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FuturistNow

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Hello everyone!

I usually post on ObjectivismOnline, but I heard about this website and wanted to check it all out. I was required to give my actual name here so I will not reveal my other alias.

I hope that doesn't bother anyone too much, but I am at the point where too many of my aliases are connected and I am uncomfortable with that. If any of the mods think that is important information (in the interest of honesty or something) I can send them the info in a private message.

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When I joined up, I did not understand that the LOGIN, your Avatar Name, and your real name (which can be hidden from all but the Owner) are three different things.

We have no "mods" here -no moderators managing their fiefdoms. We have the Owner, Michael Stuart Kelly. Take it or leave it. This is his board. He is fairly tolerant. If you want to participate productively in the exchanges, then you are welcomed to join in.

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I've always posted under my real name, but knowing what I now know I wouldn't. My "Internet" postings go back to 1988 or '89 when I uploaded on a dedicated line to the late Petr Beckmann's Fort Freedom. Subsequently most of FF's content was put on the real Internet by a fellow who lives in Australia. (It's hard to believe my friend died 20 years ago come August for it all seems like yesterday.)

Anyway, welcome to OL. I don't post on moderated forums like OO nor do I have much time to even read OO but someone here occasionally imports part of a discussion, usually complaining about being moderated.

--Brant

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FuturistNow wrote:

Well that makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why so many posts were off topic. Well thats cool.

end quote

Greetings Adam. Welcome. I have considered myself an Objectivist since the late sixties. It IS cool here at Objectivist Living.

I was told to never go back to OO by one of their moderators in a personal email. I was willing to donate to them and to share and post and I AM generous in a modest way but I was told to vamoose. I always wondered why their Owners did not step in because they had lost a substantial contributor.

Some at OO exhibit behavior and thinking usually reserved for a cult. They are so integrated that they can quote Ayn and then immediately tell you whether what you said is correct or wrong (according to the holy books and I can do that myself) but they cannot think for themselves.

Many of them are intolerant. They are not cuckoo like Scientologists but my wife read some Objectivism Online posts over my shoulder and she immediately said, These people are not right. You should fear for your safety. Crap! Do they know where we live?

They are not totally rational and I do not think they are integrated Objectivists. They are certainly several years of deprogramming away from true Objectivists like Barbara and Nathaniel Branden. If that last sentence resonates I doubly welcome you because it is true. If it repels you Check your premises!

Going "off topic" is refreshing to me but NOT so much with some other contributors or the owners. Michael will sometimes move posts to the place they were last discussed but that is infrequently done.

Peter

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FuturistNow,

Welcome to OL.

Off topic?

Heh.

There's a good reason. The focus here is to work through ideas, not preach them. In other words, Objectivism is a starting point (we all are interested in it to varying degrees), but it is not an end point.

Where your precious mind leads you is.

Ditto for all.

The principle is you can trust good intelligent people to do what's best for their lives, even think. :)

Michael

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Greetings Adam. Welcome. I have considered myself an Objectivist since the late sixties. It IS cool here at Objectivist Living.

Understood Peter.

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Peter:

Essentially, we need to strike.

I have never been so sure of a position since I closed the back of Atlas on the shore of the Delaware river some five (5) decades ago.

Ragnar is my preferred heroic person to follow.

As you reflect on the dialog of the issues confronting us today...can you possible assert that we should strike ...now and fully effect it?

A....

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Selene et al,

As the population continues to be "taught," indoctrinated, kept in ignorance, encouraged to accept the prevailing wisdom, not taught to think critically, kept in the dark, so that we end up with more than half the electorate believing that Obama is the man for the job, just needs more time for his policies to take effect, means well and is on their side, we are close to being doomed.

It is true that the antidote is known. A combination of Objectivism with all the light it radiates on so many fundamental philosophical and ethical issues, a sprinkling of rational economics care of Hazlitt, von Mises, Rothbard, Bastiat, Walter Williams. Thomas Sowell, George Reisman, a handful of historians and scientists and biographers. Come to think of it there is quite a great deal to read.

The only ones I know of who are doing it are those who join www.YALiberty.org and www.SFL.org whose numbers will swell among the young for generations to come until they predominate all over the world.

In the meantime we have to endure the collapse which may manifest itself worldwide at any moment.

Check out the article in the April issue of The Future of Freedom Foundation by Jacob Hornberger, www.fff.org in which he shows how Pinochet replaced Allende and proceeded to eradicate advocates of socialism and Marxism and Communism but left Chile in ruins and a police state with just enough gun control so only the government had weapons and the people were defenseless.

Here we have advocates of gun control arguing that no one needs a large capacity clip in order to hunt for deer.

