kiaer.ts Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 http://www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/feature/2011/03/23/camille_paglia_on_elizabeth_taylorRichard Burton, who was supposed to become the next great Shakespearean actor after Laurence Olivier, used to say how much he had learned from Elizabeth about how to work with the camera. Cinematic acting is extremely understated. The slightest little flick of an eyelid says an enormous amount, and that's where Elizabeth Taylor was far superior to Meryl Streep. Streep is always cranking it and cranking it, working it and working it, demanding that the audience bow down and "See what I"m going through! See what I'm doing for you!" Streep is an intelligent, good actress, but she doesn't come anywhere near Elizabeth Taylor on the screen. Because she wasn't a trained stage actress like Streep, Taylor has vocal weaknesses -- at high pitch, she can get a bit screechy -- which is perfect for Martha in "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" but not so good for Cleopatra. But she was like a luscious, opulent, ripe fruit. She enjoyed life to the max. She loved to eat and drink, she loved baubles, and she had a terrific sense of humor -- people would say they could hear her raucously laughing from a mile away. She was a basic, down-to-earth gal who could play queens when she had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 I can easily imagine Ayn Rand writing this:Is there really no one else who has made that sort of splash? I'm having a hard time coming up with one. Angelina Jolie, perhaps?For me, Jolie's greatest performance was in "Gia," where she played the bisexual fashion model Gia Carangi, who died of AIDS. Jolie is amazing in that. She had the sensuality and animal energy of Ava Gardner, which virtually no one has been able to duplicate. But after she got huge around the world, Jolie decided to become the big humanitarian. Elizabeth Taylor did that, but it was later in her career. So suddenly Angelina Jolie thinks she's a U.N. ambassador for all human misery in the world. Everything turns high concept, and soon she's collecting a multiracial menagerie of children. The result is a total flattening out of her artistic image. In a way, she suffers from the problem of being a star in the age of paparazzi, where you're much more hounded than even Elizabeth Taylor ever was. Marilyn Monroe was certainly harassed by the press and hated it, but not like today, where there's hardly a place on earth to have your own thoughts. So Angelina Jolie became defensive and covert, and now there's something too calculated and manipulative about her public persona, so she's less interesting than she was. Of course, there are no great roles being written for her. She gets action adventure scripts, like Lara Croft, where a contemporary woman has to show she's tough and can duke it out with the guys. But I'm not sure Jolie would have been able to handle some of the roles Elizabeth Taylor did so well like "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." There's a relaxation at the heart of Elizabeth Taylor's acting style -- and also in Elizabeth Taylor the woman-- whereas you always feel a wariness or tension in Jolie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Biggers Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Sorry, Liz would have been clueless as Lillian Rearden. But our current Secretary of State might fit the bill rather nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Sorry, Liz would have been clueless as Lillian Rearden. But our current Secretary of State might fit the bill rather nicely.I'm no huge fan, but she did admirably in Suddenly, Last Summer, and from what I have seen of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Butterfield 8, and Who's Afraid, she would have been perfect for the part. You'd make a good Balph Eubanks with those quips of yours, but wrong movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) http://www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/feature/2011/03/23/camille_paglia_on_elizabeth_taylorRichard Burton, who was supposed to become the next great Shakespearean actor after Laurence Olivier, used to say how much he had learned from Elizabeth about how to work with the camera. That's a huge compliment to Liz, considering what a gifted actor Burton himself was. Cinematic acting is extremely understated. The slightest little flick of an eyelid says an enormous amount,and that's where Elizabeth Taylor was far superior to Meryl Streep. But does it make sense to compare Taylor and Streep at all? They are so totally different. Imo the roles Streep played, Liz could not have played, and vice versa. As opposed to Meryl, beautiful Liz could play the "looker" card, and, let's call spade a spade, when a beautiful and sensually attractive actress like Liz "flicks an eyelid", the cinematic effect is just there; less sensually attractive actresses like Streep could "flick an eyelid" all they wanted, the cinematic effect won't be there. Streep is always cranking it and cranking it, working it and working it, demanding that the audience bow down and "See what I"m going through! See what I'm doing for you!" I don't get that impression from Streep's acting at all. Instead I have often admired how effortlessly she can convincingly bring to life on screen vastly different characters. Streep