Sockpuppet Garbage

[KacyRay]

Brant; - What I do isn't a secret. Nor is it glamorous. But being one of the ship's department heads has its perks, fo sho.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Combat+Cargo+Officer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[KacyRay]

Wow, look at all this personal shit getting aired! T.D.= Tim, right?

It is not Tim.

Just a side note... lots of times when people use initials like that, it's specifically because they didn't want to name names publicly. But no, it isn't Tim.

Reminds me of this one time when I worked at Cicso's Cafe in Miami Springs. I was probably 21 then. I was in the kitchen when I casually asked a friend of mine "Hey, wasn't that you I saw outside the AA last week?"

God bless him... he just smiled and said "Nope". Then about 10 minutes later, when no one else was around, he said "Hey Kacy. You know what the second A in AA stands for, right?"

[KacyRay]

Just realized... T.D. could've been "Tim Dog". heh...

[9thdoctor]

Just realized... T.D. could've been "Tim Dog". heh...

Heh. You walked right into that one. I was expecting Serapis to. I knew T.D. was...let's call him Tyler Durden, since there's certainly a physical resemblance. It calls to mind one of my favorite memories of Rand-land, when Tyler, Serapis, and I went into a lion's den of Randroids meeting in Kendall back in the late nineties. This was the same group that earlier met in Aventura when, after a meeting Serapis adopted Sugar, that fearsome feline, then an innocent looking stray kitten. How we got (and stayed) on the invitation list is a mystery to me.

Tyler got into a one on one with the sponsor of the event, debating the defining issues of Peikoff vs. Kelley. His opponent was a 60ish long time Objectivist who later, upon retirement, moved to L.A. to be nearer the source, if you know what I mean. Tyler has a rare ability to speak extemporaneously with burning passion and a charisma that's quite beyond my humble gifts, and gave this Randroid an epic intellectual asskicking. The Randroid had tears in his eyes, and ended with a pathetic plea in a choking voice that we all come back to the true Objectivism. Seriously, I'm not making this up. The climax, or maybe punchline, of it all came moments later however. Another attendee, maybe a neutral party (I don't remember) asked Tyler what did he do. As in, for a living. "I'm a garbage man." Which was true, at the time. Aaahh, the stares. Like John Galt was among them, road to Emmaus, that kind of thing.

[KacyRay]

Holy shit... I never heard that story.

I remember when you guys were going to the SOAR meetings. I wish I'd have gone... don't remember exactly what was going on in my life at the time, but I'm sure it was chaotic and unstable.

I can understand why Tyler never told me the story. I'm a little surprised SB didn't.

[9thdoctor]

I can understand why Tyler never told me the story. I'm a little surprised SB didn't.

That points to another element of this story that made it memorable. Later Tyler told me that he was embarrassed, and felt that he should have added that he was a manager, not just a low-level garbage man. He felt like he'd been shot down in that moment. The point though is that when he said it it was with no hint of shame, just matter of factly, even proudly, like the truck driver of the valley in Atlas Shrugged, and my impression was that he'd scored big. Remember that Eric Hoffer kept working as a longshoreman even after becoming famous with The True Believer. The guy he trounced was a CPA, no doubt earning a good income, with framed degrees on his wall, and here was this dropout giving him a public schooling.

BTW, I ought to clarify, since this might be read by the parties involved, that their were two sponsors, one a long-time Objectivist who was, in spite of what I wrote above, not a Randroid. He was a reconverted ARIan, so, more like Diana Hsieh (aka Comrade Sonia) and not a robotic twit mouthing slogans and undigested formulations. The other sponsor was an art dealer, a recent convert to Objectivism, and probably the worst Randroid I've ever encountered. And I can't remember either of their names, though I'm sure if I saw them they would click. I couldn't even remember SOAR, funny that you remember that and you never attended. Didn't M. attend once? Ugh, I'm not sure, it was too long ago.

One of the regulars there was Steve Simpson, now of the Institute for Justice. I remember he and his wife announcing that they were leaving South Florida and moving to Washington to go to work there. I really liked him.

http://ij.org/staff/ssimpson

[KacyRay]

I remember I wanted to go... I just don't remember why I never did. It probably had to do with the fact that I was a much more comfort-zone oriented person back then and didn't leave the house unless I had to. Or, maybe I had to work (was still bartending/waiting tables at the time).

