ISLAM TAKING OVER EUROPE ! Sharia law soon in Europe

[jts]

They are breeding like flies. Soon the world will be crawling with Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJNxRqrcyQ

[Selene]

A spurious and hateful cartoon against our great religion...

 

listen to this peaceful plea for peace from this humble "cleric and leader:"

 

[william.scherk]

They are breeding like flies. Soon the world will be crawling with Muslims.

What a surprise that you would recommend OLers take note of nasty racialist claptrap, Jerry. "Breeding like flies" ... indeed. I guess you rue getting your tubes tied.

Oddly -- or not so oddly -- this is essentially the same video that Ed Hudgins borrowed heavily from in 2011, in his article 9/11 a Decade Later. I found a very close corollary between that video and Ed's opinions, to wit:

 

I think Ed may have cribbed his numbers from a few places, one of which is perhaps JihadWatch. It is interesting that every single one of Ed's six claims also appears in 

, in exactly the same order:

 

1. Some 90 percent of the population growth in Western Europe since 1990 has been the result of Islamic immigration. @ 2:38
2. In France, 30 percent of children under 20 years old are Muslim. @ 2:58
3. In 40 years the majority in France could be Muslim. @ 3:19
4. In the Netherlands, about half of newborns are Muslim. @ 3:41
5. In 15 to 20 years the majority in the Netherlands could be Muslim. @ 3:50
6. In Germany, a government report from the Federal Statistics Office says that the Fatherland could be majority Muslim by 2050. @ 4:32

Now, it's not plagiarism, but I suggest Ed add "according to the video 'Muslim Demographics'" to that very detailed paragraph in his 2011 article:

 

Some 90 percent of the population growth in Western Europe since 1990 has been the result of Islamic immigration. In France, 30 percent of children under 20 years old are Muslim. In 40 years the majority in France could be Muslim. In the Netherlands, about half of newborns are Muslim. In 15 to 20 years the majority in the Netherlands could be Muslim. In Germany, a government report from the Federal Statistics Office says that the Fatherland could be majority Muslim by 2050 (all numbers according to the video 'Muslim Demographics').

 

And I wonder to myself, why didn't Ed just tell us that all his 2011 numbers came from the danged viral video. Isn't that video a fine and credible source of Muslim Menace numbers?

 

I invite you, Jerry, to investigate at least one or two of the claims embedded in the video. Consider this, however, should you simply wish to accept its truth claims -- what is the difference between a 'climate change' alarmism and 'Muslim time bomb' alarmism (leaving aside that each is in a category with little overlap and much different expression in the literature)?

 

Does increasing X lead to catastrophe? Does increasing Y lead to catastrophe?

 

A not-perfect analogy, admittedly, but in each case, fact-checking and premise-checking, and full engagement of critical faculties is necessary, in my opinion.

Adam, my mind is in a bit of a literalist trench at the moment. I can't really grasp the point in your remarks. Can you expand on your thoughts about Muslim Demographic Alarmism?

[Selene]

Adam, my mind is in a bit of a literalist trench at the moment. I can't really grasp the point in your remarks. Can you expand on your thoughts about Muslim Demographic Alarmism?

No.

Muslim Demographic Alarmism?

Let's try framing that in non question begging terms...

Or, you could comment on the Invasion of Europe by the Islamic Fascist's Hordes...

A...

[anthony]

That clip was made in 2008, wonder if the stats and projections have been validated. Birth rate -plus- immigration could be driving those projections up, not downwards. Seems to me if something has reasonable cause for real concern, it's gratuitous to present it with such dramatic alarmism. Skeptics can then obscure the issue by quibbling over the minutia of 'credible sources'.

What is "catastrophe" in this case, William?

[Selene]

That clip was made in 2008, wonder if the stats and projections have been validated. Birth rate -plus- immigration could be driving those projections up, not downwards. Seems to me if something has reasonable cause for real concern, it's gratuitous to present it with such dramatic alarmism. Skeptics can then obscure the issue by quibbling over the minutia of credible sources.

