Don Atreides


DonAtreides

Recommended Posts

Hello. My name is Don Atreides as you may have guessed. Here's a little about me as it pertains to the topic of Objectivism:

I first saw then read The Fountainhead back in high school (many years ago). Shortly thereafter I read Atlas Shrugged and during my military years I read about Objectivism in general. Then I took a sort of philosophical hiatus as I worked on my career (Computer Engineering). Now I'm picking up where I left off except that I have a lot more experience with which to work.

I don't know if I could consider myself an Objectivist or not - probably. I do believe in Objective Reality. I do believe in Reason as the sole means for acquiring knowledge. I do believe in the virtue of selfishness. Politically, I'm not certain that Capitalism as it's practiced is the necessary outcome of the first 3 tenets, but if not, it's probably something close to it. Regarding Aesthetics, I've never really considered it.

On the question of free will, I'm a Determinist. The universe is a physical place made of physical stuff subject to cause and effect. Some people plea to anything "Quantum" as an "out" so they can believe in free will. Even if true randomness could occur at the quantum level it does not follow that free will is the result of that exception to cause and effect. That said, even simple things have so many moving parts that we might as well act as though we have free will because it's the only practical way to move forward.

I value intellectual integrity above all. I abhor pseudo-intellectuals and pretentiousness. I can't stomach laziness of mind. If your goal is to sound intellectual to impress others or bolster your ego, we will not get along.

I am a very smart person, but being smart is no guarantee of being right. My purpose for joining this forum was to help refine my philosophy - to strengthen my positions or abandon and replace them as appropriate. I'm hoping that Objectivists will be well-suited to such a task.

I would be lying if I said that I had an inclination towards making friends here, but I would be satisfied to find people here worthy of respect. Here's to that endeavor.

-Don Atreides

p.s. Despite my somewhat abrasive exterior I actually do have a sense of humor, if my avatar is any indicator. :smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Hi, Don. Since you're a determinist how do you fit a need for a philosophy into that? Philosophy, of course, is about humans making choices and that's in turn about free will. And doesn't determinism necessarily make one totally accepting of the world as it is? As with Christianity not being compatible with Objectivism, how is determinism? I don't know.

--Brant

determined to de-determine the afflicted and de-poor the poor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you factor in quantum theory to your understanding of the physical cosmos? The laws of quantum physics are not deterministic yet the predict outcomes better than any other theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I value intellectual integrity above all. I abhor pseudo-intellectuals and pretentiousness. I can't stomach laziness of mind. If your goal is to sound intellectual to impress others or bolster your ego, we will not get along.

hmm ok no pretentions, whats up dude

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Atreides your real name? Sounds like a reference to Dune to me. And 'Don' in front of it is like Don Juan or Don Giovanni.

If it's made up it's a clever online handle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Atreides your real name? Sounds like a reference to Dune to me. And 'Don' in front of it is like Don Juan or Don Giovanni.

If it's made up it's a clever online handle.

Atreus

King of Mycenae, the son of Pelops. The father of Agamemnon and Menelaüs

The descendants of Atreus are the Atreides

Its from the Odyssey

Ba'al Chatzaf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Atreides your real name? Sounds like a reference to Dune to me. And 'Don' in front of it is like Don Juan or Don Giovanni.

If it's made up it's a clever online handle.

Is Ninth your real name? I mean Romans numbered their boys, Quintilius, Sextus, Septimus, Octavian,... At least your parents did not name you Doctor Doctor, so that on completing a Ph.D. you would be Doctor Doctor Doctor. That would be absurd, a real heller of a problem.

Kolker, you impress me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome Don. Don from the House Atreides wrote:

On the question of free will, I'm a Determinist. The universe is a physical place made of physical stuff subject to cause and effect.

end quote

Determinism is irrelevant. If you think that IF you stepped into a time machine, and went back into time to when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, and then you stepped on a butterfly and then you shot back into the future, the future would then be changed, I sort of disagree. (Ray Bradbury used this premise in a short story device.)

At this point in our understanding of *causality,* randomness and choice are all determining factors. How can we KNOW otherwise? There are such preponderances of natural forces shaping the future that *prediction* is necessary for sanity but we mortals will always be fallible. So is *free will* an illusion? Consider us determined in some grand philosophical sense but then return to the reality as it is. Dont think about why you did this, or why you said that. WHO MADE ME SAY THAT? Therein lies the insanity of Why, Zeus, why?!?!