Now I'm wishing I had gone and seen that. Would've been good for a laugh. I remember Tyler actually made the first argument I'd heard against Rand's theory of Free Will. SB was arguing in the affirmative, and TD kept drilling with questions. I dismissed TD's argument at the time, but now I realize the merit in it. Bottom line - the questions were never answered satisfactorily, and I don't think they can be.

Yeah, he's a unique individual.

[KacyRay]

Kacy,

Here are some of my own thoughts on disrespect. These are conclusions I came to over my life, and some when I tried to figure out how to run a forum. I don't frame it as a trade like you do, although I agree with the intent--the default starting point of goodwill--underlying that frame. And I agree that trade is a good way to understand respect and disrespect on the cognitive level.

1. Disrespect implies rejection. And rejection hurts. Literally. There are fMRI scans that show the areas of the brain that light up when a person is rejected. These are identical regions as those for physical pain.

So you may not experience physical pain on being harshly rejected, but try to tell your brain that. This is one case where perception and reality are at odds.

I believe Rand instinctively knew this and why rejection was such a weapon in her hands, both in her fiction and in life. If she thought someone wronged her, it was rejection time. Both with insults and with outright telling the person to get away from her. She even invented her own jargon for it, "withdrawing sanction" and so on.

Inflicting pain is a form of power. Power corrupts, it always has. And since Rand was a human being, she was not immune. So her cracking the rejection whip grew over the years until the end where only Peikoff was left standing from the original Collective.

But that's not the worst. As the saying goes, God save a prophet from her disciples. Notice that Randroids who ape her and haughtily reject others never do so with the serenity of Roark's "But I don't think of you." At least Rand had him mean it, even if she did make Touhey suffer (I suspect with a great deal of satisfaction when she created that scene, to boot). Instead, their gestures always come with macho-like posturing and an eye toward the crowd of their peers for approval. Underneath, I believe they know their rejection stings their target--or at least they dearly hope so.

(btw - Approval lights up the pleasure areas of the brain, but that is another discussion.)

I am aware of this when I restrict a person on the forum or ban him. It's one of the reasons it takes me so long to do it. I don't like inflicting pain. And believe me, I get no long-term satisfaction from it. I would vastly prefer a douchebag to get it and start acting like a reasonable human being, even if he has called me a piece of shit. We can work out apologies and things like that when goodwill becomes the standard.

I police myself to make sure the instant surges of satisfaction from disciplining a person (which none of us can stop from happening as automatic responses) do not turn into something more long-lasting. I don't admire someone who gets glee from punishing others, who understands that rejection is a form of punishment, and who glories in it. When I reject someone from OL, the gross part is simply to get rid of a person with nasty behavior for the health of the forum--and I make sure this stays so inside myself by constant introspection.

I have found that this attitude has increased my own self-respect. In other words, by respecting the nature of respect and disrespect as processes of psychology and behavior in addition to being a normative statement, and rejecting macho thumping on my chest as I mercilessly trounce a villain before an oohing and aahing crowd, my subconscious seemed to choose the best from among that understanding and automatically apply it to me. It's weird, but that's how it has worked over the last few years.

2. Frankly, since I no longer value competitive discussions (except for good-natured banter, which I have a weakness for), I lost the habit of salivating for a good public trouncing. So now I have a really hard time resonating with certain posters. Everything they say or do is framed as proving them right and proving me (or whoever) wrong. That's where their disrespect comes from--they want to win, win, win, at all costs!

I want to say, "Stop it already. What are you doing? Just look at the idea and see how cool it is. Even if it's ultimately wrong, look behind it and see the cool intent there. Don't you see it? Maybe that intent can grow somewhere else."

After years of online posting, I know that nobody really cares if these cyber-gladiators win or lose at their silly little competitions. Not even they remember after a while. it's a loser's game all the way around, a game where ideas go to die amidst the bluster and noise. So when I discuss most anything with these people, I feel like the cliché image of two boats crossing in the dark without seeing each other.