Totalitarianism has been a nightmare for me all my life having grown up during the Second World War and learning about the horrors of Nazi Germany as a boy. We are getting closer and closer every day now. Frustrating knowing that the antidote is known but not to enough people yet.

What good would a strike be now?

gg

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FuturistNow:

Welcome aboard.

One piece of unsolicited advice: there have been not a small number of One Hit Wonders who have signed on around here lo the past couple of years, and then flamed out within a fortnight; accordingly, my advice is to pace yourself. As Aristotle once could have said, all things in moderation, including moderation.

Good advice even in the absence of a moderator.

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Adam X wrote:

Essentially, we need to strike.

end quote

From the J. Edgar Hoover Building:

Henry? Come look at this. Some anarchist named Adam is urging people to strike.

Wow. The machine came up with this on its first pass, Agent Starling. Keep it cranking.

He may be talking about some terrorist bombing. Should we put him on a watch list, Henry?

Not at this time, but lets dig into his past. Get me a report asap and I will send two B Team guys to talk to him. Who was he talking to?

A guy named Peter who was actually talking to a guy named FuturistNow who also lists his real name as Adam. That Adam seems like a law abiding citizen. Its kind of like Peter was talking to the guy next to him on a bar stool and the guy on the other side starts responding, you talkin to me?

Is this Peter guy clean?

Yeah, Henry. Hes one of us.

Whoa! Whos this guy Galts Gulch who just said, Its frustrating knowing that the antidote is known but not to enough people yet. Is he talking conspiracy?

Dont think so. GG seems like a big L Libertarian and they do not initiate violence.

OK. Keep up the good work. Agent Starling? Want to go to dinner after our shift?

Sorry Henry. Peter is an old friend from college and I am seeing him.

Peter

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Adam Selene wrote:

As you reflect on the dialog of the issues confronting us today...can you possible assert that we should strike ...now and fully effect it?

end quote

In spite of Galt Gulchs warning about the end times I dont think we are quite there yet. Mass extinction indeed! Galt and you should watch Stuart Varney on Fox Business Channel. He truly gives you some ammunition to hasten your clandestine trip to Rands Atlantis, but I dont see Stuart vanishing any time soon.

For instance: the stock market is booming. Bullish markets can indicate coming prosperity but they could also herald higher prices and inflation. If you own stock in Pet Milk Products do you rejoice when the price of milk goes through the roof? Probably not. Varney thinks the Fed is buying bonds and thereby keeping bond interest rates down which drives cash to the stock market creating greater demand. Two years ago Rush Limbaugh was convinced the Fed was also dabbling in the market through proxies and driving the Dow higher.

Gold is going down. Is it because there is less risk that our economy will tank? Probably not. Its because people bought gold in excess in 2009 onwards until today. And now the demand is less than warranted.

I suggest stocking up on the essentials, and as you are doing, start talking with good people local to you about protecting each other. Delmarva has a well stocked militia.

As Waynes World said, There is no magic carpet to take the worthy

to some mythical place. Do you really want to take orders from some tyrannical Midas Mulligan?

Peter

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Gulch8,

I can’t join in your good wishes to Young American’s for Liberty because they promote unrestricted immigration. Most recently they endorsed Rand Paul’s idea of immigration reform which is the beginning of a mass amnesty à la Reagan.

(Note: the link in Gulch8’s post to “Ski for Light” was added by the OL advertising system.)

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Let me be clear...

To Strike:

1) one merely decides to withhold her/his/their/transgender, etc. individual rational minds that supports the status quo;

2) each individual that commits to the Strike has to assess their risks and rewards in terms of:

a) their individual exposure;

b) their family exposure; and

c) other ancillary issues.

A...

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Gulch8,

I can’t join in your good wishes to Young American’s for Liberty because they promote unrestricted immigration. Most recently they endorsed Rand Paul’s idea of immigration reform which is the beginning of a mass amnesty à la Reagan.

Give it up. Like you, I used to be a hardliner on the immigration question. But the fix is in. No stopping it now. The folks who have vested interests in renting this country out piece by piece hold the levers of power. We have:

1) Capitalists who will do anything, including lobbying, to ensure they always have a source of cheap labor (but hey, that means lower prices for us consumers of junk, right?)

2) The Democratic Party which is now the patchwork coalition of every """oppressed""" group, (i.e., those who vote Democrat)

3) The preponderance of Jewish influence in the media and Hollywood. Their (somewhat) understandable paranoia about being a persecuted minority means they will always agitate and propagandize for a diverse society where they don't feel so singled out as the Other.

Basically, start getting used to the New World Order. Adapt or Die.

Oh, and bye bye Miss American Pie

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Gulch8,

I can’t join in your good wishes to Young American’s for Liberty because they promote unrestricted immigration. Most recently they endorsed Rand Paul’s idea of immigration reform which is the beginning of a mass amnesty à la Reagan.