What is "catastrophe" in this case, William?

Now Tony, you should know that there is no "catastrophe" when you live:

4,959 Miles

7,979 Kilometer

4,306 Nautical Miles

away from the invasion.

A...

[anthony]

I am interested in Will's evaluations: of whether a Muslim majority is ever possible in European countries; if so, whether they would automatically introduce sharia law; and if so, how catastrophic would it be to him if classic European cultures, ethnicities, rights, freedoms, languages, arts, sciences - and all the rest - were engulfed by a doctrine of submission. I don't disagree with "fascism", Adam, but I don't think it goes far enough. Don't you think, what Muslim 'immoderates' are gleefully contemplating, is totalitarianism.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

They are breeding like flies. Soon the world will be crawling with Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJNxRqrcyQ

Oh, for God's sake.

Jerry, are you talking about human beings or a subhuman collective like bigots do?

I started to watch the video, but it starts like this: "According to research, in order for... (blah blah blah blah blah)."

According to research?

What research? This guy's opinion?

I'm not going to waste the precious minutes of my life on that crap.

I actually prefer an infomercial for a cure for cancer for $19.99, with an extra bottle thrown in free if you ACT NOW!!! Those things also start with, "According to research, doctors have found that... (blah blah blah blah blah)."

There actually is a problem with Muslim immigration in Europe and it's serious (and I believe orchestrated--and infiltrated by some very dangerous people), but crap like that video and comments like "They're breeding like flies" actually helps increase the problem, not solve it.

The only way to solve an issue (in reality, not in paranoid fantasies) is to correctly identify it, then do something about that. You do something about what you identified correctly, not go around like Chicken Little yelling, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" And tack on. "IT'S THEM! IT'S THEM THAT'S EVIL! THEY WILL BE THE DEATH OF US ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

If you start by incorrectly identifying something, it doesn't matter what you do. It won't be dealing with the problem in any rational manner.

Calling human beings "flies that breed" not only turns them off, it turns off people like me (and I know I'm not alone).

Put a lid on your amygdala, dude. Being attentive and worried is one thing. Being a bigot is another.

Don't let the paranoia breed like flies in your brain.

Michael

[william.scherk]

Adam, my mind is in a bit of a literalist trench at the moment. I can't really grasp the point in your remarks. Can you expand on your thoughts about Muslim Demographic Alarmism?

No.

Muslim Demographic Alarmism?

Let's try framing that in non question begging terms...

Or, you could comment on the Invasion of Europe by the Islamic Fascist's Hordes...

Sure. Let me rephrase ... do you have any thoughts about the claims made in the video? I think you are being puckish with the 'Or, you could comment' ... as I don't think either of us believes there is an actual invasion of Europe by Islamic Fascist's Hordes. At least, I don't believe that the refugees seeking asylum in Europe should be collectivized into a Horde or Hordes. It is not clear to me what you think, since puckishness and brevity may obscure otherwise reasonable point/s.

That clip was made in 2008, wonder if the stats and projections have been validated. Birth rate -plus- immigration could be driving those projections up, not downwards. Seems to me if something has reasonable cause for real concern, it's gratuitous to present it with such dramatic alarmism. Skeptics can then obscure the issue by quibbling over the minutia of 'credible sources'.

What is "catastrophe" in this case, William?

"It's gratuitous to present 'it' with such dramatic alarmism." I agree. I'd add that 'it' is overblown and based on shoddy research.

I do not agree that 'it' -- the issue of Muslims in Europe -- is obscured by methodological skepticism. I believe that methodological skepticism is a requirement for separating the true from the false or distorted. I also believe that each claim in the video needs to be examined with a critical eye -- because of the alarmism. If you have watched the video from beginning to end, the catastrophe for Europe is the demographic change to majority Muslim, as posited in the image and the conclusions. Or, if you haven't watched it, Jerry indicated the catastrophe in his header: ISLAM TAKING OVER EUROPE !

