We're All Bozos on this Bus

[syrakusos]

In another thread entirely, Daunce Lynam astutely identified one similarity shared by three frequent posters.

jts, I seldom watch your videos, unless they are ... You are not that bad of a propagandist. I've seen worse. Well, I'm sure I've seen somebody worse somewhere. By bad propagandist I mean BAD AT PROPAGANDA. The stuff you propagandize is not uniformly bad, technically speaking.

Thus in the aforementioned perverse way I have to hand it to you. Like Ed Hudgins and Gulch, you keep plugging.

She then backpedaled in a subsequent post, apologizing to Ed Hudgins and Gulch8, not intending that they are as inept as jts. However, I must demur. They are. We all are. One way or another, we all obsess over issues peculiar to our own worldviews. Normally an eclectic writer with good insight and interesting perspectives, Ed Hudgins kept grinding Mitt Romney's ax, touting Paul Ryan, and pulling for the GOP. Gulch8 turned every discussion into an opportunity to plump for Ron Paul. I wonder what his new jag will be. When Robert Ba'al Kolker goes ballistic about being a Jew, I think of the "professional Irish" down at St. Malachi's who used to give to the IRA. I am pretentious, officious, and fatuous; I could be a pseudo-intellectual if my Asperger's did not get in the way. But even the nicest of us, say Robert Campbell and Stephen Boydstun, are off in the clouds, like (well, heck) like Socrates in "The Clouds." Not one of us here is beyond ridicule, however mild.

We are also each of us in our own ways intelligent, loyal, and highly principled. We are complicated. But, then, who is not? On my blog I just reviewed Nerds by David Anderegg. What makes someone a nerd versus being a geek? To Anderegg, an academic psychologist, the diagnosis of such syndromes is always a matter of degrees, not of kind.

... and being kind is always important... which Carol is, and which I am not.

[dldelancey]

Assuming that you really are an Aspie, do you find that Asperger's is a hindrance to your kindness as well as to your pseudo-intellectuality?

[GALTGULCH8]

I guess that since I am mentioned at the beginning of this thread I am entitled to chime in.

On one level I am just a kid who grew up in Brooklyn, attended public school, a technical high school, an engineering college, a city college, a medical school, a rotating internship, psychiatric residency and have been immersed in earning a living practicing psychiatry for forty years or so. Along the way I have read some books outside my field all the while trying to make sense of the world and the direction in which it is heading. I attended a Hebrew school and participated in a bar mitzvah at thirteen. But I had been reading books on astronomy and paleontology and wondered whether what I was being taught was true or not all along and still do. My mother told me she wouldn't be around forever and that i had better learn a trade so I gave that some thought.

What passed for received wisdom turned out to be questionable in the realms of religion, history, economics, psychiatry, philosophy and political science among other things. Science evidently approaches the idea of finding the truth best and still does despite controversies over the years.

You bet I am concerned about the state of society and its direction here and around the world. I may not be around much longer but with a son, a daughter in law and a grandson who is innocent, healthy, happy, inquisitive, intelligent, enjoys everything, loves to play and be mischievous, deserves to live in a far more benevolent and free society than is going to be his lot. So I still make people aware of Atlas Shrugged virtually every day and did today already. I know Ayn Rand wasn't right about everything, her smoking killed her and she might have lived longer if only she had known better. She thought any politician who was not pro choice on abortion should not be elected. That was a deal breaker for her and I ended up voting for Gary Johnson instead of Ron Paul. I do support the pro freedom movement, IHS, Reason, FFF, FEE, SFL, YAL, the LP and pass the torch.

At times I do get hopeful that one of these entities will take off exponentially and save the world. I would rather be enthusiastic than cynical and resigned to our fate.

I see the medical society and profession taken over by the leftists, statists, socialists and interventionists who press on tenaciously. My hard working colleagues are drawn to support rather than fight the system out of ignorance and their desire and commitment to do the right thing. They don't have time to read or find out who is telling the truth or the lies "until I retire" one said today.

So it is frustrating to know the answers are known but not yet by enough people.

So I admit that I am guilty of keeping on plugging and just hope that in this I am not alone.

gulch

[caroljane]

In another thread entirely, Daunce Lynam astutely identified one similarity shared by three frequent posters.

jts, I seldom watch your videos, unless they are ... You are not that bad of a propagandist. I've seen worse. Well, I'm sure I've seen somebody worse somewhere. By bad propagandist I mean BAD AT PROPAGANDA. The stuff you propagandize is not uniformly bad, technically speaking.