I hope the House Atreides doesnt stop the spice trade. Or overly tax it. Determinists will need a boost to keep their sanity.

Don, what are you looking at? What determining force is making you imagine?

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Atreides your real name? Sounds like a reference to Dune to me. And 'Don' in front of it is like Don Juan or Don Giovanni.

If it's made up it's a clever online handle.

Is Ninth your real name? I mean Romans numbered their boys, Quintilius, Sextus, Septimus, Octavian,... At least your parents did not name you Doctor Doctor, so that on completing a Ph.D. you would be Doctor Doctor Doctor. That would be absurd, a real heller of a problem.

Kolker, you impress me!

I am impressed too.

Carol

Scared of heights

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kolker, you impress me!

Don't be too impressed. I have a head full of shit, bits and odds and ends. If I shake my head it sounds like a can half filled with nuts and bolts.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, Don. Since you're a determinist how do you fit a need for a philosophy into that? Philosophy, of course, is about humans making choices and that's in turn about free will. And doesn't determinism necessarily make one totally accepting of the world as it is? As with Christianity not being compatible with Objectivism, how is determinism? I don't know.

--Brant

determined to de-determine the afflicted and de-poor the poor

An excellent question. Here's an analogy: Let's pretend for a moment that we're all brains floating in jars somewhere and that reality is just a computer simulation that's stimulating electrodes attached to the jar. What effect does that have on our lives? Well, none really. We can only perceive the simulated world we're presented. We'll never be able to crawl out of our jars or even perceive that we're in a jar. So if ultimately we're all brains floating in jars, our reality, even if it's simulated, is unchanged. If I cut myself in the simulated world I feel pain. If I eat a grape, I enjoy the taste. Simulated reality, even if it isn't the "ultimate" reality is what I have to deal with day-to-day, from birth to death. So, even if the universe is deterministic, we have to behave as though we do have free will, because we'll never be able to know otherwise - i.e. we'll never be out of the jar. No computer, no matter how fast, could ever calculate everything there is to predict the future. You would need a computer bigger than the universe. So our only choice is to act as though we do have free will - even though we ultimately don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you factor in quantum theory to your understanding of the physical cosmos? The laws of quantum physics are not deterministic yet the predict outcomes better than any other theory.

I would say, based on my admittedly limited understanding of quantum theory, that things at the quantum level can't be demonstrated to be deterministic or not. But let's assume for the moment, that causality doesn't occur at the quantum level. So long as it stops there (meaning everything larger obeys causality) then free will would still seem to be doomed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don: I am determined to welcome you to this forum, and yet I say this of my own free will. :laugh:

Thank you PDS. :)

I value intellectual integrity above all. I abhor pseudo-intellectuals and pretentiousness. I can't stomach laziness of mind. If your goal is to sound intellectual to impress others or bolster your ego, we will not get along.

hmm ok no pretentions, whats up dude

No pretentiousness - just trying to save time. pre·ten·tious Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

on, your avatar does not show me any particular sense of humour but you do look handsome. Are you rich?

Carol

Just asking

I was going for a "Glamour Shots By Deb" look with the pose, though I might have failed. :) Rich? Upper-middle class I suppose with upward mobility. Married though, sorry. And my wife has a fancy horse so that eats most of my money. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Atreides your real name? Sounds like a reference to Dune to me. And 'Don' in front of it is like Don Juan or Don Giovanni.

If it's made up it's a clever online handle.

it is my real name actually, but not the name I was born with. I changed it some years ago.

treus

King of Mycenae, the son of Pelops. The father of Agamemnon and Menelaüs

The descendants of Atreus are the Atreides

Its from the Odyssey

Ba'al Chatzaf

Points to Ba'al Chatzaf for the Iliad reference!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kolker, you impress me!

Don't be too impressed. I have a head full of shit, bits and odds and ends. If I shake my head it sounds like a can half filled with nuts and bolts.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Mine too! Let's form a conglmerate.. I have always wanted to open a "tops" store where you could find a perfect cap for every receptacle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theseus of the House of Atreus.. learned early to "live by what was in him", as wonderfully imagined by Renault in two novels. Any one else read them? "The Bull from the Sea" and "The king Must Die". They are so good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sitting here thinking about pretentiousness and determinism.

I'll consider myself thought-provoking then. :)

On further consideration of the pretentious charge, I stand by my denial. However with outside counsel I will accept the mantle of "conceited". Being truly gracious as I am though, I'd like to blame my conceitedness on the shortcomings of others: If everyone else was better, I wouldn't be so conceited! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now