South Carolina Church Shooting

[Jules Troy]

If it was my wife or my kid or my father that got gunned down? Pleasure no, satisfaction of payback? Hell ya, I would grind that fucker into dust.

[Jjeorge]

If it was my wife or my kid or my father that got gunned down? Pleasure no, satisfaction of payback? Hell ya, I would grind that fucker into dust.

I was thinking about this earlier, actually.

If it had been my little brother (4 years old) I'd pine for something like Adam's mode of torture for awhile, so I guess I do understand.

I think I've been looking at this wrong. Surely it isn't the suffering itself that people want. Few people are actual sadists like that.

[Selene]

If it was my wife or my kid or my father that got gunned down? Pleasure no, satisfaction of payback? Hell ya, I would grind that fucker into dust.

I was thinking about this earlier, actually.

If it had been my little brother (4 years old) I'd pine for something like Adam's mode of torture for awhile, so I guess I do understand.

I think I've been looking at this wrong. Surely it isn't the suffering itself that people want. Few people are actual sadists like that.

Excellent. We agree.

[Jules Troy]

People want justice.

Letting the one that murdered your family sit on death row eating 3 squares a day? It is a bit of justice, but still a bitter pill knowing he still breathes while your family is dead, the only consolation being he can't do it to anyone else.

Except up here in Canada were half the time we let the buggers out after a "life sentence"....

[RobinReborn]

And it's causing a flurry in RSA since he's photographed with the old South African and old Rhodesian flags on his jacket.

Goes to show, many have declared, what racists whites still are. (White) FaceBookers have been rushing to deny that, quite legitimately. Nobody appears to want mentioned that hand grenades were exploded in an Anglican Church in Cape Town by members of the 'Azanian People's Liberation Party' in '93. 11 worshippers were killed, over 50 injured.

Didn't know about that... I think that's because at that time, violence was much more directed towards indigenous Africans... and because people (including the ANC) don't want to give the APLP any more attention. I saw a play they put on, fairly basic and oversimplistic narrative about what caused people to rebel against Apartheid yet be unable to come up with a much better solution.

[RobinReborn]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

Please, the introduction of cotton allowed Europeans to have changes of clothes, not live in lice infested wool and live an extra 20 years.

You are a pathetic collectivist piece of shit who lacks the self awareness to realize how much your achievements are dependent on slavery and racism.

[RobinReborn]

This guy is the perfect example of a stupid white person who is irrational enough to believe he is superior to black people yet unable to provide a rational argument and thus resorts to violence... There have been too many of those in history and it is great to finally see one of them get the sort of condemnation he deserves (except from people who will either realize their stupidity or cling to racism rather than face reality).

[Jjeorge]

People want justice.

Letting the one that murdered your family sit on death row eating 3 squares a day? It is a bit of justice, but still a bitter pill knowing he still breathes while your family is dead, the only consolation being he can't do it to anyone else.

Except up here in Canada were half the time we let the buggers out after a "life sentence"....

For me it would depend on how lonely death row is.

Barring anything fatal, that's the worst punishment I can think of, but perhaps I am biased from recent experience.

The knowledge that there is no one to talk to about any of your troubles, not even a mere acquaintance, and that you will never have that again, is soul-crushing.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

You are a pathetic collectivist piece of shit who lacks the self awareness to realize how much your achievements are dependent on slavery and racism.

RR,

Please tone it down a notch.

Nobody I know of agrees with Kyrel when he gets like this.

He speaks for himself.

At times he can be extremely inartful (heh I mean double-heh :smile: ).

I don't condone the implicit racism in his statement, but I do believe it is from a stupid manner of expression. Almost aspie-level.

I have never detected bigotry for real in him.

Michael

[RobinReborn]

OK... been dealing with personal issues and arguing about this thing throughout the internet. My patience has worn thin and I did not expect to see sympathy for the killer on this forum. I did read the killer's manifesto and was reassured at how retarded and wrong he was... after all he was a high school drop out whose 'education' came from various white supremacists (who place race above reason).

I believe what Kyrel said was completely wrong and in my experience, it's not worth arguing with people that are that wrong.

[zantonavitch]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

I also noticed that, Kyrel. Many of his statements were true.

He just chose to draw horribly evil conclusions from them.

It isn't just that most of the observations and claims in that manifesto were true. It's that they were also relevant and important to society today, as well as his personal concerns. And he wrote it with a palpable air of sincerity and earnestness. He certainly seemed to be haplessly seeking the truth about major sociological and intellectual issues which he saw all around him.

Unfortunately he was asking questions which virtually no-one today has the honesty, courage, or integrity to answer. This includes the current Objectivist/libertarian community. Also Ayn Rand. The answers the mass-murderer was evidently seeking involved a gross contradiction of today's near universally-accepted social norms and values. That whole hastily-written piece was stunningly in opposition to the standards of political correctness, multiculturalism, diversity, inclusion, sensitivity, egalitarianism, democracy, and peace. Thus to even begin to address his concerns -- however valid -- is to step into a philosophical minefield from which there is virtually no exit. Almost no-one "respectable" cares to.

