Atheists, Choose a Religion!


Mike11

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In The God Delusion, Dawkins implies a hierarchy of religions. Deism at the top for embodying modernist values and Christianity near the bottom. This is not because Deism is less mistaken than Christianity but is morally superior.

So here is a thought experiment. If you had to be reborn within a particular religion and had to continue to follow that religion until the day you die, which would you choose and why?

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Paganism.

I love the fringe benefits.

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So here is a thought experiment. If you had to be reborn within a particular religion and had to continue to follow that religion until the day you die, which would you choose and why?

I would choose Unitarian Universalism, because one does not have to go to services, believe in any god, or do much more than choose to follow some or all of the suggestions contained in its Principles:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all;

Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part

I can't stand much/any organized worship, and every single religious/spiritual event I have attended made me grit my teeth and curse inwardly at some point, and the UU folks that I know in real life are only marginally less 'spiritual' than my other gawd-bothered pals and acquaintances, but any fellowship that does not have any belief or attendance requirement is my choice if I had to be born into it. I have never been able to fake my way through any 'pagan' whoopup, and I cannot stand the pretensions of the pagan nutcases I know, so I don't really know what the attraction is, nudge nudge, wink wink. If you are talking about getting laid, jumping jehosaphat, you do not need to fake your way into bed . . .

(I am an ordained clergy member, by the way)

Edited by william.scherk
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Thank you William.

I am a reform pagan which is like a reform Jewish person, no ceremonies, no attendance, no rituals,

However, when the getting laid part is engaged in I have a special church organ that really gets the oh God screams to a special level.

I am going to get ordained tomorrow at sunset, just before the Yankee ESPN game.

Adam

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I'd be a theologically Abelardian independent (non-Roman) Catholic.

The least misanthropic version of Original Sin. The least sadomasochistic concept of the Atonement. The most "love and snuggles" concept of God. Plus, Abelard's epistemology was proto-Objectivist. So you basically get all the art of Catholicism without all the misanthropy or guilt, and you can sneak a hell of a lot of Objectivism in through the back door.

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> However, when the getting laid part is engaged in I have a special church organ that really gets the oh God screams to a special level. [Adam]

Those screams are of horror and shock at how small and shriveled it is as they run the other way.

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So here is a thought experiment. If you had to be reborn within a particular religion and had to continue to follow that religion until the day you die, which would you choose and why?

I'm an agnostic currently leaning more toward the atheistic side of the fence but suppose agnostics can take part in your interesting thought experiment too, Joel.

I would choose Pantentheism as a variant of Pantheism. I have always found appealing the idea of everything being connected with everything in some way, and could relate to the idea of divine energy pervading everything in the universe, which would make us part of the divine energy as well.

Edited by Xray
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> However, when the getting laid part is engaged in I have a special church organ that really gets the oh God screams to a special level. [Adam]

Those screams are of horror and shock at how small and shriveled it is as they run the other way.

Let's hope JR doesn't get to read this, Phil. For he would instantly point out that you have committed the epistemological error of presenting a mere belief on your part as knowledge. :D ;)

Edited by Xray
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I would choose Unitarian Universalism, because one does not have to go to services, believe in any god, or do much more than choose to follow some or all of the suggestions contained in its Principles:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all;

Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part

This sounds very interesting but they go by the premise that Religion must be based on Reason:

http://www.spiritualhumanism.org/

If you agree that Religion must be based on Reason, you can be ordained right now for free, and be still able to practice your own religious traditions by simply clicking the button below:

Edited by Xray
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If you had to be reborn within a particular religion and had to continue to follow that religion until the day you die, which would you choose and why?

How about “go through the motions” Judaism? They’re the most likely to not take religion seriously nowadays.

Here’s another that might be fun, assuming that you get to be the John Hurt character, others take you seriously, and you get to die peacefully in bed. Hmm, but I can’t think of any Roman Emperors for whom that worked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITuvkuYKz6I&feature=related

The hypothetical doesn’t let you define enough variables. It might be good to be a Hindu, so long as you’re born a Brahmin. And when are you being reborn? Today? A historical time and place of your choosing?

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I would choose Unitarian Universalism, because one does not have to go to services, believe in any god, or do much more than choose to follow some or all of the suggestions contained in its Principles:

and the UU's have the best church buildings On top of the steeples question marks ("?")

I understand the most holy ritual of the UU-s is celebrating the drying of the paint.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Hellooooooo! I'm an atheist so I don't do religion.

but if I were to choose one as a so-called thought experiment it would probably be Pagan, Buddhist, Unitarian or Secular Humanist.

Just don't let Michael take me to a Baptist church. I get more than enough religion at Glenn Beck events.

Kat

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If you had to be reborn within a particular religion and had to continue to follow that religion until the day you die, which would you choose and why?

How about “go through the motions” Judaism? They’re the most likely to not take religion seriously nowadays.

The hypothetical doesn’t let you define enough variables. It might be good to be a Hindu, so long as you’re born a Brahmin. And when are you being reborn? Today? A historical time and place of your choosing?

I would tend to "go through the motions" Church of England whch was (is?) relaxed on attendance and dogmatism.

Mainly, the Anglican hymns are rousingly superb, and I would belt them out with enthusiasm.

UU, according to William and Rich, sounds interesting and maybe second choice.

Tony

Edited by whYNOT
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I will remain a godless Christian. Though I am missing church today like most Sundays I am engaging in two important soul-nourishing rites, watching Coronation Street and later, breaking bread with my progeny and lending him money.