is an intelligent, good actress, but she doesn't come anywhere near Elizabeth Taylor on the screen. It's because Taylor, in addition to being a good actress, also had sensual beauty as an asset. Edited March 24, 2011 by Xray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Can anyone name the "lady's" eight (8) husbands and four (4) children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Sorry, Liz would have been clueless as Lillian Rearden. But our current Secretary of State might fit the bill rather nicely.I'm no huge fan, but she did admirably in Suddenly, Last Summer, and from what I have seen of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Butterfield 8, and Who's Afraid, she would have been perfect for the part. You'd make a good Balph Eubanks with those quips of yours, but wrong movie.Thinking about it, I have never seen Liz starring in a lousy film. A Place in the Sun is among my favorite films with Taylor, and also Giant.I agree with Jerry Biggers as to Liz not being suitable for the role of Lilian Rearden. But not because Liz would have been "clueless", but because Liz would have been far too sensually attractive for the role, and thus would have been a too strong rival for an actress playing Dagny. Edited March 24, 2011 by Xray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Sorry, Liz would have been clueless as Lillian Rearden. But our current Secretary of State might fit the bill rather nicely.I'm no huge fan, but she did admirably in Suddenly, Last Summer, and from what I have seen of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Butterfield 8, and Who's Afraid, she would have been perfect for the part. You'd make a good Balph Eubanks with those quips of yours, but wrong movie.Thinking about it, I have never seen Liz starring in a lousy film. A Place in the Sun is among my favorite films with Taylor, and also Giant.I agree with Jerry Biggers as to Liz not being suitable for the role of Lilian Rearden. But not because Liz would have been "clueless", but because Liz would have been far too sensually attractive for the role, and thus would have been a too strong rival for an actress playing Dagny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The Taming of the Shrew was so lush and pitch-perfect you should watch it in a bubble bath with candles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I agree with Jerry Biggers as to Liz not being suitable for the role of Lilian Rearden. But not because Liz would have been "clueless", but because Liz would have been far too sensually attractive for the role, and thus would have been a too strong rival for an actress playing Dagny.A bit of side by side comparison and I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 "Burton once disagreed with others about Taylor's famed beauty, saying that calling her "the most beautiful woman in the world is absolute nonsense. She has wonderful eyes, but she has a double chin and an overdeveloped chest, and she’s rather short in the leg."[4] On another occasion, however, he praised her lavishly, stating that, when he first saw Taylor in 1952, "She was unquestionably gorgeous. I can think of no other word to describe a combination of plentitude, frugality, abundance, tightness. She was lavish. She was a dark unyielding largesse. She was, in short, too bloody much."[19]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Where is Ba'al when you need him?Elizabeth Taylor's Jewish ConversionI did not know that she was a convert. Hollywood's Jews hide behind wasp names, if for no other reason than they fit the marquees better. (Not Jewish was Doris Day, Doris Mary Ann von Kappelhoff.) I grew up with Elizabeth Taylor, in the sense that news of her was current in the house when I was a child. I was a freshman in college for Virginia Wolf and it was shocking to consider what my professors' homes were like... then I met one of the shrews... But long after after Virginia Wolf, I was in a rare Dunkin Donuts in Southfield, Michigan. Southfield, for instance, placed a couple of overpasses across I-696 so that Jews can walk to temple. This Dunkin Donuts was actually kosher. It was also an intercity bus stop. Waiting for a bus back to Lansing, I overheard two women gosipping about Elizabeth Taylor as if they knew her from their own congregation. So, I just assumed she was really Jewish. I am not a movie person. I think of the actors, not the directors, and I don't keep them straight, because they come and go like hemlines and neckties. But for all of my ignorance, it is clear that Elizabeth Taylor had way too much presence for Lillian Rearden, or for any woman in any Ayn Rand story. If I may, allow me to suggest that Ayn Rand's heroines are fluorescents cool and bright and Elizabeth Taylor was an arc lamp that burns you if you touch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Where is Ba'al when you need him?Elizabeth Taylor's Jewish ConversionI did not know that she was a convert. Hollywood's Jews hide behind wasp names, if for no other reason than they fit the marquees better. (Not Jewish was Doris Day, Doris Mary Ann von Kappelhoff.) I grew up with Elizabeth Taylor, in the sense that news of her was current in the house when I was a child. I was a freshman in college for Virginia Wolf and it was shocking to consider what my professors' homes were like... then I met one of the shrews... But long after after