Does consciousness affect matter?


jts

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Apparently, scientists can now on turn a rat's ability to make associations, or forget them, by giving them certain drugs.

This is the popular narcoculture's religious Crusade in pursuit of the Holy Grail of controlling human behavior with chemicals.

Greg

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This is a brilliant discussion. After I have a good sleep I'm going to re-read it with my neurons actually firing properly. ( just finished a 17hr shift).

Dayum! i am liking it here! Thanks Kyle.

Your input is appreciated as you add another shiny facet to the gem. :smile:

Greg

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Example. Scratch an itch. You brain has made your muscles move your hand. So the answer to the title question is yes indeed.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Ba'al Chatzaf wrote about Israel surviving a nuclear attack:

My answer: Recall the story of Sampson.

end quote

A first strike on Iran’s nuclear capabilities has been projected for years now. With an antagonistic American President will it happen without United State’s support? Would it be successful without an invasion into Iran, even if only of a limited scale? The number of Arab and Islamic countries that have threatened retaliation is significant. Simultaneous strikes on the surrounding countries’ military capabilities would be advisable. I remember our ally Turkey was blustering but that may have been for internal consumption.

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Ba'al Chatzaf wrote:

Example. Scratch an itch. You brain has made your muscles move your hand. So the answer to the title question is yes indeed.

end quote

The simple answer IS yes, but telekinesis has never been demonstrated. Every purported case of the mind moving matter was a hoax. The latest research and development of equipment using brain signals to move incapacitated “real” appendages or artificial limbs are interesting, and that approximates the “spooky” moving piece of furniture from fantasy movies.

There are cleverly constructed “mystery spots” where perception and sometimes scientific observation are fooled. Google “mystery spot.”

A professor of geology I took a class with in the 70’s investigated “The mystery spot: (of Santa Cruz?) Your perceptions go wacky, gravity-meters don’t behave correctly, etc. He slept there overnight in sleeping bags and he and his party all had disturbing dreams. He thought there was a large iron ore meteor below ground and I seem to remember some research into that and other mystery spots like the one in Russia. Iron ore deposits are supposed to be the reason for all anomalies which also affect the human mind.

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Ba'al Chatzaf wrote about Israel surviving a nuclear attack:

My answer: Recall the story of Sampson.

end quote

A first strike on Iran’s nuclear capabilities has been projected for years now. With an antagonistic American President will it happen without United State’s support? Would it be successful without an invasion into Iran, even if only of a limited scale? The number of Arab and Islamic countries that have threatened retaliation is significant. Simultaneous strikes on the surrounding countries’ military capabilities would be advisable. I remember our ally Turkey was blustering but that may have been for internal consumption.

Bombs away!

--Brant

it's the American way

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Brant wrote, tweeking the noses of Rand Paul and Francisco:

Bombs away! . . . . it's the American way

end quote

I understand the humor but we are better than that. One more time from “Just War Theory:”

"Last resort"

Force may be used only after all peaceful and viable alternatives have been seriously tried and exhausted or are clearly not practical. It may be clear that the other side is using negotiations as a delaying tactic and will not make meaningful concessions.

"Military necessity"

Just war conduct should be governed by the principle of minimum force. An attack or action must be intended to help in the military defeat of the enemy, it must be an attack on a military objective, and the harm caused to civilians or civilian property must be proportional and not excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. This principle is meant to limit excessive and unnecessary death and destruction.

end quotes

A rational assessment of the threat from Iran should be combined with the moral imperatives of something like “Just War Theory.” And damn it, I agree that we have been grievously wronged since The Iran Hostage Crisis and 911. We cannot let Iran develop nuclear weapons. They will destroy their “enemies” whoever they might be. It will be a sneak attack or Iran will hand off the nuclear weapons to terrorists. THEY HAVE SAID THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL DO WITH THEM.