In this case, I generally start ignoring them on substance and looking to the effect they have on forum's health.

3. Even before OL, I noticed that most of those who destroyed the projects I built started with disrespect towards me. But it was rarely disrespect in private. It was mostly disrespect before others involved in the project. And it always started small and grew as I put up with it. Basically, it was a form of taking power mentally before trying to get it physically.

I didn't understand this fully back when I made a rule for myself, but I did stumble across a very good rule. I decided if a person wanted to disrespect me behind my back, I could not control that, so let 'er fly. Fuck 'em.

But I could control matters if the person wanted to disrespect me to my face. I'm not speaking about when I have screwed up badly and need a dressing down from a person who actually cares. I'm talking about trolls and douchebags and people set on taking what I've got. In this case, I have several options, going from smacking the person real hard all the way down to just walking away and refusing to be a part of their lives.

I've done both extremes and lots of the middle, but the one thing I decided never to accept from myself anymore was just to stand there and take it, or stand there and justify myself to such a person. Sometimes, in my parallel adoption of the policy of acting with flexibility--up to a point (so I can benefit from common sense in addition to good principles), I might, at times, justify myself here on OL to someone who disrespects me, or ignore a bit, but it is for the benefit of the reader, never for the obnoxious person. And, as regular readers already know, when that happens, my passivity does not last all that long.

In my intimate life (especially close friendships), I have found this to be a pretty good policy, too. So long as a person respects me, I reciprocate in kind. Love actually grows from that rich soil. But once a person starts trying to humiliate me, either in private or before others, I cut it short, one way or the other. And if it repeats too much, I get that person out of my life.

4. I come from the South, so disrespect there means dueling time. Not literally anymore, but that attitude still remains, I have found that replacing that attitude with the ones above--ones I have thought through and now act on--has brought me much greater peace of mind. I no longer smolder and linger over slights, like you mentioned you have a problem with.

Also, and this is delicate, I know I don't have to put myself in unnecessary danger to deal with disrespect. This is not cowardice. It's figuring out how it works. There are perfectly good, effective, rational ways of stopping disrespect cold, thus actual dangerous physical fighting becomes a last resort for extreme cases like when violence or serious threat are also involved. (I've done my share of that when necessary, but I sure as hell didn't like it. Even the times when I've come out way on top, I've still gotten busted up pretty badly and I've learned the hard way that physical therapy sucks big-time.)

I don't know if my comments will be of any use to you, but I hope they give you some food for thought. You have my best wishes. I do not want to see you suffer, especially suffer anxiety.

Michael

MSK,

Your comments on rejected are well-received and useful... I just don't think that the issue of disrespect is an issue of rejection. Neither necessarily involves the other, I don't think.

In fact, lots of people endure disrespect at the hands of spouses and friends on a daily basis. It's usually an integral part of a typical dysfunctional relationship. I remember being appalled at my own daughter's relationship with her b/f... they spoke to each other like they were pieces of garbage, yet they were together for 10 years (and counting, maybe? I don't know... I have ceased involving myself in that drama).

I think disrespect is exactly as I've described it - a failure to treat someone with due respect... either actively treating someone in such a way that disregards their demonstrated abilities and/or value or neglecting to treat them with such recognition at the appropriate time.

An example of the former might be - unprovoked insults to a friend or friendly acquaintance

An example of the latter might be - you accept an invitation for dinner at a friends house. After enjoying a meal his wife spent time preparing, you just get up and say "Well, gotta go." and leave without a single word of gratitude. (Or, more commonly, to fail to express gratitude to one's own wife for the effort she puts into nurturing you every day).

Neither of those examples involves rejection, but both amount to brazen disrespect.

But again.. your comment does contain valuable insight and well-earned nuggets of wisdom.

By the way... physical therapy sucks, yes. But physical wounds of battle typically heal much more quickly and completely then psychological wounds associated with having walked away with your tail tucked between your legs. Those normally don't ever heal.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Neither of those examples involves rejection, but both amount to brazen disrespect.

Kacy,

I disagree.

Brazen disrespect, especially of the kind you mentioned, is a total rejection of the person's goodwill, and that's just for starters.