An increase in X will lead to catastrophic 'decline' in the number of white/non-Muslim 'old stock' Europeans. In Adam's cryptic remarks, the catastrophe is his belief (or rhetorical device) that the Islamic Fascist's Hordes will wreck Pure White Europe, or so I gather. He doesn't write much in depth on Islam or demographics ...

I disagree strongly that fact-checking and premise-checking is quibbling over minutia.

I don't understand the reasoning that would lead you to think that in this context, Tony. If the the argument made in the video is based on shoddy or deceptive or false assumptions, then fact-checking is a most rational option**. Accepting the conclusions without testing the assumptions is a recipe for cognitive disaster. It is, as I suggested, a lot like the skeptical view of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming Alarmism, in that such 'skepticism' subjects the alarmism to good cognitive housekeeping.

Thank you for reacting with what seems like hostility, Adam. Perhaps you might respond less cryptically to questions about your thoughts on the demographic catastrophe depicted in the video. I am left to think that you may have fully accepted the claims made in the video, judging by your 'invasion' remarks above. If I detect an anti-Muslim animus or an anti-reason stance, that may be just an effect of your being obscure and playful, instead of being upfront and reasonably responsive. I now can provisionally consider you a thoroughgoing Muslim Invasion Alarmist. Huzzah!

Life returns to the mostly destroyed Kobane, Syria ... Russian troops and airmen and a score of warplanes are in the process of embedding in Syria, with unpredictable results (I think the Russians will adapt the Syrian attitude that anyone remaining who opposes the Assad dictatorship needs to be bombed out of the country and forced on the road to Europe -- the Russian military buildup in Syria is to my mind a tragic turn of events for Syrians.

_______________________

** Source and fact-checking is made difficult (though not impossible) by the quality of the video. Here and there a source is indicated by a text overlay, but the resolution is not sharp enough to discern clearly.

Edited September 22, 2015 by william.scherk

[Selene]

Adam, my mind is in a bit of a literalist trench at the moment. I can't really grasp the point in your remarks. Can you expand on your thoughts about Muslim Demographic Alarmism?

No.

Muslim Demographic Alarmism?

Let's try framing that in non question begging terms...

Or, you could comment on the Invasion of Europe by the Islamic Fascist's Hordes...

Sure. Let me rephrase ... do you have any thoughts about the claims made in the video? I think you are being puckish with the 'Or, you could comment' ... as I don't think either of us believes there is an actual invasion of Europe by Islamic Fascist's Hordes. At least, I don't believe that the refugees seeking asylum in Europe should be collectivized into a Horde or Hordes. It is not clear to me what you think, since puckishness and brevity may obscure otherwise reasonable point/s.

Sure I do.

Frankly, I think it is the psychotic pronouncement of the folks that are whipping up the young men and women to be a glorious part of this invasion of Europe which has not ceased since the Sharia became the law of the States that are fundamentalist believers of that Islam.

And as long as folks like yourself, who only see one slice of the poor human wave that is hitting Europe, I will hold up a sign that says, "This is not what it appears to be."

[anthony]

Eh, William. A well known fact is that birth rates have long been on the decline in many European countries. A fair general surmisal is that Muslim parents (like e.g. Orthodox Jews or Catholics) often have several children. IF both rates remain steady, you don't have to be a mathematician to know that x will eventually pass y.

All that's left is not if, but "when"?

What other facts do you need?

[Brant Gaede]

The Europeans will have to take care of themselves. General Pershing isn't arriving with an American Expeditionary Force.

--Brant

[Selene]

The Europeans will have to take care of themselves. General Pershing isn't arriving with an American Expeditionary Force.

--Brant

Yep and they were doing so well before we arrived in WW I and WW II.