Just after 911, in an interview with Prodos, Doctor Leonard Peikoff said:

The United States is a prostitute in terms of international relations. They submit to anything. This was true from Soviet Russia. It was true, now, from Communist China. And it was true all the way through the dealings of the Mideast. But that’s what we’re now talking about. So, there’s no -- anybody knows that our policy is just so shamefully written in blood, for decades -- our policy of appeasement.

end quote

Now, I think the good doctor was interviewed after just after 911 (I think 2001 though I could be wrong) Whatever Doctor Peikoff said about the Presidents and our foreign policy before President Obama is doubly so in 2014. So the dilemma is still there. Like Rand Paul and Francisco Ferrer, I do not crave or sanction war . . . unless it is justified.

Doctor Peikoff was justifiably mad because we were attacked by monsters. At the time I felt just like him and today I think the same though I am a bit more introspective and deliberate in my post 911 thinking. It is moral to strike before one more thing is done to us because the next time could be very different in degree. So, now that I think about it, "Bombs away!"

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Sorry, I am really off topic but I began to think of President George W. Bush’s “Shock and Awe!” Before we militarily destroy Iran it would be good to hear some old fashioned oratory like Churchill’s speeches said during WWII; something inspiring and idealistic. Get hot and emotional like blood and guts General Patton (or at least the George C. Scott version.) Get all patriotic Americans roused up.

Play the Iranian rulers’ words with a translator’s voice (Dinesh Desusa?)over their despicable comments - Not the comments their handlers give to the world press or at the UN but the unvarnished words and threats they use when they are speaking to their followers at home.

And don’t fall into the trap of listing the reasons for destroying Iran’s nuclear and military capabilities without stressing the clincher, that should have been used before we invaded Iraq: We don’t know everything but we know enough to say, “We cannot afford NOT to destroy them.” (thanks to Roger Bissell for that clear thinking.)

I saw the thread where someone on OL was questioning the morality of their job. Hell, I was in the artillery. You know there might be a greater chance of an innocent getting in the way if you lob Volkswagen sized shells at the enemy compared to shooting someone pointing a gun at you, and that possibility is greater with Cruz Missiles (joke spelling) or a tactical nuclear weapon. Yet that is the reality we face.

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  • 3 weeks later...

No, bouncing photons off electrons doesn't work, except in the most exceptional of circumstances.

Basically, to give you some idea, the expionent normally associated with the photon is the planck, at exp --32, while the elecrtron range is about --18 give or take at rest state.

That's fifteen zeros of difference...or a 'quadrillion' times!

Theoretically, by means of the Heisenberg (as understood by Gamow's 'quantum tunneling') the velocity of a particular photon can become nearly infinite. But that's only one photon per the gazillion that are emitted when electrons nearly collide.

The Josephson junction permits a singular stream of photons through an electron screen, but these have to be carried by electrons that couple at extremely high velocities. of course this stream has had enormous medical applications....

By the same token, per Schrodinger's 'i', some photons can even travel backwards in time --another stiory.

In any case, the notion that the brain can emit photons is nearly impossible, and not completely so because of Penrose's 'theory'. The reason, again is the reality of electron flow in the brain would easily stop any photon.

EM

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I am puzzled by this video starting at about 4 minutes. The cartoon professor seems to be saying consciousness affects matter. Is that true? I have difficulty believing that.

What is the method of observation? The video didn't say. Bouncing photons or other particles off electrons or however else you observe electrons would affect the electrons (I would expect). Did he really mean consciousness affects matter?

If consciousness affects matter, then maybe different observers will have a different effect with the same hardware. What would be the effect of a multitude of observers? What if the observer is a horse or a dog?

http://youtu.be/3_BzTMeV4HI

The "observer" is a physical system interacting with particles as they come through the slit. Shining a light on something is the same thing as "watching" it. Consciousness is a bogus issue in the case of the 2 slit experiment.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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As the brain 'runs' on elecrrons...

Eva,

Are elecrrons how crronometers work?

:smile:

Michael

Most modern chronometers are electrically operated.

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