This can get to be a long discussion, but I seem to have a wider definition of rejection than you do. In my version, you can have a relationship with a person, even keep that person as a psychological prisoner, and still reject fundamental things about him that he seeks or expects approval for--and you manifest this with acts of brazen disrespect (as in your examples).

Cults, for example, do this all the time. In fact, the rejection as shown by such acts, which the target hopes to turn into approval one day, is one of the bonds imprisoning him.

I would even say it's part of the glue that holds dysfunctional relationships together.

Getting back to your meaning (as I imagine you mean it), an act of brazen disrespect is still a total rejection of the expectations of the target--at the very least. It's on purpose, too.

In my experience, when it's only an honest mistake, there is usually little to no macho posturing and stubbornness about being right.

Michael

EDIT: I just had an extra thought on this. When you reject a part of someone and you frame it with indifference or wish to humiliate, that can sting just as badly as rejecting the entire person. In this sense, I consider disrespect to be rejecting a part or whole of a person through an act of ill will that has the intent to show how unimportant the person--or that part--is to the disrespecter, or to humiliate him,

The rejection part hurts, but I agree the embedded hostility part does, too. This can easily transmute into anger and become expressed by the person getting royally pissed off, but that's another story.

[KacyRay]

I guess the rub here is that I don't quite know what you mean by "rejection". I hear the "rejection of a person's goodwill" part, but my definition of disrespect is to fail to treat a person with respect. It's basically that simple.

I guess that, in a sense, it requires the rejection of some aspect of that person (whatever aspect of them happens to merit respect), but I think it would be more accurate to say it requires the complete disregard for it. To disregard something or someone is not necessarily to reject them.

For example, if I fail to express appreciation to my wife for the effort she puts in to preparing a fantastic dinner... I haven't rejected her at all. I've simply failed to regard the value she provides me. I've failed to regard her effort as valuable. Speaking in objectivist terms - I've failed to provide her the emotional reward she merits in return for the value she has offered me.

As I was telling SB earlier - I see respect as an earned value. To disrespect someone is to fail to offer that internalized recognition one has earned.

I just don't see "rejection" as having an integrated role. But it does seem that, while you and I both appear to abhor the idea of disrespect, we have diverging views on what exactly it is. But I suspect that, even with those diverging concepts and definitions, the resulting behavior is pretty much the same. I would be very surprised if our different concepts of disrespect resulted in significantly different manifestations.

[Guyau]

.

Hi Kacy,

Glad you are online here and glad you are in the world.

Stephen

[KacyRay]

Stephen,

Thanks brother. Good to make your acquaintance.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

To disrespect someone is to fail to offer that internalized recognition one has earned.

Kacy,

Is not "internalized recognition" approval?

Not quibbling, just asking to see what comes from your viewpoint.

Michael

[KacyRay]

Kacy,

Is not "internalized recognition" approval?

Not at all. Short example - a few years back I owned a Belgian Malinois. Loved that dog. But one day I woke up very, very hungover and found that she had pissed on the carpet.

I wanted to "send a message to her" by holding her face close to the stain, pointing, and sternly reminding her that "No!" (because dogs sometimes forget!)

But she saw it coming and hauled ass into her crate. I looked in there and demanded that she come out. She refused. I reached in there to grab her collar and felt a very quick, unexpected feeling on my hand. I backed away (still half drunk) and looked at my hand which was now dripping blood.

I then looked down to see Roxanne (my dog) sitting directly in front of me looking up at me. If you don't think a dog knows how to apologize with their eyes, you've never seen this look from a dog.

Anyway, I couldn't help but smile and kneel down and let her know it was alright. But I never forget what I learned that morning - respect the jaws. I learned a new respect for the jaws of a Belgian Malinois.

To illustrate this point, I would quote Tony Soprano's confrontation with a very upset Christopher Moltisanti:

Christopher: I used to love you!

Tony: You might not love me anymore, and that's too bad, but you will respect me!

Admiration, acceptance, love... none of those are necessary components of respect. I didn't like getting bit at all... but I sure do possess an internal recognition of what those jaws are capable of, and I treated her accordingly from that point forward.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Kacy,

Now I'm confused. How did the dog's jaws that you respect earn that respect?