Thus in the aforementioned perverse way I have to hand it to you. Like Ed Hudgins and Gulch, you keep plugging.

She then backpedaled in a subsequent post, apologizing to Ed Hudgins and Gulch8, not intending that they are as inept as jts. However, I must demur. They are. We all are. One way or another, we all obsess over issues peculiar to our own worldviews. Normally an eclectic writer with good insight and interesting perspectives, Ed Hudgins kept grinding Mitt Romney's ax, touting Paul Ryan, and pulling for the GOP. Gulch8 turned every discussion into an opportunity to plump for Ron Paul. I wonder what his new jag will be. When Robert Ba'al Kolker goes ballistic about being a Jew, I think of the "professional Irish" down at St. Malachi's who used to give to the IRA. I am pretentious, officious, and fatuous; I could be a pseudo-intellectual if my Asperger's did not get in the way. But even the nicest of us, say Robert Campbell and Stephen Boydstun, are off in the clouds, like (well, heck) like Socrates in "The Clouds." Not one of us here is beyond ridicule, however mild.

We are also each of us in our own ways intelligent, loyal, and highly principled. We are complicated. But, then, who is not? On my blog I just reviewed Nerds by David Anderegg. What makes someone a nerd versus being a geek? To Anderegg, an academic psychologist, the diagnosis of such syndromes is always a matter of degrees, not of kind.

... and being kind is always important... which Carol is, and which I am not.

Hey, I bin crool! And I kin be crool again!

I could not leave Ed and G8 in the company of jts. I admire physicians in general, and Ed...look at those adorable faces, i just know he is a great dad.

Of jts I know nothing except what he posts and therefore have no reason go give him any quarter.

Ave atque vale friend, as we meet on the field where all is fair.

[caroljane]

Gulch,

Thank you for your post. Before I read it I had mentioned that I admired physicians in general, which I do. I admire psychiatrists in particular. My mother was a paranoid schizophrenic, and psychiatrists helped not just to save her life, but to save her life as her self , and thus to give my father and me our lives.I also think I know a bit of what psychiatrists pay, for doing their job, the payment not in money and cannot be recouped.

I do not agree with your politics, obviously, and if you ever read any of my posts you must wonder why Michael puts up with me. But the great thing about OL is its adventitiousness. A socialist gets to say to a libertarian , thank you.

Carol bat Ruby

Next up:

"I Kissed an Objectivist..and I liked it!" the sequel

..new revelations from Kat, .....and a what a socialist never wanted you to know!!!"

[BaalChatzaf]

Assuming that you really are an Aspie, do you find that Asperger's is a hindrance to your kindness as well as to your pseudo-intellectuality?

If I may chime in here. I have always been an Aspie and I started off kind. That is the result of a middle class American Jewish upbringing. I had to teach myself to be less kind as I caught on to the way the world worked economically and politically.

I am kind to vulnerable young children, for it is a sin to hurt them for no good reason. I have learned to give adults less slack. The urge to kindness and compassion is the trap that the politicians use to snare us. Beware. And be less kind.

Being kind and being an Aspie are orthogonal.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[caroljane]

C'mon Baal, you know you really love us all, deep down.

[syrakusos]

Assuming that you really are an Aspie, do you find that Asperger's is a hindrance to your kindness as well as to your pseudo-intellectuality?

Honestly, I believe that Asperger's Syndrome is pseudo-science, just quakery dressed up in the language of science. Hans Asperger was a nazi. After the Anschluss he moved to Germany. I just used a convenient short-hand to make a point. All I meant was that I get caught up in intellectuality that prevents really meeting the mind of the writer. It is a common problem online. Also, it is too easy for me to reply with ready-made comments, rather than considering deeply what is offered. That is being a pseudo-intellectual and I am in good company.

[9thdoctor]

She then backpedaled in a subsequent post, apologizing to Ed Hudgins and Gulch8, not intending that they are as inept as jts. However, I must demur. They are. We all are.

Assuming that by "we" you mean anyone who contributes to OL ("this bus"?): speak for yourself, clown.

[caroljane]

The Clown Bus is already chartered sir, and your seat has your name on it. I was pleased to see that you are beside me on our next trip, as I have heard that you are a gentleman.

[william.scherk]

I am pretentious, officious, and fatuous; I could be a pseudo-intellectual if my Asperger's did not get in the way.

[ ... ]

[T]he diagnosis of such syndromes is always a matter of degrees, not of kind.

You will be aware the the newest Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-V) will no longer list Aspergers' Syndrome -- instead subsuming it under the rubric Autism Spectrum Disorder (see the Guardian story here).