[william.scherk]

Frankly, I think it is the psychotic pronouncement of the folks that are whipping up the young men and women to be a glorious part of this invasion of Europe which has not ceased since the Sharia became the law of the States that are fundamentalist believers of that Islam.

And as long as folks like yourself, who only see one slice of the poor human wave that is hitting Europe, I will hold up a sign that says, "This is not what it appears to be."

Oooh, 'folks like yourself who see only' blah. This is gibberish to me, Adam. You have no argument, just apparent prejudice. I would ask you to flesh out your gibberish, but I don't think you can. I don't think you can connect your brief angry meta-analysis to facts. Such is bigotry and ignorance and pretension to knowledge. That you cannot seem to understand the horrors of war in Syria that have led to the 'hordes' leaving, there is no rational fruit to discussion with you. As if some unknown-to-you actor has whipped up an invasion. Pitiful prejudice and irrationality to my eyes.

Eh, William. A well known fact is that birth rates have long been on the decline in many European countries. A fair general surmisal is that Muslim parents (like e.g. Orthodox Jews or Catholics) often have several children. IF both rates remain steady, you don't have to be a mathematician to know that x will eventually pass y.

All that's left is not if, but "when"?

What other facts do you need?

This is no good, Tony. You seem uninterested in challenges to the propaganda of the video. So be it. I shouldn't bother with trying to reason along with you as long as you ignore the import of my previous remarks entirely. As you seem to assume "both rates [will] remain steady" in succeeding generations, I can't get purchase on shared cognitive ground ...

But, maybe this is the crux: you do not know how many children a second-generation French Muslim woman will have. You haven't tried to research this question, instead falling back on 'surmises.' That may indicate something important about the way you think on this issue -- in terms of Them, of collectives, of innate Muslim fecundity, a fecundity that cannot be and is not influenced by the societies in which they make their homes.

What other facts need? You haven't given any facts. I am wondering if I should file you with Jerry as supporting "They are breeding like flies" and believing the ugly alarmism of ISLAM TAKING OVER EUROPE !

This thread should have been lodged in the Garbage Pile, in my opinion. Ignorance, prejudice and bigotry are not what I associate with Objectivist Living.

[Peter]

Today's Times of Israel reported that they will take in 200 refugees, and I saw that Kerry had promised the U.S. will do something similar. Has anyone corroborated the claim that 2 out of a 100 will end up being terrorists?

[Brant Gaede]

Today's Times of Israel reported that they will take in 200 refugees, and I saw that Kerry had promised the U.S. will do something similar. Has anyone corroborated the claim that 2 out of a 100 will end up being terrorists?

Those two can.

--Brant

[anthony]

How fitting. For every subjective alarmism, there's subjective denialism.

No good hiding behind "propaganda" and "bigotry", Will. I know it's your tactic to shoot the messenger and run for cover to avoid making a personal judgement call, or explain "catastrophe", as I asked of you. (i.e. If so-and-so says this...well, everybody knows he's a liar, bigot...).

There are stone-cold facts from too many other sources that a non-skeptic can evaluate clearly. Your fancy that every European Muslim is good, humble, and plain misunderstood or prejudiced against, has long been overtaken by events. In only a year, there are a proliferation of police reports of agitating Muslim radicals and criminals among the Muslim populations in only England, Belgium, Sweden and France to prompt great worry there. Be sure of one thing - those numbers will not decrease. Simple Math, their proportions will increase. While Islam remains what it is - various things to different Muslims, at whim, it appears.

My belief in "Innate fecundity", crap. It is "a fact", the religious-social culture of Catholics, Orthodox Jews - and Muslims - is often, usually, generally, going back centuries - to have big families

(And btw: You carefully misquoted me. I said: ""IF"... both rates remain steady...").

