Anarcho-capitalism VS Objectivism


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Atlas Shrugged was published over 50 years ago. If it had any impact on America, I can't see it.

Correct.

One significant reason was the non-rational decision to shun electoral politics.

The "we don't get our hands dirty theory" that existed at NBI which was a failure.

The abrogation of the educational sphere at all levels was catastrophic.

Thirdly, an archaic confidence in Gutenberg print media, rather than television.

A...

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Private International Law is also called "the conflict of laws".

Always makes me happy to mention Hugo Grotius, father of individual liberty and international law.

"Grotius' truly distinctive contribution to jurisprudence and philosophy of law (international law or law of nations in particular) was that he secularized natural law... Adam Smith, in lectures delivered in 1762 on the subject of moral philosophy and the law of nations, said that: Jurisprudence is that science which inquires into the general principles which ought to be the foundation of laws of all nations. Grotius seems to have been the first who attempted to give the world anything like a regular system of natural jurisprudence..." [Wikipedia]

"Grotius and his successors stressed the powers and entitlements of the person who has rights. By associating rights with the powers of a person, moderns were able to distinguish sharply between rights on the one hand versus duties on the other... Grotius made rights into powers or faculties which humans possessed..." [Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy]

"Until Grotius defined an alternative during the Renaissance, the tribe was an indivisible social whole... and all deeds to property were conferred by a tribal sovereign, whose voice was supposed to embody and speak for everyone. [Laissez Faire Law, p.83]

17th-century theory had taken two directions. On the one hand it conceived of rights as the outgrowth of a social contract. It held that there would be none without the social organization and that there would be no justice or law without the political organization, that is, the state...

On the other hand, there was the Grotian idea of rights as qualities inhering in persons. This theory put rights above the state and justice above the state as permanent, absolute realities which the state was organized to protect. There was a state because there were rights and justice to protect and secure.

In the 18th century the latter idea definitely prevailed...

18th century juristic thought, down to Kant, holds four propositions: (1) There are natural rights demonstrable by reason. These rights are eternal and absolute. They are valid for all men in all times and in all places. (2) Natural law is a body of rules, ascertainable by reason, which perfectly secures all of these natural rights. (3) The state exists only to secure men in these natural rights. (4) Positive law is the means by which the state performs this function, and it is obligatory only so far as it conforms to natural law. The appeal is to individual reason. Hence every individual is the judge of this conformity... Pushed to its limits, this leads straight to anarchy.

[Roscoe Pound, 27 Harv. L. Rev. 616, quoted in Laissez Faire Law, p.32]

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Michael Marotta wrote

I do not advocate for those, either, but if there were a discussion in which the philosophers rationalistically attempted to argue whether other people could live like that, I would point to some examples.

end quote

People have a right to band together into a commune or any type of community so long as individual rights are preserved. But I have a problem with cult mentalities than raise their children to be cultists. I remember reading Katie Holmes left the actor Tom Cruise when he was about to subjugate their daughter to what amounted to slavery and indoctrination on a Scientology sailing vessel.

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People have a right to band together into a commune

"If property is held in common, it is impossible to litigate. Every current and future member of the socialist collective would be party to a lawsuit and they might all be simultaneously petitioners and respondents... Ansoc enclaves are destined to stress and infuriate everyone, especially the neighbors. I'll wager $100 to a donut that all socialism will ever produce is untreated sewage dumped in rivers to the exasperation of capitalist neighbors downstream... Pray that ansocs don't experiment with nuclear power. One Chernobyl was enough.

"Nor is it accurate to depict an ansoc commune as a family... It is absurd to characterize ansoc leaders and apparachiks as sovereign 'parents' with numerous adopted children, grandchildren and future generations of slaves, none of whom can ever be emanicipated or individuated or hold title to property. The moral crime of brainwashing small kids to deny liberty becomes heinous by claiming that a collective is their perpetual and exclusive moral tutor."

[Laissez Faire Law, p.200]

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Wolf wrote:

Atlas Shrugged was published over 50 years ago. If it had any impact on America, I can't see it.

end quote

Your examples that prove the victory of Progressivism over one book, Atlas Shrugged, are depressing. However, your examples do not frighten me like those two hurricanes heading for Hawaii. I dont see the inevitability of Marxism no matter what it is now called.