In one moment, respect for you is a moral trade that must be earned, and in another, it is being reasonably cautious with a dangerous reality. Even another, with Soprano, it is the equivalent of an animal growling a threat of attack.

I not only think you and I are using different meanings for respect, I believe you are using different meanings for different contexts and changing them at will.

btw - I'm more than cool with different definitions for the same word--just look at any dictionary. But I think it's fudging to change meanings in the middle of a context to argue a point.

I also use "respect" to mean being reasonably cautious with a dangerous reality. And even to growl out a threat. But we were discussing another meaning of respect--a moral one, which to me comes with a psychological reality. Especially disrespect.

It's a great story, though. I love dogs. And you tell stories well.

Michael

[KacyRay]

Kacy,

Now I'm confused. How did the dog's jaws that you respect earn that respect?

In one moment, respect for you is a moral trade that must be earned, and in another, it is being reasonably cautious with a dangerous reality. Even another, with Soprano, it is the equivalent of an animal growling a threat of attack.

I not only think you and I are using different meanings for respect, I believe you are using different meanings for different contexts and changing them at will.

btw - I'm more than cool with different definitions for the same word--just look at any dictionary. But I think it's fudging to change meanings in the middle of a context to argue a point.

I also use "respect" to mean being reasonably cautious with a dangerous reality. And even to growl out a threat. But we were discussing another meaning of respect--a moral one, which to me comes with a psychological reality. Especially disrespect.

It's a great story, though. I love dogs. And you tell stories well.

Michael

Thanks - I do alright with stories, I suppose.

I think it's important to remember how I'm defining respect: A internalize recognition of someone's demonstrated capabilities or value.

Feelings of respect and demonstrations of respect are two different things, so if there's any distinction in context to be drawn, I'd say that's the only one. But if you notice, every example I've provided to you thus far involves one person either recognizing (and acting on the recognition of) or failing to recognize (or act on the recognition of) someone else's demonstrated capabilities or value.

So I don't think I'm switching contests.

In the case of the dog - I knew that dogs bite when cornered. Honestly, it didn't concern me. There was no way I thought it would tear my hand up the way it did. Yes, when Roxanne gave me my little wake-up call, from that point forward, I knew that - whatever means of discipline I chose - it would not involve sticking my hand in her crate to pull her out when she was scared.

In the case of Soprano - he was making clear that, while his nephew may by rejecting him, it would not change the fact that Tony was to by respected (i.e. his capabilities were unchanged).

In the case of Captain Crunch - his behavior since that exchange pretty much shows that he realizes that I'm not going to be told how to run my shop. That was all I really cared about. Yell at me all you want, but respect my position.

In the case of meeting strangers on the internet, you might say it's a bit different... my contention is that a socially healthy person would recognize a strangers potential value - until and unless the stranger demonstrates otherwise. I'd say that is why you (and just about everyone here) tend to welcome newcomers graciously, and you continue treating them that way until they demonstrate that they are only here to troll. You internally recognize their potential value. This is consistent with my definition. Your behavior is evidence that you are, by my definition, a person who is socially intelligent and grasps the concept of respect.

I should point out here that the Soprano example might have been a little misleading, so I will clarify - one need not threaten another person with a demonstration of one's capabilities in order to invoke respect. I interpreted that exchange not as TS threatening Christopher, but as an example of him reminding Christopher that respect is not dependent on love or affection. That was my point in citing that particular exchange.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I think it's important to remember how I'm defining respect: A internalize recognition of someone's demonstrated capabilities or value.

Kacy,

In other words, you think the Boston marathon bombers are deserving of respect as terrorists?

They certainly demonstrated their capability, so that fits your definition.

But I don't respect them at all.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

I think it's important to remember how I'm defining respect: A internalize recognition of someone's demonstrated capabilities or value.

Kacy,

In other words, you think the Boston marathon bombers are deserving of respect as terrorists?

They certainly demonstrated their capability, so that fits your definition.

But I don't respect them at all.

Michael

I don't think that's quite fair, Michael. You left out "value." Kacy didn't say he valued terrorists did he? Value always presupposes a valuer. As for capabilities, you can respect terrorists so they don't kill you.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Brant,

The last time I looked, the word "or" was not inclusive.