[william.scherk]

Tony, I will respond in detail to your comment immediately above at some later time -- I mean to get to work applying methodological skepticism to the claims made in the video, as that would better serve my argument that getting het up about this or that mistaken assumption about my opinions. So, thank you for goading me into providing a better analysis. (re: skepticism of the kind you do not like: 'nothing can be known,' it should be obvious by now that my mind does not work that way. On the contrary, I believe strongly that one can strive to come closer to truth by applied reason).

At the moment my impression is that you are showing me bad faith, or at the very least willfully misinterpreting my comments in this thread. I especially find unfair the note "Your fancy that every European Muslim is good, humble, and plain misunderstood or prejudiced against" ... as I do not believe my multiple remarks on OL show this to be true. I hope you can cool out and re-read my responses to you above with fresh eyes and a goal of understanding.

I may be entirely wrong, but I don't think you really believe that I show a non-objective rationality when I seek to apply a methodological-skeptical lens to fact-claims. If I am wrong, then I am baffled at your reaction.

In the meantime, perhaps you would give a once-over to a Snopes.com article on this very video (which as I noted is essentially the same material with differing intros and outros as that put forward by Ed Hudgins). The article attempts to put many of the claims in perspective. It was originally published in 2009.

Before you read or skim the Snopes article, please view the alarmist video again and try to understand my objections.

Snopes: Muslim Demographics

As for bigotry and ignorance, anyone can be bigoted in some small way -- me, you, Adam, Jerry, each of us. The seeking of reliable knowledge is a continuous effort in minds that I respect. Such application of reason aims to dispel innocent ignorance and find the best objective evidence about a given controversy.

Edited September 22, 2015 by william.scherk

[anthony]

It would be good to think that every newcomer Muslim to Europe and every second, third or fourth generation Muslim in Europe wanted no more than to assimilate, integrate, have small families like fellow Europeans and make a better life for himself while practising his faith fairly privately as do other religious around him. Much as most North American Muslims have done, only too happy to be in America. I don't doubt it usually begins that way in Europe. But its socio-politico-economical position lends itself to unemployment and lack of personal initiative, and there is always 'the dole' of some sort, and council housing. Any regulated welfare state is depressing enough to its long inhabitants; for alienated people, it will mean periods of hanging around in the street with others like you, bemoaning the rich and elite classes and other races that look down on you. Anger, hate, envy, and turning in to one's religion fanatically could be an outlet.

There is a link between being quite poor and disaffected - and the size of family, I think. Something that sociologists would have researched, I suppose. Also, in England I know, it's been always legal and acceptable for say a Bangladeshi or Pakistani to return 'home' to find a bride, who then follows him back to the UK - with an entourage of her own family members who all become British.

Too, I think of my mother, one of eight children of a struggling family in Egypt, Jews who were hardly free to move around and live and work where the parents chose. At 12 she was already a good seamstress.They weren't even Orthodox parents, so why have so many kids you can't afford? Does it give one a sense of presence, or permanence, or is a big, close family one of the only pleasures open to one in an alien country?

[anthony]

At the moment my impression is that you are showing me bad faith, or at the very least willfully misinterpreting my comments in this thread. I especially find unfair the note "Your fancy that every European Muslim is good, humble, and plain misunderstood or prejudiced against" ... as I do not believe my multiple remarks on OL show this to be true. I hope you can cool out and re-read my responses to you above with fresh eyes and a goal of understanding.

.

Bad faith, not really. But I have a query of impartiality.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism are religions. Time and again over years, I've noticed your quite amusing ridicule of "Gawd", "Evul" and religion, but pointedly of Christians and Christianity in all its ways.

However, on Islam and Muslims nary a word of criticism for their faith, qua faith. Why? Logically it's as irrational as any.

(Notwithstanding your clear loathing for ISIS and other gangs, but who hasn't?).

It is not that I only expect even-handedness comparing the two faiths - no, from a rational person, I expect far more. Of the two, it's undeniable that Christianity is by far, far the more pacifist in word and deed, or in conflicts and repressions anywhere.