Wolf, I pray to Zeus that Republicans achieve a majority in the Senate in 2014 and we elect a freedom loving President in 2016. Its a tough challenge when you consider even mainstream TV is set to broadcast a Madam Secretary who seems a lot like Hillary. Weve got FOX and Rush Limbaugh on our side but the enemy has the other channels and most of the other news outlets like newspapers, the online Huffington Post, Rolling Stone, Yahoo News, celebrities, etc.

I forget the exact figure but Atlas Shrugged continues to sell quite well, and most of those who read it will be influenced in a positive way.

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Wolf quotes [Laissez Faire Law, p.200].

The illegality of communes? I had not thought of that, Wolf. There is actually a site where left libertarians congregate and talk about anarchic communal living, which sounds hideous to me. There oughta be a law . . . .

Notes: I get this definition from Ayn Rands The Nature of Government, The Virtue of Selfishness, page 109:

The fundamental difference between private action and governmental actiona difference thoroughly ignored and evaded todaylies in the fact that a government holds a monopoly on the legal use of physical force. It has to hold such a monopoly, since it is the agent of restraining and combating the use of force; and for that very same reason, its actions have to be rigidly defined, delimited and circumscribed; no touch of whim or caprice should be permitted in its performance; it should be an impersonal robot, with the laws as its only motive power. If a society is to be free, its government has to be controlled.

Under a proper social system, a private individual is legally free to take any action he pleases (so long as he does not violate the rights of others), while a government official is bound by law in his every official act. A private individual may do anything except that which is legally forbidden; a government official may do nothing except that which is legally permitted.

This is the means of subordinating might to right. This is the American concept of a government of laws and not of men.

end quote

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We've got FOX and Rush Limbaugh on our side...

I would assert that Mark Levin, with his Liberty Amendments, using Article V of the Constitution, will be at the top of that list.

There are well over thirty (30) states that have these State conventions to offer Amendments for a Convention of the States.

A,,,

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I pray to Zeus that Republicans achieve a majority in the Senate in 2014 and we elect a freedom loving President in 2016.

 

The time to be frightened is when evils can be remedied; when they cannot be fully remedied they must be faced with courage. When danger is far off we may think of our weakness; when it is near we must not forget our strength. (Winston Churchill, June 28, 1939)

 

For more than a century, libertarians and freethinkers have urged you to live for your own sake. It is your basic right. Pack up your family and head for the hills, before World War III commences in earnest — the divine retribution sought and so richly deserved by those who preach life after death. ["The Scourge of Religion", LFC Times, October 2001]

 

Today:

 

Moments ago Bloomberg reported, citing Defense minister Rob Nicholson speaking in Ontario, that Canada, a NATO member, will send military equipment to Ukraine... Furthemore, since Canada is now involved, expect other NATO member countries to also jump in, thus provoking the Russian bear that much more and leading to a sequence of events that will hardly be pleasant for anyone. [New York Times]

 

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Adam wrote:

I would assert that Mark Levin, with his Liberty Amendments, using Article V of the Constitution, will be at the top of that list.

There are well over thirty (30) states that have these State conventions to offer Amendments for a Convention of the States.

end quote

Sorry for leaving Mark Levin off my short list of good guys. I am open to a Constitutional Convention in 2017 if things go as planned.

Wolf wrote:

Moments ago Bloomberg reported, citing Defense minister Rob Nicholson speaking in Ontario, that Canada, a NATO member, will send military equipment to Ukraine...

end quote

It sure will urinate Putin off, but equipment is not troops. Ukraine is not in NATO. What if the US enlarges NATO to include Ukraine and Israel? Turkey, a NATO member has been railing against Israel for not being sufficiently concerned with Palestinian civilian casualties.

If The Ukraine were included into NATO tomorrow it could be one of those flash points that cause the air raid sirens to go off. How has it come to this point? Putin is quite similar to Hitler in his quest for forced hegemony over his neighbors. Should we be isolationist as Rand Paul advises?

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Should we be isolationist as Rand Paul advises?

 

Doesn't matter any more.