Also, inspired by the rich spiritual diversity here, I am planning the Best. Interfaith. Conference. Ever. There will be a slide show featuring individual highlights on the road to Enlightenment.WSS at the pagan ceremony, eyes darting left and right, wearing a weak smile which he hopes looks like a frenzied leer. Xray taking notes and interrupting sermons with discomfiting questions. Joel sneaking out of Hebrew school to meet the Sunday school truants for shinny.

Ba'al lugging his own annotated copy of the Torah to his nephew's bar mitzvah, and questioning the boy in a loud puzzled voice.

In the evening,a Battle of the Choirs featuring organ recitals by Adam and Phil.

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This sounds very interesting but they go by the premise that Religion must be based on Reason:

http://www.spiritualhumanism.org/

I'm sorry, Angela -- I should have made an effort to differentiate the excerpt of Unitarian Universalist principles from the link to the Spiritual Humanist website. They are not connected. One is a religion with a long history, and the other is a mail-order business offering clergy cards.

I may change my choice of 'born into' religion. If some brand of Judaism can accommodates atheists and not yap at us about gawd and needs no prayers or rituals . . .

For the purpose of Joel's thought experiment, and considering the comments above, I should probably choose to be born into the Church Of Science, but on reflection, choosing religion by spite seems fraught. I had better show solidarity with my fellow Canuckistani and be a godless Anglican. I can sit through a lot of shit if I know at least one of my co-congregants secretly harbours disbelief. Would you please consider joining us there in the next life? I am sure we could have a lot of fun.

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So here is a thought experiment. If you had to be reborn within a particular religion and had to continue to follow that religion until the day you die, which would you choose and why?

I'm an agnostic currently leaning more toward the atheistic side of the fence but suppose agnostics can take part in your interesting thought experiment too, Joel.

I would choose Pantentheism as a variant of Pantheism. I have always found appealing the idea of everything being connected with everything in some way, and could relate to the idea of divine energy pervading everything in the universe, which would make us part of the divine energy as well.

ms Xray:

Panentheism is what you meant which is quite interesting.

Similar to Siddhartha in terms of the stream of life concept? Wherein, Hesse has the main character achieving "...transcendence when he can accept that all is false and true at the same time, that all is living and dead at the same moment, and that all possibilities are united in the spirit of the universe."

Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy

"'Panentheism' is a constructed word composed of the English equivalents of the Greek terms “pan”, meaning all, “en”, meaning in, and “theism”, meaning God. Panentheism understands God and the world to be inter-related with the world being in God and God being in the world. It offers an increasingly popular alternative to traditional theism and pantheism. Panentheism seeks to avoid both isolating God from the world as traditional theism often does and identifying God with the world as pantheism does. Traditional theistic systems emphasize the difference between God and the world while panentheism stresses God's active presence in the world. Pantheism emphasizes God's presence in the world but panentheism maintains the identity and significance of the non-divine. Anticipations of panentheistic understandings of God have occurred in both philosophical and theological writings throughout history (Hartshorne and Reese 1953; Cooper, 2006). However, a rich diversity of panentheistic understandings has developed in the past two centuries primarily in Christian traditions responding to scientific thought (Clayton and Peacocke 2004)."

Is this what you were referring to?

Adam

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I was going to say that I reject the premise ... but screw it.

Deism — it was merely good enough for Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, and it didn't get in the way of their achieving, oh, a few things of value.

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I would tend to "go through the motions" Church of England whch was (is?) relaxed on attendance and dogmatism.

Mainly, the Anglican hymns are rousingly superb, and I would belt them out with enthusiasm.

UU, according to William and Rich, sounds interesting and maybe second choice.

Tony

Yes! From Peter Abelard to Count Nicolaus Zinzendorf, orchestrated by the greatest composers who ever lived, the hymns are enough to make you believe that God is indeed an Englishman.

It was in church that I learned to love language: "Crown him the lord of years, the potentate of time, creator of the rolling spheres, ineffably sublime!" The orotund phrases with the triumphant music were incredibly satisfying.

Welcome to the parish - with Xray and WSS we can fill up a whole pew. No God required.

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I would tend to "go through the motions" Church of England whch was (is?) relaxed on attendance and dogmatism.

Mainly, the Anglican hymns are rousingly superb, and I would belt them out with enthusiasm.

UU, according to William and Rich, sounds interesting and maybe second choice.

Tony

Yes! From Peter Abelard to Count Nicolaus Zinzendorf, orchestrated by the greatest composers who ever lived, the hymns are enough to make you believe that God is indeed an Englishman.

It was in church that I learned to love language: "Crown him the lord of years, the potentate of time, creator of the rolling spheres, ineffably sublime!" The orotund phrases with the triumphant music were incredibly satisfying.

Welcome to the parish - with Xray and WSS we can fill up a whole pew. No God required.

Just watch out for the lightning strikes!

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In The God Delusion, Dawkins implies a hierarchy of religions. Deism at the top for embodying modernist values and Christianity near the bottom. This is not because Deism is less mistaken than Christianity but is morally superior.

So here is a thought experiment. If you had to be reborn within a particular religion and had to continue to follow that religion until the day you die, which would you choose and why?

I don't know how one could even call deism a "religion." Although it was called the "Religion of Nature" throughout the Enlightenment, it is more of a general perspective than a religion per se.

I haven't read the account by Dawkins, so I don't know what he means in attributing "modernist values" to deism. Viewed historically, many deists were libertarian types who fiercely defended the autonomy of reason. But when viewed from a purely theoretical perspective, the naturalistic values of deism can accommodate any number of philosophical systems.

Ghs

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