Further, it is Christians who are innocents suffering under ISIS, where you've displayed more concern for the Kurds. Why then are you so protective of everything Muslim? (and remember, we've a long history of arguing over such things: the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, 'no-go' areas in France, insufficient condemnation by Muslims of Islamic terror, Palestinians and Israel - and this now, so I well know how defensive you are on the topic).

This is a very strange anomaly, William. It shows a bias for one religion, and one people, who sure has hell aren't under threat of extinction. (Which reminds me, that on Jews and Judaism you've always been most reticent).

So tell me, what is this thing for Islam/Muslims, which does not apply equally to others?

[Selene]

How fitting. For every subjective alarmism, there's subjective denialism.

Thanks Tony which was my point in reaction to the way William framed the issue.

A spurious and hateful cartoon against our great religion...

listen to this peaceful plea for peace from this humble "cleric and leader:"

I did not even realize it was a video...

I thought William was reacting to the video that I posted in Post Number 2 http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15471&page=1#entry239114

Apparently, however, it does expose the absolute agenda focus on one meme and one meme only.

I know that the numbers are seriously approaching zones where policy is being effected.

I will see what I can discover.

A...

[william.scherk]

I am interested in Will's evaluations: of whether a Muslim majority is ever possible in European countries; if so, whether they would automatically introduce sharia law; and if so, how catastrophic would it be to him if classic European cultures, ethnicities, rights, freedoms, languages, arts, sciences - and all the rest - were engulfed by a doctrine of submission. I don't disagree with "fascism", Adam, but I don't think it goes far enough. Don't you think, what Muslim 'immoderates' are gleefully contemplating, is totalitarianism.

I think that a 'Muslim Majority' is possible in three European states: Bosnia-Herzegovina, Albania, Kosovo. Is there 'Sharia Law' (however defined by Tony) in these places? No.

Which of the remaining EU (and applicant) countries are close to Muslim Majority? Not one besides Turkey. Does Turkey have 'Sharia Law'?

No.

Are there any countries in Europe that harbour un-integrated masses of undifferentiated 'Muslims'? I would say yes, from the Canadian perspective, but problems with integration does not translate to Muslim Majority.

One of the most disappointing and upsetting things I have read on this issue was Ed Hudgin's dismissal of inquiry into his 'numbers.' I demonstrated clearly that he had lifted the numbers directly and in order from the video we comment on here. I lost respect for Ed in proportion to the disrespect he showed for inquiry.

Okay, back to Tony's paragraph of challenges. Would a Muslim Majority European country of our nightmares 'automatically' introduce Sharia Law? Perhaps, but the scenario is already in the land of make-believe.

Tony sets it up like this: A Muslim Majority European country emerges alongside Bosnia, Turkey, Kosovo, Albania. It institutes Sharia Law. How might this affect 'classic' European cultures? Well, I don't know, my imagination only stretches so far. How would a European Muslim Majority Sharia state affect ethnicities, rights freedoms, languages, arts, sciences? I don't know. I have the Turkish, Bulgarian, Kosovan, Bosniak, Albanian examples in front of me. I have the EU treaties and basic law to the side.

I'd say any European state that moved to curtail human rights of non-Muslims, or that otherwise curbed, reduced, oppressed or otherwise affected individual rights -- would become an outlaw, and would have to withdraw from the Union.

I guess I don't see any catastrophe on the horizon. Maybe I am too ploddingly methodical in the realm of facts, maybe I cannot let my imagination soar.

Any other questions for me, Tony?

Adam, now that you have viewed the video in its entirety and tried to understand my objective objections, do you have further questions?

Edited October 4, 2015 by william.scherk

[william.scherk]

No good hiding behind "propaganda" and "bigotry", Will. I know it's your tactic to shoot the messenger and run for cover to avoid making a personal judgement call, or explain "catastrophe", as I asked of you.