 

CVN-77 and LDH-5 in theater, LDH-7 en route [Stratfor], guided-missile cruiser CG-72 entered Black Sea [RT]

US Air Force deployed F-16s to Poland, F-15s to Lithuania, US Army battalion going to Ukraine [stars & Stripes]

 

Rays of light that appear on the CVN-77 emblem represent Bush’s concept of a "thousand points of light"

wherein he urged Americans to find meaning and reward by serving a purpose higher than themselves. [USN]

 

nimitz_class_uss_geroge_hw_bush.jpgCVN-77_1_sm.jpg

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I looked in The Stars and Stripes but I did not see a story about combat troops going, but some troops were going to train Ukraineans.

By John Vandiver

Stars and Stripes

Published: August 7, 2014

EUCOM sends advisers to Ukraine to assist in crash probe

U.S. European Command has dispatched a small team of advisers to Ukraine to support the investigation into the downing of the Malaysian airliner last month.

Hagel cites well-grounded concerns that Russia could invade Ukraine

Rising concerns that Moscow is poised to launch an invasion into Ukraine are well-grounded because Russian troops are continuing to mass along the volatile border between the two countries, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Wednesday.

Leaders call for NATO to boost military presence in east

Proposals for a beefed up NATO rapid-reaction force and a military headquarters in Poland already have the backing of some top alliance officials, signaling NATO members are prepared to

adopt concrete measures when heads of state meet next month.

NATOs top military commander on Thursday said the alliance should redefine its core commitment to defend its members from external aggression by factoring in new and unconventional threats such as cyberwarfare and irregular militia operations.

This is not the time to talk about reducing the number of F-15 fighter jets in Europe, given the situation in Ukraine, according to the new commander of the 48th Fighter Wing, which flies the only F15s in Europe.

Navy warship visit to Baltics aims to reassure

Its not often that a head of state asks to speak with the commanding officer of a Navy warship. For Cmdr. Brian Diebold, it happened for the first time at the end of June.

NATOs secretary-general called on Russia Thursday to step back from the brink as concerns mount that Moscow might be preparing to launch an invasion into Ukraine under the guise of a peacekeeping operation.

Do not use peacekeeping as an excuse for war-making, Anders Fogh Rasmussen said during a news conference streamed live from Kiev, where he met with Ukrainian leaders.

U.S. and other Western officials estimate that Russia has massed some 20,000 troops near the Ukrainian border, across which pro-Russian militants have been engaged in a bloody conflict with Ukrainian government forces.

Russias support to the separatists continues, Rasmussen said. It has intensified in scale and sophistication.

The downing of a Malaysian airliner, killing all 298 people on board, shows the tragic global consequences of that reckless support, Rasmussen said. And Russia has massed large forces on the Ukrainian border, to shield the separatists and to use any pretext to intervene even further.

Rasmussen, who was in Kiev to meet with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, said the 28-nation NATO alliance is prepared to deepen its military partnership with Ukraine, a non-NATO member.

In June, NATO defense ministers agreed to establish four special trust funds to pool resources to assist Ukraine in areas such as defense planning, command and control, logistics, and retraining retired military personnel who could assist in the current crisis.

The NATO chief also said he expects Ukraine to be incorporated into more joint NATO military drills with the goal of bolstering the countrys defense capabilities.

We are ready to intensify this cooperation, Rasmussen said.

Since Russias annexation of Ukraines Crimea Peninsula in March, relations between NATO and Moscow have rapidly deteriorated, bringing to an end military cooperation in counterterrorism, counter piracy and other areas.

While Western officials have stated there is no military solution to the crisis, the U.S. and its allies in Europe have gradually increased economic sanctions on Russia, which in turn has banned imports of a number of Western food and agricultural products. Moscow has also threatened bans on flights over its airspace.

Rasmussen said he expected severe economic penalties to be imposed on Moscow if Russia launches an invasion of Ukraine.

I have no doubt it would lead to deeper, more profound, tougher economic sanctions that would really hurt the Russian economy, Rasmussen said.

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Wolf wrote, Plenty of tinder, just needs a spark. end quote

Your perspective is refreshing Wolf. When I first read what you said I was sure you were overreacting, until I dug deeper. The situation reminds me of Doctor Strangelove. The article in The Stars and Stripes was a lot more bellicose than what we are hearing from the Obama administration and press. The announcements from NATO are a lot more ominous than what is being reported here.

I subscribe to The Times of Israel and occasionally I will look at an English version of the Egyptian press. It is good to step out of our media bubble and see what the rest of the world is thinking.