I wonder if you were being light-hearted and lightly-edited in your note above. Is it true or false that you yourself received a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome?

Honestly, I believe that Asperger's Syndrome is pseudo-science, just quakery dressed up in the language of science.

No one can take away your beliefs, Michael, not without a struggle, I imagine.

In this instance ... is your belief an invitation to discussion or a barred door?

-- the brief Wikipedia entry on Asperger did not so strongly suggest Asperger was a bad person, noting that he worked as a medical officer during the war (in Croatia). I found this quote kind of telling ...

We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfill their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.

Edited December 2, 2012 by william.scherk

[BaalChatzaf]

I wonder if you were being light-hearted and lightly-edited in your note above. Is it true or false that you yourself received a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome?

It is as true as Sunrise. Unfortunately we Aspies have just been demoted to Autistics, or Auties as we former Aspies like to say.

Herr Doktor Aspberger did for us was to give us a name for our woe.

I used to say: Well, no wonder I have been taunted, insulted, mocked, rejected and even beaten up by bullies. It is because I have Aspberger's Syndrome. Now the name of my pain has been taken by the professional headshrinkers. Oh well, I suppose being put in the same slot as Temple Grandin can't be all bad.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[caroljane]

I wonder if you were being light-hearted and lightly-edited in your note above. Is it true or false that you yourself received a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome?

It is as true as Sunrise. Unfortunately we Aspies have just been demoted to Autistics, or Auties as we former Aspies like to say.

Herr Doktor Aspberger did for us was to give us a name for our woe.

I used to say: Well, no wonder I have been taunted, insulted, mocked, rejected and even beaten up by bullies. It is because I have Aspberger's Syndrome. Now the name of my pain has been taken by the professional headshrinkers. Oh well, I suppose being put in the same slot as Temple Grandin can't be all bad.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I wonder if you were being light-hearted and lightly-edited in your note above. Is it true or false that you yourself received a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome?

I used to say: Well, no wonder I have been taunted, insulted, mocked, rejected and even beaten up by bullies. It is because I have Aspberger's Syndrome.

Ba'al Chatzaf

No, no, you were mocked and taunted and beaten up because we thought you were an Objectivist.

A. Bully

[dldelancey]

Assuming that you really are an Aspie, do you find that Asperger's is a hindrance to your kindness as well as to your pseudo-intellectuality?

Honestly, I believe that Asperger's Syndrome is pseudo-science, just quakery dressed up in the language of science. Hans Asperger was a nazi. After the Anschluss he moved to Germany. I just used a convenient short-hand to make a point. All I meant was that I get caught up in intellectuality that prevents really meeting the mind of the writer. It is a common problem online. Also, it is too easy for me to reply with ready-made comments, rather than considering deeply what is offered. That is being a pseudo-intellectual and I am in good company.

Then you will be relieved to know that it is being removed from the DSM-V. I know a good few people who are not so relieved, and one 18-year-old who is distraught because just as she has learned to embrace her identity, it is being striken from her.

[jts]

The DSM is mostly a work of fiction. Diseases should be discovered, not invented. But the more diseases they invent, the more money they can make.

Here is how it works. A kid is normal and healthy and maybe more active than average. He is diagnosed with one of those imaginary diseases in the DSM. He is required to take a psychiatric drug. If his parents refuse to allow him to take the drug, the kid is taken from the parents on the ground of child abuse. The drug does brain damage. Then the reasoning is: "See? He has brain damage; he needs the drug."

Great way to make money. Crookeder than a dog's hind leg and lower than a snake's belly. You can't even call the law on them. The law is on their side.

[caroljane]

The DSM is mostly a work of fiction. Diseases should be discovered, not invented. But the more diseases they invent, the more money they can make.

Here is how it works. A kid is normal and healthy and maybe more active than average. He is diagnosed with one of those imaginary diseases in the DSM. He is required to taNke a psychiatric drug.

Only through error. These errors constitute the entire knowledge of stupid, ignorant,dangerous whackjobs like you. Usually he is suspected of a real disorder by laypeople or overanxious parents. The child is assessed by a professional. He is correctly diagnosed as normal and healthy by a qualified professional.

This happened to my firstborn. His JK teacher thought he was overactive and suggested we get him assessed, so we did. After the assessment, the shrink told us she knew before the tests that the kid was normal.

Before the tests, she asked him to wait alone on a couch while she spoke to us for ten minutes. He fidgeted, wandered around, once came into the office, when the doctor asked what he wanted replied, "I want Mom and Dad." On request he went back and sat on the couch.