Give it up. Like you, I used to be a hardliner on the immigration question. But the fix is in. No stopping it now. The folks who have vested interests in renting this country out piece by piece hold the levers of power. We have:

1) Capitalists who will do anything, including lobbying, to ensure they always have a source of cheap labor (but hey, that means lower prices for us consumers of junk, right?)

2) The Democratic Party which is now the patchwork coalition of every """oppressed""" group, (i.e., those who vote Democrat)

3) The preponderance of Jewish influence in the media and Hollywood. Their (somewhat) understandable paranoia about being a persecuted minority means they will always agitate and propagandize for a diverse society where they don't feel so singled out as the Other.

Basically, start getting used to the New World Order. Adapt or Die.

Oh, and bye bye Miss American Pie

Objectivist Dying?

--Brant

welcome to OD

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Let me be clear...

To Strike:

1) one merely decides to withhold her/his/their/transgender, etc. individual rational minds that supports the status quo;

2) each individual that commits to the Strike has to assess their risks and rewards in terms of:

a) their individual exposure;

b) their family exposure; and

c) other ancillary issues.

A...

"Society, you're cut off."

Like the frog being gradually boiled to death, I think the social correction needed will have to be a reaction to an abrupt change in living conditions.

Not all production need be stopped; anything that promotes conscious living (usually in the form of art?) is of more value now than ever.

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The preponderance of Jewish influence in the media and Hollywood. Their (somewhat) understandable paranoia about being a persecuted minority means they will always agitate and propagandize for a diverse society where they don't feel so singled out as the Other.

Yeah,

Damn those Jews like Rupert Murdoch, Ted Turner, James Cameron and so on.

:smile:

Gimme a break. True, some Jews have made out well in the entertainment industry. How about a different idea than a conspiracy theory to explain it, something far out and esoteric--like fostering entertainment skills is a strong part of the Jewish culture?

After all, they co-authored the best-selling book in all of human history, The Bible. And it's mostly a collection of stories.

Jewish people are very good at entertainment and they like to make money. How's that for a weird idea to explain success?

Here's a pretty objective article that looks at facts (all facts and in context), not the propaganda you get peppered all over:

Do Jews Really Control the Media? - Only the fun parts

By Brian Palmer

Oct. 5, 2010

Slate

In terms of covert influence in Hollywood, Scientology is a far better candidate than some kind of organized clandestine Jewish movement.

Michael

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And chicken-egg-like, Jews cultivated their entertainment skills because for centuries they were nearly everywhere. nearly always forbidden to engage in traditional, prestigious and/or lucrative activities.

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Carol,

There's probably something to that, but I wouldn't give it too much importance.

Jewish people are great at entertaining themselves and that part doesn't fit.

Here's a better reason, in my opinion. Jewish stories and storytelling bind the culture together and have done so across centuries and many different environments. That heritage is more likely a stronger influence on entertainment skills than a cunning tactic to fool exterminators.

Michael

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I find it interesting that out of the 3 macro factors I listed as influences on the immigration issue, the only one which drew comment was (3). I would have thought impugning the capitalistic drive for profits would have caused more of a stir on a site like this.

Anyway.

I'm disappointed by your invocation of the hoary "conspiracy" canard. I suggested no such thing. If you unpack my assertion you will see it consisted of two ideas:

1) The claim that Jews make up a highly disproportionate number of positions in Hollywood and the news media, relative to their percentage in the general population.

2) The claim that they share a common motivation for the advocacy of policies and philosophies which increase the diversity of the society they inhabit.

Claim (1) is a statement of fact, but I will not be interested in debating it. I know anyone wishing to contest it is not interested in reality, but rather their commitment to ideology.

Claim (2) is debatable, and I think it fruitful to do just that.

("oh god no" -- someone right now)

What may be the patina of "conspiracy" in my allegation is simply an identification of the personal and individual self-interest of a group of people happening to align in concert.

Unlike Objectivists, I don't see the history of the world as one where the power of Ideas is the prime mover. I'm more of a cynic, and view human nature as one of raw pragmatic self-interest, in which Narratives ("Ideas"), are self-serving rationalizations that either hide the truth from oneself, or serve as squid-ink to keep other people from seeing the truth, (a.k.a. "covering one's ass")

The nice thing about Objectivist histioriography is that it turns history into an enjoyable and dramatic opera. Like Greek myth, we watch the Gods (Ideas) battle to and fro, with the Good Guys eventually coming out on top. Although the truth is often much more prosaic, I can appreciate this approach.

However, the danger of this approach is the Bad Guys on the losing side of history are cast as Evil Evaders and consigned to Hell, when in fact their true motiations may be more sympathetic and understandable.