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I always urge Rational Anarchists to look at historical reality then compare two political ideals: Limited, Objectivist Government, and Rational Anarchisms no government. Can a quest for both philosophical ideals have intermediate steps leading to the ideal? Could the intermediate steps be the same for both ideals?

Historically human social units have evolved from families, to clans, and then into empires, monarchies, or governments. Many times over the millennia these existing governments have dissolved leaving a state of free-range anarchism. However, that state of nature has never turned into Rational Anarchism. To the contrary, naturally occurring anarchism (or no laws and no leader over a majority of the residents of any territory) has always evolved from lawlessness to too much law, not to universal *natural rights.*

It is no less true of so-called limited government. How else to explain how a nation that Rand called "the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world" turned into a Safety Net State which is rapidly approaching the tipping point where welfare recipients exceed in every precinct the voting numbers of the net producers?

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How else to explain how a nation that Rand called "the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world" turned into a Safety Net State which is rapidly approaching the tipping point where indigent welfare recipients exceed the voting numbers of the net producers?

 

I read an unexpected explanation recently, of why America went fruity with regulation. Large trusts (railroads, steel, oil, communication) in the Gilded Age found that scale cut into their profits and that small independents had better profitability. Rockefeller, Morgan and Carnegie apparently lobbied for government regulation and rate-setting, not unlike James Taggart and Orren Boyle in fiction.

 

I haven't verified it with primary research, but it sounds plausible. Broadcasters and cable operators love their license to print money.

 

New Deal and Great Society welfare started small, like income tax did. In 1913, the top tax rate was 7% on incomes above $500,000

($12 million in 2014 dollars) declared on a postcard form. The basic problem is legislation juiced by the 16th and 17th Amendments.

 

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters

discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. [Alexander Tytler]

 

b2427_chart2.ashx?w=500&h=459&as=1

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How else to explain how a nation that Rand called "the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world" turned into a Safety Net State which is rapidly approaching the tipping point where indigent welfare recipients exceed the voting numbers of the net producers?

I read an unexpected explanation recently, of why America went fruity with regulation. Large trusts (railroads, steel, oil, communication) in the Gilded Age found that scale cut into their profits and that small independents had better profitability. Rockefeller, Morgan and Carnegie apparently lobbied for government regulation and rate-setting, not unlike James Taggart and Orren Boyle in fiction.

I haven't verified it with primary research, but it sounds plausible. Broadcasters and cable operators love their license to print money.

New Deal and Great Society welfare programs started small, like income tax did (1% declared on a postcard-size form).

Oh, the thesis that late 19th century regulation came at the behest of major players in American industry in order to avoid competition is well researched and documented. See especially the work of Gabriel Kolko (who died last May):

  • Railroads and Regulation, 1877–1916. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1965. .
  • The Triumph of Conservatism: A Reinterpretation of American History, 1900-1916. New York, NY: The Free Press, 1963.

Unfortunately Rand's romantic vision of the American industrialist as persecuted Atlas blinded many of her followers to the historical reality.

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Francisco, you are correct, but, you err. The Triumph of Conservatism was recommended by Ayn Rand. In Atlas Shrugged as in The Fountainhead corrupt business people are cheek-by-jowl with the government. Gus Webb and the other architects who took over Courtland Homes were all independent businessmen. I believe that it was Ed Hudgins at the Atlas Society who pointed out just about a year ago that Kip Chalmers and Cuffy Meigs are preppie names, identified with rich New Englanders, i.e., conservatives. The "top and the bottom" was Wesley Mouch, inheritor of a fortune.

Rand was pretty clear on good and evil. In fact, for an interesting spin on Ayn Rand and capitalism, try this: Defending Capitalism Against Ayn Rand, the most read article in the archives of Liberty Unbound.

Contrary to the facile interpretations of the Atlas Shrugged movies by modern conservatives, Ayn Rand had a lot of respect for Marxists as scientists of history. They were wrong, of course, but they tried, which the conservatives as traditionalists do not. The same goes for the progressives of her time. She disagreed radically with their prescriptions, but she respected their attempt to identify social problems and offer solutions by means of reason; again that was in contradistinction to conservatives who argued that there were no problems, or nothing we could do about them.

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In fact, for an interesting spin on Ayn Rand and capitalism, try this: Defending Capitalism Against Ayn Rand, the most read article in the archives of Liberty Unbound.