Edmund Burke observed over two centuries ago that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." On the seminal issues of the deleterious impact of blacks upon historical and contemporary Western society, and their remarkable current level and practice of racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-semitism, etc., the good men of this world have chosen to do nothing. Certainly this includes the Objectivist community. Ayn Rand called this the sin of evasion. She described it, in part, as: "the willful suspension of one’s consciousness, the refusal to think -- not blindness, but the refusal to see; not ignorance, but the refusal to know. It is the act of unfocusing your mind and inducing an inner fog to escape the responsibility of judgment -- on the unstated premise that a thing will not exist if only you refuse to identify it... Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality."

Sadly, Rand herself practiced it on almost all these related issues. Her zombie followers do likewise.

One result of good people falling silent on pivotal questions of controversy is that they allow bad people to sweep the field. When that massacre-perpetrator went looking for answers to his legitimate questions seemingly all he could find were comments from various white racist groups and cult organziations. They almost certainly didn't have a good impact upon an already disturbed mind and personality. And look at the result.

[moralist]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

I also noticed that, Kyrel. Many of his statements were true.

He just chose to draw horribly evil conclusions from them.

It isn't just that most of the observations and claims in that manifesto were true. It's that they were also relevant and important to society today...

That's true, Kyrel... but NOT his answer.

This shooting is just another example of the principle that all evil enters this world through falsely ascribing blame to others.

Evil is acting on the belief in the lie that it is someone else's "fault".

And he wrote it with a palpable air of sincerity and earnestness.

Sincerity and earnestness mean absolutely nothing.

All that matters is what people do.

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Sadly, Rand herself practiced it on almost all these related issues. Her zombie followers do likewise.

Kyrel,

Consider me a zombie follower.

I will not have bigotry on this forum.

There are plenty of places on the Internet to consort with non-zombie followers and express bigotry to satisfaction.

But not here.

Zombie-in-chief,

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

I also noticed that, Kyrel. Many of his statements were true.

He just chose to draw horribly evil conclusions from them.

It isn't just that most of the observations and claims in that manifesto were true. It's that they were also relevant and important to society today, as well as his personal concerns. And he wrote it with a palpable air of sincerity and earnestness. He certainly seemed to be haplessly seeking the truth about major sociological and intellectual issues which he saw all around him.

Unfortunately he was asking questions which virtually no-one today has the honesty, courage, or integrity to answer. This includes the current Objectivist/libertarian community. Also Ayn Rand. The answers the mass-murderer was evidently seeking involved a gross contradiction of today's near universally-accepted social norms and values. That whole hastily-written piece was stunningly in opposition to the standards of political correctness, multiculturalism, diversity, inclusion, sensitivity, egalitarianism, democracy, and peace. Thus to even begin to address his concerns -- however valid -- is to step into a philosophical minefield from which there is virtually no exit. Almost no-one "respectable" cares to.

Edmund Burke observed over two centuries ago that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." On the seminal issues of the deleterious impact of blacks upon historical and contemporary Western society, and their remarkable current level and practice of racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-semitism, etc., the good men of this world have chosen to do nothing. Certainly this includes the Objectivist community. Ayn Rand called this the sin of evasion. She described it, in part, as: "the willful suspension of one’s consciousness, the refusal to think -- not blindness, but the refusal to see; not ignorance, but the refusal to know. It is the act of unfocusing your mind and inducing an inner fog to escape the responsibility of judgment -- on the unstated premise that a thing will not exist if only you refuse to identify it... Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality."

Sadly, Rand herself practiced it on almost all these related issues. Her zombie followers do likewise.

One result of good people falling silent on pivotal questions of controversy is that they allow bad people to sweep the field. When that massacre-perpetrator went looking for answers to his legitimate questions seemingly all he could find were comments from various white racist groups and cult organziations. They almost certainly didn't have a good impact upon an already disturbed mind and personality. And look at the result.

Is our hero channeling Rand on Hickman? She had some excuse due to her young age and inexperience.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Let me be clear.

OL does not exist for the elucidation of courageous intellectual warriors such as Roof with his honest integrity and valid concerns.

It exists to continue the sniveling cowardly suck-up to the powers that be and a shameful tradition of non-thinking while claiming interest in the intellect.

Come to think of it, OL is one of the reasons Roof decided to kill innocents. We refused to give him answers to the pivotal questions of controversy that plagued his innocent soul.

And because we are not moral giants like Roof, we shall continue to bootlick the system.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

When I read "Death to Islam" in Kyrel's book Pure Liberal Fire a year ago, I threw in the towel. (p. 101) I didn't read further.

