syrakusos Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Here is the state's PDF of the lawhttps://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/?yea...120&format=pdfHere is the plain texthttps://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/?id=...ar=2013&type=0Sorry Minnesota Customers — Law Effectives Today Deprives Citizens Of Their Choice Of Coin DealersLiberty Coin Service’s Monthly Review of Precious Metals and Numismatics Volume 20 Issue 7 July 1, 2014 http://libertycoinservice.com/images/stories/lcsnewsletter/current/currentnews.pdf[Will be archived after 31 July 2014 as http://libertycoinservice.com/images/stories/lcsnewsletter/2014/june.pdf] Last year, the Minnesota legislature and the governor worked together to enact a law imposing horrendous regulatory burdens on coin dealers buying and selling “bullion coins” with Minnesota consumers, even if such transactions were conducted face-to-face outside of the state. The pretext for passing this law was an allegedly unacceptable level of deceptive and fraudulent practices by Minnesota coin dealers inflicted on consumers in the state. As of yesterday, only about 30 Minnesota coin dealers had registered with that state’s Department of Commerce and only one dealer outside of the state had registered. A survey taken in the past 24 hours by the Industry Council for Tangible Assets, the national coin and precious metals dealers trade association, revealed that about 85% of non-Minnesota dealers were going to cease doing any business with consumers in Minnesota. Other information revealed that a significant percentage of existing Minnesota coin dealers were going to close their businesses. Many others were changing their operations to no longer handle any coins that have a gold, silver, platinum, or palladium content of 1% or more. The two Minnesota coin shows scheduled to take place in July have seen table rentals fall sharply. Almost no out-of-state dealers are willing to enter Minnesota to take a booth at a coin show. Unfortunately, in the name of trying to protect consumers, the politicians in Minnesota have actually deprived the state’s citizens of the opportunity to work with a large number of reputable coin dealers. For now, Liberty Coin Service, like most non-Minnesota coin dealers, will no longer buy or sell to Minnesota customers, even if they physically come to our store in Michigan. Registration and compliance would cost thousands of dollars per year and generate oodles of detailed paperwork for each transaction. We pray that the damage inflicted on Minnesota citizens from the unintended consequences of this law will encourage a quick repeal or a major reduction in the paperwork and financial burden imposed on coin dealers. We hope that it may be possible to resume serving our much appreciated customers in Minnesota before too long. http://libertycoinservice.com/images/stories/lcsnewsletter/current/currentnews.pdf[Will be archived after 31 July 2014 as http://libertycoinservice.com/images/stories/lcsnewsletter/2014/june.pdf] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 What is to stop someone from going out of state to buy or sell metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 You do not understand what is happening here. Yes, someone from Minnesota can go to another state and just buy across the counter, if that state does not require identification. Those that do not require it for buying often require identification (driver's license and thumbprint for instance) for selling. Yes, you could leave Minnesota and find a safe place to buy. And someone may sell to you.This is not that. The largest dealers in America are refusing to sell into Minnesota. Some, such as Liberty Coin Service in Lansing, Michigan, refuse to sell across the counter to anyone from Minnesota. They do not want the potential future hassles. I believe, however, that something else is at work here: this is a producers' boycott of a looter state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You do not understand what is happening here. Yes, someone from Minnesota can go to another state and just buy across the counter, if that state does not require identification. Those that do not require it for buying often require identification (driver's license and thumbprint for instance) for selling. Yes, you could leave Minnesota and find a safe place to buy. And someone may sell to you.This is not that. The largest dealers in America are refusing to sell into Minnesota. Some, such as Liberty Coin Service in Lansing, Michigan, refuse to sell across the counter to anyone from Minnesota. They do not want the potential future hassles. I believe, however, that something else is at work here: this is a producers' boycott of a looter state.Could someone from Minn. use a shill to buy out of state?Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 Bob, this is not about "getting around" the law. It is about complying with it, as in Atlas Shrugged. Working on this story, I am collecting public statements from numismatic houses ("coin dealers") who refuse to do business in Minnesota. Period. I got another public statement issued last year from the Classical Numismatic Group, America's largest provider and buyer of ancient coins, and a branch office of Seaby, the oldest numismatic firm in the world. So far, only 27 Minnesota dealers have registered. Only four out-of-state dealers have registered. Unlike the past where people just tried to get around bad laws - and found themselves fined or imprisoned or both - this is different: producers are giving the looters what they really want by complying fully: not doing business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Shrugging is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Heritage Auctions is offering a rare 1792 Silver-Center cent, technically a pattern coin of the US Mint, in its upcoming September 3-7, 2014, Long Beach Sale. All 26 known specimens have been accounted for, and tallied at auctions. Of those 14 have been "plated" (photographed and published). Walter Breen's _Encyclopedia_ asserted that only 12 were genuine, the others being "dangerous counterfeits" by which Breen might have meant that they were struck later at the Mint from original dies for friends of the Mint management, a common practice of the time. These Silver Center "Birch" Cent coins range in condition from Very Fine to Uncirculated and price between $250,000 and an expected One MIllion Dollars for this Uncirculated (PCGS 61) example. This coin weighs about 70 grains and contains about 2.48 grains of silver. It is BULLION by Minnesota law and to be sold, the seller has to inform of the buyer of the precious metal content and the MARKET value of the precious metal content. At today's price of silver ($22 high), that is about 11 cents of silver. Realize that this law was passed to protect Minnesotans from "scams" run by "bullion investment" firms. So, if you are from Minnesota, and have a million dollars, do not buy this coin. It might have been one of the two given to President Washington, but it is only "worth" 11 cents, not a million dollars. Heritage Auctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf DeVoon Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Heritage Auctions is offering a rare 1792 Silver-Center cent, technically a pattern coin of the US Mint, in its upcoming September 3-7, 2014, Long Beach Sale. All 26 known specimens have been accounted for, and tallied at auctions. Of those 14 have been "plated" (photographed and published). Walter Breen's _Encyclopedia_ asserted that only 12 were genuine, the others being "dangerous counterfeits" by which Breen might have meant that they were struck later at the Mint from original dies for friends of the Mint management, a common practice of the time. These Silver Center "Birch" Cent coins range in condition from Very Fine to Uncirculated and price between $250,000 and an expected One MIllion Dollars for this Uncirculated (PCGS 61) example. This coin weighs about 70 grains and contains about 2.48 grains of silver. It is BULLION by Minnesota law and to be sold, the seller has to inform of the buyer of the precious metal content and the MARKET value of the precious metal content. At today's price of silver ($22 high), that is about 11 cents of silver. Realize that this law was passed to protect Minnesotans from "scams" run by "bullion investment" firms. So, if you are from Minnesota, and have a million dollars, do not buy this coin. It might have been one of the two given to President Washington, but it is only "worth" 11 cents, not a million dollars. Heritage AuctionsReminds me of the "Brasher Dubloon" in Chandler's story The High Window. Maybe I should counterfeit a Birch penny or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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