Thanks for the reference. Interesting. As large a role as advertising and salesmen play in our (semi-) capitalist economy, they are barely mentioned in Atlas Shrugged, and always with a negative tone. (This is an observation, not a criticism.)

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Francisco wrote:

It is no less true of so-called limited government. How else to explain how a nation that Rand called "the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world" turned into a Safety Net State which is rapidly approaching the tipping point where welfare recipients exceed in every precinct the voting numbers of the net producers?

end quote

That is an excellent point: the best ever is evolving into not the worst ever, but the not so good, and the not so good is not sustainable. Is there a scientifically and historically tested theory of government or anarchy?

Sorry Francisco. I may sound like a broken record, but here is my standard gripe about Rational Anarchism. Rational Anarchism has no *history,* so my primary source for the denial of anarchys validity is the presumption of many anarchists that their theory is an exercise in rigorous, logical, almost scientific reasoning,(as Marxism purports to be) whereas it is nothing of the sort. The basic problem with anarchism as a valid political or scientific theory is that it has not fulfilled the requirement that you can point to it. You cant even point to a successful experimental model like a commune that I know of. (Ye Olde Iceland notwithstanding, though it existed, was not a civilization, and with its CHIEFS that were truly judges it was also a limited government.)

Rational Anarchism lies as much within the domain of speculative philosophy as any other theory. It typically presupposes the failure of all pretentious governments that claim they protect individual rights. Anarchism posits an inevitable progression from minimal government to totalitarian statism, (to anarchism?) They point at the decline of America, the best example of Constitutional Government, as the proof. Still an anarchist can only speculate, why cant we all just get along without Government?

Another problem with Anarchy as a political theory or science is that it has not formulated any laws that are specific enough to be tested by empirical means. By its lack of any universal enforcer of justice, and the fact that anyone is free to do whatever they want to do in an anarchy, until and unless, another anarchist persuades or forces them to stop doing it. Or an empire forces the Native (anarchists) to behave. That shows that anarchy reverts to chaos. Anarchists like to use the old American West as an example of Rational Anarchy, but this was migration not planned anarchy, and it resulted in every American territory petitioning to be a part of the Union. People naturally want to be free but humans also prefer peace and security. So we elect sheriffs or Texas Rangers to protect individual rights, whenever a certain population density is reached

Anarchists can no more predict human behavior in detail than can a constitutionalist. But, Constitutionalism has the saving graces of longevity and the ability to go back and right a wrong. Until anarchists exhibit a superior predictive ability, one that derives from anarchistic laws of human behavior, then they are merely philosophers arguing with other philosophers. Anarchism in the realm of human action is philosophy, not science, or demonstrable fact.

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Rand was pretty clear on good and evil. In fact, for an interesting spin on Ayn Rand and capitalism, try this: Defending Capitalism Against Ayn Rand, the most read article in the archives of Liberty Unbound.

Wow, what a ridiculous collection of obfuscations, equivocations, non sequiturs and definitions by non-essentials.

One might as well say that Stalin breathed air, and Ayn Rand breathed air, and therefore Ayn Rand was a Communist just like Stalin.

J

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Sorry for leaving Mark Levin off my short list of good guys. I am open to a Constitutional Convention in 2017 if things go as planned.

No problem.

However, you need to not refer to the Article V process as a Constitutional convention, it is a Convention of the States to ratify specific proposed Amendments to the founding document.

There is no provision in the document to have a Constitutional convention. There was only one which crafted this document.

Article 5 of the Constitution provides for the amendment of the Constitution by various means (see The Amendments Page for details). However an amendment is proposed, it does not become part of the Constitution unless it is ratified by three-quarters of the states (either the legislatures thereof, or in amendment conventions). The following is a record of each ratified amendment and the states and dates that led to the ratification. The Constitutional Timeline and the Ratification Grid may also be of interest.

Colored cells with an "R" inside indicate that the state ratified the amendment. Colored cells with an "X" inside indicate that the state rejected the amendment and never accepted it. Cells with a dash ("-") in them indicate no ratification action is recorded. Empty cells indicate that an amendment was ratified prior to statehood. The "%" column indicates the percentage of ratified amendments the state has ratified.