--Brant

"And immediate death to all those honest, sincere, energetic, activist Islamic leaders of the governments, mosques, and madrassas of Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan. Kill them all and bomb their inhuman institutions out of existence today!"

[Selene]

When I read "Death to Islam" in Kyrel's book Pure Liberal Fire a year ago, I threw in the towel. (p. 101) I didn't read further.

--Brant

"And immediate death to all those honest, sincere, energetic, activist Islamic leaders of the governments, mosques, and madrassas of Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan. Kill them all and bomb their inhuman institutions out of existence today!"

Damn, I am really impressed by Brant's mental discipline to be able to read 101 pages written in crayon...

Bravo Brant!!

A...

[Jules Troy]

Hard not to laugh.

?

[william.scherk]

Depending on your browser, this file may be playable without extra effort of downloading. This contains the 'shocking' instance of President Obama using the word 'nigger.' Judging from some breathlessly outraged media reaction, the sky has fallen, and Obama has sullied his office. From the website of WTF podcast with Marc Maron.

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/0/e/c/0ec2e215e1617e68/WTF_-_EPISODE_613_PRESIDENT_BARACK_OBAMA.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06cb8237d0c95f5dd2&c_id=9254424

The full hour podcast via Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-_PUyAIXTQ

The 'sky-is-falling' money quote:

I always tell young people in particular, do not say that nothing's changed when it comes to race in America unless you lived through being a black man in the 1950s or '60s or '70s. It is incontrovertible that race relations have improved significantly during my lifetime and yours and that opportunities have opened up and that attitudes have changed. That is a fact.

What is also true is that the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, discrimination in almost every institution in our lives — that casts a long shadow. That's still part of our DNA, that's passed on. We're not cured of it... And it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say 'nigger' in public. That's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. It's not just a matter of overt discrimination. Societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened two to 300 years prior.

So what I tried to describe in the Selma speech that I gave was, again, a notion that progress was real, we have to take hope from that progress, but what is also real is that the march isn't over and the work is not yet completed. And then our job is to, in very concrete ways, to figure out, 'What more can we do?'

(this may take the heat off the Slavic Menace and his demented war-mongering)

Edited June 22, 2015 by william.scherk

[Jjeorge]

I believe what Kyrel said was completely wrong and in my experience, it's not worth arguing with people that are that wrong.

Funny how people often say it's not worth arguing with someone right after they have done exactly that. ;)

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

William,

I saw that tempest over nothing.

This is gotcha culture at its finest.

I wonder if Obama's behavior, though, has anything to do with his new temperament:

Obama Lowers His Guard in Unusual Displays of Emotion
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis
June 22, 2015
New York Times

From the article:

His eyes well up without warning in private, thinking about his teenage daughters growing up. He choked back tears in public recently while delivering a eulogy for Beau Biden, the son of Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., who died at 46.

He let his passions show this month in a closed meeting with House Democrats, just days after blurting out an uncharacteristically affectionate greeting to a nun before a health care speech.

President Obama, whose cool, no-drama style has for years set him apart from the extroverted politicians so common in Washington, has been getting emotional lately.

. . .

“I start tearing up in the middle of the day and I can’t explain it,” Mr. Obama told attendees at an Easter prayer breakfast in April.

Tears and the n-word.

That's a lot for one president.

Get some rhymes going and I feel a song coming on...

Michael

[william.scherk]

William,

I saw that tempest over nothing.

This is gotcha culture at its finest.

[...]

Get some rhymes going and I feel a song coming on...

Michael, I avoid reading most opinion/editorials at the NYT. I am prejudiced in a way that is hard to describe -- my teeth grind when I sense someone is reaching for utmost profundity, while indulging themselves. I remember back in the time of George Walker Bush, there were thousands (millions?) of articles devoted to hundreds of 'facets' of GWB, often ham-fisted psychological portraits in the guise of sober, sensitive inquiry. Barf.

Same with so many articles on Obama, the man, his mind, his heart. I just puke a little bit. Another day, another deadline, what is new to say? Nothing, but let's give it a go. Barf. I particularly hate David Brooks. His pseudo-profundity makes me itchy, nauseous, intellectually disgusted.

But that's my problem.

The whole faux outrage (or pearl-clutching concern) over the use of the N-word by the prez strikes me as deeply stupid and monocular. It reminds me of the probably misremembered epigraph that goes something like this: "When I point at something, look at what I am pointing to, not at my finger."

The kerfuffle over Obama's remarks strikes me as sad and funny ...

Edited June 22, 2015 by william.scherk

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

William,

 

Obama--as president--is a role model. So if he does it... well...

 

... it didn't take long for the n-word to become a thing on cable news.

 

Just a few hours, really.

 

Check out Cornel West:

 

 

 

Michael

[moralist]

Get some rhymes going and I feel a song coming on...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Oh God...

Me and my big mouth...

Michael