Your unwarranted insult and psychologizing aside, I answered your query above to the best of my understanding. I will reiterate and simplify and summarize: the opening topic is ISLAM TAKING OVER EUROPE. That is the claimed catastrophe. Please take the time to re-read my two posts above, each of which quoted your remarks. If you don't wish to quote my own remarks in your attempted rebuttals, discussion goes nowhere.

(i.e. If so-and-so says this...well, everybody knows he's a liar, bigot...).

You are putting words in my mouth. I called Jerry by implication a bigot. I called no one a liar. If you want a discussion, I must insist that you quote my actual words in context. If you can't be bothered, neither can I. I can't imagine we would be having this type of non-discussion in a face-to-face encounter.

There are stone-cold facts from too many other sources that a non-skeptic can evaluate clearly.

Name two stone-cold facts that we both can evaluate, then. Please.

Your fancy that every European Muslim is good, humble, and plain misunderstood or prejudiced against, has long been overtaken by events.

Quote me writing something that matches your 'fancy.' Please.

In only a year, there are a proliferation of police reports of agitating Muslim radicals and criminals among the Muslim populations in only England, Belgium, Sweden and France to prompt great worry there.

Which have what to do with the claims I deny? I don't deny that the integration of Muslims in Europe is spotty in places, shitty in others, reasonable in others still.

But what is the function of agitating radicals and criminals to Muslim Majority?

Be sure of one thing - those numbers will not decrease. Simple Math, their proportions will increase. While Islam remains what it is - various things to different Muslims, at whim, it appears.

Oh, I can be sure at some level that the percentages of Muslims in certain European countries will increase. My objection to the propaganda in the video is clearly laid out.

My belief in "Innate fecundity", crap. It is "a fact", the religious-social culture of Catholics, Orthodox Jews - and Muslims - is often, usually, generally, going back centuries - to have big families

Well, this is the thing, isn't it. You appear to believe that newcomers to a society simply do not adapt. You seem to be suggesting that every Muslim family in say France has nine children or more. Please reread the Snopes article.

(And btw: You carefully misquoted me. I said: ""IF"... both rates remain steady...").

You are showing me bad faith, Tony. I am really sorry, but I am just not willing to engage with your psychologizing and dismissals of my actual arguments.

I will make it a project to do due diligence on each 'research shows' claim in the video. I'll try to wrap it up before the week is out.

I leave the door open to discussion with you, if you would please follow a suggestion: find something in the video which claim you wonder about, which claim raises your own methodological skepticism, whether or not the claim is true. Then apply your skills in research to test that claim. I don't like to leave on an angry note, so please be assured that I generally consider you be fair and just in your remarks -- even where I strongly disagree with you. I hope you take the time to re-read the two comments in which I explained my disagreements.

Edited October 5, 2015 by william.scherk

[Selene]

Adam, now that you have viewed the video in its entirety and tried to understand my objective objections, do you have further questions?

William, again, I thought it was a single cartoon.

I watched about thirty second's of the video and then left.

Therefore, I frankly, do not care what your evaluations of the video are.

I'm sure they were up to your normal standards.

I thought the "cartoon" was clever.

End of story.

I am more concerned with closing my country's southern border first and removing anyone who is in this country who has overstayed any of their work visa's, student visa's, etc., and, therefore, are, by definition, illegal.

Second, I am extremely interested in eliminating, by any means necessary, internal forces that are attempting to destroy what is left of our limited Constitutional republic's structure that still stands.

Next, I am extremely interested in structurally removing all individuals who have entered the US illegally two times (2X), or, more.

Finally, while all of the above actions are implemented, establishing a one time temporary amnesty for all individuals who voluntarily contact a specific "sunseted" web site "agency" that is established for one (1) year.

Then we can have an intelligent conversation about who stays and under what specific conditions.

A...

[william.scherk]

William, again, I thought it was a single cartoon.

I watched about thirty second's of the video and then left.

Therefore, I frankly, do not care what your evaluations of the video are.

I think this says it all, Jerry.