State 1-10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 % Alabama R R R R - R R R R R R - R R R 87 Alaska R R R R R 100 Arizona R R R R R R - R - R R R 83 Arkansas R R R R R R R R R R X - R R R 87 California R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Colorado R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Connecticut R R X R R R X R R R R R R R R R R R 93 Delaware R R X R R R - - R R R R R R R R R R 89 Florida R R R - - R R R R R - R R - R 73 Georgia R R R R R R R - R R R - R - - - R R 81 Hawaii R R R R - 80 Idaho R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Illinois R R R R R - R R R R R R R R R 93 Indiana R R R R R - R R R R R R R R R 93 Iowa R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Kansas R R R R R R R R - R R R R R R 93 Kentucky R R R R R R - R R R R - - R R - - 71 Louisiana R R R R R R R R - R - - R R R 80 Maine R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Maryland R R R R R R R - R R R R R R R R R R 96 Massachusetts R R X R R R R R R R R R X R R R R - 89 Michigan R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Minnesota R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Mississippi R R R R - R R R - R - X R - - 60 Missouri R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 State 1-10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 % Montana R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Nebraska R R R R R R R - R R R R R - 86 Nevada R R R R R R R R R R R R R - R 93 New Hampshire R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R - R 96 New Jersey R - R R R R - R R R R R R R R R R R 93 New Mexico R R R R R R R R R R - R 92 New York R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R - 96 North Carolina R R R R R R R R R R R - R - R R R R 93 North Dakota R R R R R R - R R R - - R 77 Ohio R R R - R R R R R R R R R R R R 94 Oklahoma R R R R R - X R - R R R 75 Oregon R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Pennsylvania R - R R R R - R R R R R R R R R R - 89 Rhode Island R R R R R R X - X R R R - R R R R - 81 South Carolina R R R R R R R - R R R X R - - - R R 81 South Dakota R R R R R - R R R R - R 75 Tennessee R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Texas R R R R R R R R R R - - R R R 87 Utah X X R R R R R R R R - R 75 Vermont R R R R R R - R R R R R R R R R R R 96 Virginia R R R R R R - - R R R R R - R R R R 89 Washington R R R R R R - R R R R - 75 West Virginia R R R R R R R R R - R R R R R 93 Wisconsin R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R 100 Wyoming - R R R R R R R - R R R 75 State 1-10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 % Percentage 100 87 76 100 100 97 81 77 94 100 100 79 85 80 80 94 82 82

Very nice links.

A...

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Rand was pretty clear on good and evil. In fact, for an interesting spin on Ayn Rand and capitalism, try this: Defending Capitalism Against Ayn Rand, the most read article in the archives of Liberty Unbound.

Wow, what a ridiculous collection of obfuscations, equivocations, non sequiturs and definitions by non-essentials.

One might as well say that Stalin breathed air, and Ayn Rand breathed air, and therefore Ayn Rand was a Communist just like Stalin.

J

Yeah, I think Mike slept through Venn diagrams.

A...

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Francisco wrote:

It is no less true of so-called limited government. How else to explain how a nation that Rand called "the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world" turned into a Safety Net State which is rapidly approaching the tipping point where welfare recipients exceed in every precinct the voting numbers of the net producers?

end quote

That is an excellent point: the best ever is evolving into not the worst ever, but the not so good, and the not so good is not sustainable. Is there a scientifically and historically tested theory of government or anarchy?

Sorry Francisco. I may sound like a broken record, but here is my standard gripe about Rational Anarchism. Rational Anarchism has no *history,* so my primary source for the denial of anarchys validity is the presumption of many anarchists that their theory is an exercise in rigorous, logical, almost scientific reasoning,(as Marxism purports to be) whereas it is nothing of the sort. The basic problem with anarchism as a valid political or scientific theory is that it has not fulfilled the requirement that you can point to it. You cant even point to a successful experimental model like a commune that I know of. (Ye Olde Iceland notwithstanding, though it existed, was not a civilization, and with its CHIEFS that were truly judges it was also a limited government.)

So it is logical to advocate only political systems that we can point to historically? Then where in history do you point, Mr. Taylor, when you wish to suggest something other than the status quo?

If it's Constitutionalism you want, kindly point to a span of more than a few years when government men were held in check by a mere scrap of paper.

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If it's Constitutionalism you want, kindly point to a span of more than a few years when government men were held in check by a mere scrap of paper.

FF:

"...a few..." - some hard number please.

"...government men were held in check..." from what? Ordering a cheeseburger? [that is still legal in this country right?]

A...

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