A real hyperactive, she said, would have been bouncing off the walls.

[PDS]

She then backpedaled in a subsequent post, apologizing to Ed Hudgins and Gulch8, not intending that they are as inept as jts. However, I must demur. They are. We all are.

Assuming that by "we" you mean anyone who contributes to OL ("this bus"?): speak for yourself, clown.

Actually, I too was offended that I wasn't specifically insulted.

[caroljane]

She then backpedaled in a subsequent post, apologizing to Ed Hudgins and Gulch8, not intending that they are as inept as jts. However, I must demur. They are. We all are.

Assuming that by "we" you mean anyone who contributes to OL ("this bus"?): speak for yourself, clown.

Actually, I too was offended that I wasn't specifically insulted.

Oh boo-hoo poor you. Quit whining and sulking, I'll get to you when I have time. Other people need insults more than you do, you know, Mr Selfish.

[caroljane]

Anybody else who wants to be insulted, just take a number and wait your turn. If you want to be spanked or anything you'll have to wait till Adam gets back, I am not taking over his territory.

[jts]

Can psychiatrists distinguish between sanity and madness? This video describes an experiment to test that.

3:37

The doctors were qualified professionals. (Not qualified by free market competition but by government.) Most people seem to have more faith in qualified professionals than a saint has in God.

There are many hours of video documentation debunking psychiatry without reference to scientology. But most people will dismiss all that on the ground that it is contrary to the status quo.

I selected this video because it is short and because it describes an experiment.

[caroljane]

"Can psychiatrists distinguish between sanity and madness?"

They can distinguish better than their patients can, expecially the conspiracy theorists amongst them.

[caroljane]

There are many hours of video documentation debunking psychiatry without reference to scienstology.

There are many hours, nay centuries of video debunking everything on earth. I do not watch any of them.

[jts]

"Can psychiatrists distinguish between sanity and madness?"

They can distinguish better than their patients can, expecially the conspiracy theorists amongst them.

Was that statement put to a test? Here is a passage from wiki's article on Rosenhan experiment.

Despite constantly and openly taking extensive notes on the behavior of the staff and other patients, none of the pseudopatients were identified as impostors by the hospital staff, although many of the other psychiatric patients seemed to be able to correctly identify them as impostors. In the first three hospitalizations, 35 of the total of 118 patients expressed a suspicion that the pseudopatients were sane, with some suggesting that the patients were researchers or journalists investigating the hospital.

[caroljane]

I've had about enough of this.

Jts, if I met you I would probably like you. You are a type I like, the Canadian Old Misery, my grandfather was one.He was great company. When I insult you I know it does not bother you one bit.

. But in my latest insult I said you were dangerous and you are, in that your deliberate ignorance could cause harm.

My mother was a paranoid schizophrenic as I have mentioned elsewhere. I did not inherit her condition, but I have a very small narrow middle,on that spectrum which I must live if I am to live. I have experienced one pschotic episode (No violence , do not panic anybody ).It was 15 years ago and very interesting but once was enough. The dominant delusion was about death but I never considered causing any myself.

I say this to you publicly jts, I repeat you are a stupid ignorant whackjob, and not to my friends privately as I would prefer, because I want you to listen for once.

LISTEN. My mother had her life, I had my life, because of psychiatry and pharmacology.

And make a video of it.

[jts]

I say this to you publicly jts, I repeat you are a stupid ignorant whackjob, and not to my friends privately as I would prefer, because I want you to listen for once.

LISTEN. My mother had her life, I had my life, because of psychiatry and pharmacology.

That, at best, is only anecdotal evidence. If I gave anecdotal evidence in favor of something I believe (for example that tumors can autolyze), people would call me nasty adjectives. It's not very good even as anecdotal evidence in the absence of detailed information.

If you want to talk anecdotal, there are plenty of videos of cases where psychiatry did extreme harm. If you don't like videos, even tho they provide more detailed information, try this:

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

I have difficulty believing that poison can improve health, of body or of mind, so of course I am skeptical of any story about a poison improving health. If someone took a poison and then got better, more likely they got better in spite of the poison, not because of it. Actually with modern psychiatry, they are not supposed to get better; getting better is missing the whole point.

There are plenty of videos where qualified professionals admit that psychiatry is not based on science. There is a special word for doctors whose doctoring is not based on science: quack.

To say something positive, I know cases where someone had a psychiatric condition and recovered after an improvement in diet or after fasting. But those are anecdotal and they are not peer reviewed and nobody would take them seriously.