying is a very unerotic story. Full of blunt sexual language, but there's zero erotics in it. But then this is my perspective only.

Yes, the sex parts were really boring, though she's not a bad writer.

Erica Yong writes with sweep and power, no question about it, and has the ability to create characters full of life.

The most interesting parts I remember were about her first husband, the genius paranoid schizophrenic.

She fell in love with him because "he just knew and knew and knew things". Bad enough to marry somebody believing him to be your total intellectual superior, let alone having him go crazy on you.

Ths is often subject in in literary fiction: women falling in love and marrying a man they conceive as their intellectual superior, and the problems arising from such a union. A great and poignant example is Dorothea Brooke, the heroine in Middlemarch who marries an elderly scholar (Edward Casaubon).

I also hate having to read about characters blowing their noses after they sob and weep.

Terrible, isn't it? I too hate reading about that. Athough I prefer realistic stories over fantasy and science fiction, certain things I prefer not to have described too realistically in a work of fiction.

Oh, yes! Middlemarch is my absolute gold standard, I have read it four times, and Casaubon is a timeless cautionary figure for all scholars and writers. Dorothea's total disillusionment when she has to realize that the great, transformative work she wanted to dedicate herself to helping bring forth, was just a pile of lifeless pedantry, is sorrowful to read. The disillusionment of poor Cheryl with the character of her husband in AS is an echo of this.

How wise and brilliant Mary Ann Evans was.

At the opposite novelistic pole, this also irritates me hugely:

"He ran through the swirling mist, chasing the dim figure, while behind him, he knew, a dark terrible shape came closer, ever closer...

He awoke, his heart pounding, panting for breath."

I am not interested in other people's dreamscapes unless I know them and am interested in their psychology and preoccupations. This lazy cliche way of introducing a story is no way to get me interested in the character. I'll usually read further to see what the character does when he wakes up, but if he has the same dream again, I'm outta there.

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Subject: "Best of sentences, Worst of sentences"

> I found that opening sentence both enticing and exhilirating from the moment I first laid eyes upon it. [Jeff]

> I had exactly the same feeling when reading the passage. Question to Phil (who initially posted the quote here): What was your reaction to this passage? [Xray]

Xray, I had exactly the same reaction you and Jeff did. The two most important parts of a story and often of other things - are the beginning and the end. "Tale of Two Cities" has both - from the refreshingly paradoxical run-on sentence that starts it, to the brief words of a man going to his execution that ends it. Genius is sometimes rule-breaking. Dickens breaks the rules** about run-on sentences pasted together with commas for dramatic, intriguing force. It was like a jolt of caffeine. I wanted to know the ways in which the different contrasting aspects could be true.

> It would be interesting to analyze what precisely creates this reaction in the reader.

He keeps such a long sentence 'rolling' and 'building' by not tiring us. Since it's going to be long, he keeps each of the contrasts short: terse phrases with just a single word changed to an opposite. The phrases have perfect parallelism (best of...worst of, season of...season of, before us...before us). He starts by repeating the tersest possible 'was' and 'of' phrases and then once we are used to that, he lengthens them gradually and alters them with new verbs (but still the shortest and simplest of verbs - 'had', 'were going').

Compare this to a more conventional "on the one hand/on the other hand" introduction an academic might write listing every factor explicitly and abstractly.

I had the feeling the Dickens sentence was bearing down on me like an express train. And I liked it when it ran right over me. I knew I was in the hands of a powerful and interesting writer and I reached out a hand and was ready to grab hold, hang on, hop aboard.

**Strunk and White, anyone???

Edited by Philip Coates
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Oh, yes! Middlemarch is my absolute gold standard, I have read it four times, and Casaubon is a timeless cautionary figure for all scholars and writers.

I'm thrilled that you share my enthusiasm for this great novel, Daunce!

Dorothea's total disillusionment when she has to realize that the great, transformative work she wanted to dedicate herself to helping bring forth, was just a pile of lifeless pedantry, is sorrowful to read.

No reader will forget this poignant scene, as the words just keep pouring out of Dorothea's mouth; to feel all her disillusionment is so heartbreaking! Dorothea is an immensely appealing character, a simply wonderful person.

All the time while she was with Casaubon I had the urge to cry out to her: "Run away, Dorothea, oh please, leave him while it's still time!" Rarely have I felt so much empathy with a heroine's fate, and it is Mary Ann Evans's (pen name George Eliot) creative genius who brings all this about.

The disillusionment of poor Cheryl with the character of her husband in AS is an echo of this.

Cheryl's disillusionment is also one of things that will stick to the reader's mind forever. One may forget this or that about AS, but not about Cheryl's disillusionment and the tragedy resulting in it. Rand's portrayal of the social worker was so unconvincing though that Cheryl's suicide got an almost surrealistic touch to it.

As for Dorothea, she is a stronger character than Cheryl, not letting her disillusion crush her personality.

Dorothea is often called an "altruist" because of her social conscience, but when one sees how much fulfillment and self-esteem she draws from her acts, this invites to scrutinize so-called "altruistic" acts more closely.

For the joy of giving, the joy of bettering the circumstances of those in less fortunate circumstances, all this can powerfully contribute to a sense of purpose in a person's life.

Edited by Xray
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