To the issue at hand: my macro-factors (1) and (2) are fairly easy to comprehend: they relate to immediate self-interest regarding either money or power. (3) is a bit more subtle.

My contention is that Jews, being an historically persecuted group who had no homeland for quite some time, always find themselves as aliens in whichever country they emmigrate to. Because of this, they have psychological reasons for having some measure of antipathy towards the homogeneity and customs of their host countries. Putting myself in their shoes, I would analogize thusly: imagine you found yourself at a large party full of people you don't know. They all come from a different social strata than you, and seem to be more wealthy and sophisticated as well. You immediately feel a bit awkward. To make matters worse, you decide to use the bathroom, and upon looking in the mirror, discover your face has been covered with pink polkadots. Now your self-consciousness is off the charts. Would you not feel some relief if by a stroke of luck, the party was infused with people who had zebra-stripes on their faces? Takes some of the pressure off, no? The motivation is completely understandable and all too human. No need to hypothesize about "nefarious Jews."


(This also explains, I think, why you will often find jewish pundits at the forefront of the intellectual normalization of questionable things like homosexuality, pedophilia, transgenderism, etc. All of the aforementioned are examples of "boundary bending", i.e., they disintegrate traditional lines and seperations between things. I believe the opposition's affirmation of such boundaries, i.e., what is "in" and what is "out", feels threatening to Jews on a very fundamental level, even if they themselves are not homosexual, transgender, etc. But I digress)

Given their history, anyone with a heart is inclined to cut them some slack. On the other hand, the fact that they have been so successful in this country leads me to view their hand in the destruction of immigration boundaries and national pride among the Gentile heartland with a somewhat jaundiced eye. One would have expected perhaps a more respectful attitude towards the country that has afforded them such opportunites. Tsk tsk. Such ingratitude. Such chutzpah.

This article is unintentionally funny. It purports to debunk the myth that Jews "control the media", but it really amounts to saying, "Yeah, sure, Hollywood is up to its eyeballs in Jews, and ditto for the print media, but look, there are a few CEO's and editors who are not Jews". Pretty weak sauce, if you ask me. In my view, guys like Ted Turner and Murdoch shouldn't even be characterized ethnically. What they are is part of the global elite who have zero sense of fellow-feeling or noblesse oblige to the country. I wouldn't even think of George Soros as a Jew. He is someone who has Fuck You money and doesn't have a whit of honor towards the country of his own origin!

I have to admit to a strange fascination with such people however. The strain of Objectivism that exists in me, with my adolescent love of Atlas Shrugged, leads me to a grudging respect towards those who truly "straddle the world", and have the ability to "go on strike", as it were, while the rest of the world burns. Alas, I am just an Average Joe, and have to endure the effects of such globalists' policies. So I turn back to what is in my interest. To anyone reading who has a sense of American cultural pride, this tension between your sentiments and the Objectivist emphasis on radical individualism should be apparent.

I'm not here to begrudge Jewish success. They are talented and intelligent. I raise the issue because "with great power comes great responsibility." It has been noted in the Oist and Libertarian and Conservative community that the battle has been lost in the realm of politics. That the REAL power in shaping this country comes from the media in all it's forms. We have to ask ourselves whether the folks who shape the narratives and images in the public consciousness have the country's best interests at heart.

As I said earlier, I used to be a hardliner about immigration. But with the 3 factors I listed arrayed before us, I now believe it to be a lost cause. I'm not really interested in debating it. To the folks who still fight the fight, keep that candle in your hearts and save it for a smaller scale. I forsee a future of more isolated communities, and groups like Objectivists and others can make a difference on the ground in preserving an American ethos. And should the day come when a new "Galt's Gulch" arises, I would respectfully suggest that the time has come for any Jews involved to engage in some hard introspection.

When a good-hearted Gentile simply wishes to preserve the customs and folkways of what was a once great culture, try and control your impulse to run circles around his goyische kopf with your superior verbal intelligence and legalisms. He's not out to hurt you.

This doesn't apply to you, Bob. I consider you one of the "good ones" :)

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Once I was offered to be made an honorary Jew. I was told the rabbi needed practice.

--Brant

ran out the door and haven't been back

The honour is easier to attain for women.

All mothers are Jewish mothers, especially in the Maritimes.

Come to think of it, the initiation ceremony does kind of hurt.

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Objectivist Dying?

--Brant

welcome to OD

Brant, I'd be more inclined to take your point if I saw any indication -- any at all -- that there was a widespread appreciation for certain intangibles which characterized the greatness of American culture around say, the late 60's. I'm more inclined to view the populace as happily anesthesized with their soma and bread and circuses.

But, good luck anyway.

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