Virginia Wolf, I was in a rare Dunkin Donuts in Southfield, Michigan. Southfield, for instance, placed a couple of overpasses across I-696 so that Jews can walk to temple. This Dunkin Donuts was actually kosher. It was also an intercity bus stop. Waiting for a bus back to Lansing, I overheard two women gosipping about Elizabeth Taylor as if they knew her from their own congregation. So, I just assumed she was really Jewish. I am not a movie person. I think of the actors, not the directors, and I don't keep them straight, because they come and go like hemlines and neckties. But for all of my ignorance, it is clear that Elizabeth Taylor had way too much presence for Lillian Rearden, or for any woman in any Ayn Rand story. If I may, allow me to suggest that Ayn Rand's heroines are fluorescents cool and bright and Elizabeth Taylor was an arc lamp that burns you if you touch it.In 1959, at age 27, Taylor converted from Christian Science to Judaism between her marriages to Todd and Fisher.[47] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Taylor was buried today. She was fifteen minutes late to her own funeral as per her instructions in her will. Now that is a class move. My respect for her just went up a lot on that revelation. I have never been a fan of hers. However, I heard Dick Cavett, who is a genius, on Imus' [another genius] excellent morning show today and he related the following:Dick Cavett on Imus on Elizabeth Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Taylor was buried today. She was fifteen minutes late to her own funeral as per her instructions in her will. Now that is a class move. My respect for her just went up a lot on that revelation. I have never been a fan of hers. However, I heard Dick Cavett, who is a genius, on Imus' [another genius] excellent morning show today and he related the following:Dick Cavett on Imus on Elizabeth TaylorYou are right about Dick Cavett. My fondest memories are SCTV ones where he hosted the unspeakable and the inedible, and poor Joe Flaherty tried to convince the audience that the upcoming Monster Chiller Horror Theatre movie would be terrifying because of his intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 The best Dick Cavett ever was an episode with Robin Williams. The two improvised a dialog doing their impressions of Truman Capote talking to William F. Buckley. Dead on, the funniest thing I have ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The best Dick Cavett ever was an episode with Robin Williams. The two improvised a dialog doing their impressions of Truman Capote talking to William F. Buckley. Dead on, the funniest thing I have ever heard.Did you ever see Buckley(Flaherty( duking it out with juia Child(Candy) on sctv/?Let alone mother teresa and Bobby Bittman head-to-head. Life seldom got better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The best Dick Cavett ever was an episode with Robin Williams. I haven't seen that one, sounds good, it's not on YouTube far as I can tell. Here's a good one though: The ending is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 The best Dick Cavett ever was an episode with Robin Williams. I haven't seen that one, sounds good, it's not on YouTube far as I can tell. Here's a good one though: The ending is the best.I recorded the episode onto cassette tape off the television speaker, must have been about 1981. Never came across the tape again. Have been checking the internet for it regularly, but no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It's a good thing that Phil is not involved in this thread because he would be in adhominemanaphylactic shock over this heavyweight intellectual argument.Try saying that new word three times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 It's a good thing that Phil is not involved in this thread because he would be in adhominemanaphylactic shock over this heavyweight intellectual argument.Try saying that new word three times.I hope you are posting drunk, because I would be sad to find out that someone as smart as you are would be petty enough to bring such crap here sober. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It's a good thing that Phil is not involved in this thread because he would be in adhominemanaphylactic shock over this heavyweight intellectual argument.Try saying that new word three times.I hope you are posting drunk, because I would be sad to find out that someone as smart as you are would be petty enough to bring such crap here sober.I don't drink and I love to play with words. So I plead guilty to one count of sobriety crap posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 Bueno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 Almodovar chimes in:Spanish: http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2011/03/24/cultura/1300965268.html?a=e81506259cc0e3c03017225a455c26fc&t=1300999871&numero=Translated into Engooglish: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmundo.es%2Felmundo%2F2011%2F03%2F24%2Fcultura%2F1300965268.html%3Fa%3De81506259cc0e3c03017225a455c26fc%26t%3D1300999871%26numero%3D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I can name her children, Liza Todd, Christopher and Michael Wilding Jr., Maria Burton.Her best film was Giant where I think she gave the best and most of herself, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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