The phrase is "capabilities or value," not "capabilities and value."

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

I think it's important to remember how I'm defining respect: A internalize recognition of someone's demonstrated capabilities or value.

Kacy,

In other words, you think the Boston marathon bombers are deserving of respect as terrorists?

They certainly demonstrated their capability, so that fits your definition.

But I don't respect them at all.

Michael

These Chechen brothers are loose cannons.

[KacyRay]

Michael,

In a very strict sense... yes, they have demonstrated a respect for what that guy was capable of. They didn't just walk up to him and say "Hey there bub, you gotta come with us!". No, instead they shut down the city of Boston and used every measure at their disposal to hunt and bring him down. They don't do that for everyone. This guy merited it (in the strictest sense).

Again, in this case, the word "respect" is used in the strictest sense (as one would respect the jaws of a caged tiger)... but the word does apply.

I was watching a UFC fight they other night, and I had to laugh... about 3 minutes into the first round, the announcer started saying "Both fighters showing a great deal of respect for one another"... he said it two or three times, and I chuckled and said to the guy sitting next to me "Is that what they're calling it now, when neither wants to get close enough to the other to throw a punch?"

But again, it does describe "respect" exactly as I have defined it.

It's demonstrated capability and/or value.

[KacyRay]

To be clear - no one should respect the Boston bombers' values or actions as terrorists. They are deserving of nothing short of full condemnation.

What they police did demonstrate respect for were their "jaws" (metaphorically speaking). They did not approach these guys lightly. Even when they had the one 19 year old kid cornered, they did not treat him like a 19 year old kid. They treated him like the most dangerous of criminals. They took every precaution. They demonstrated an internalized recognition of what he is capable of.

Just another example of why respect is not dependent on love or affection. Or, in this case, an admiration for ones values.

[KacyRay]

Kacy,

.....

But I don't respect them at all.

Michael

Not their values, of course not.

But their capabilities... I'll bet if one of them sprang out of your closet and started making demands, you'd probably treat them differently than if it was the ice cream man offering you a free cone. I'd be willing to bet that, internally, you would recognize what these guys are capable of, and you would probably treat them accordingly (depending on what options you had available).

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

... the word "respect" is used in the strictest sense...

Kacy,

OK.

Let's look at the "strictest sense." The following is from The Free Dictionary: respect.

This is the first set of definitions credited to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000.

re·spect (r-spkt)

tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects

1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.

2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.

3. To relate or refer to; concern.

n.

1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See Synonyms at regard.

2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.

3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.

4. respects Polite expressions of consideration or deference: pay one's respects.

5. A particular aspect, feature, or detail: In many respects this is an important decision.

6. Usage Problem Relation; reference. See Usage Note at regard.

Deferential regard? Esteem? Honor? Consideration? Appreciation?

Hell, I see approval all over the place in most of those definitions. So I'll stay with my understanding of respect for general use and consider yours for very specific contexts.

btw - I was being a smartass with the terrorist thing. (Brant knows me already. )

After telling you it was fudging for you to change meanings in the middle of a context, I did precisely that on a loaded phrase to see if you would catch it.

You came close enough, so in my mind it counts as a catch.

Michael

[KacyRay]

Yeah, I guess I had deliberately avoided using a dictionary to describe it, preferring to drill down to the essence of what I see respect as...

I've learned what respect is: An internalize recognition of another's demonstrated abilities and/or value.

I've learned that to disrespect someone is to either fail to internally recognize their demonstrated abilities and/or value (which is bad) or to fail to demonstrate the internally recognition of that ability or value (which is worse).

Quote


re·spect (r-spkt)

tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.

n.
1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See Synonyms at regard.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
4. respects Polite expressions of consideration or deference: pay one's respects.
5. A particular aspect, feature, or detail: In many respects this is an important decision.
6. Usage Problem Relation; reference. See Usage Note at regard.

To feel (an internalized recognition) or show deferential regard for (demonstrated capabilities and/or value)

Notice there no necessary aspect of admiration, affection, or acceptance there? You can show deferential regard for a dangerous situation just as well as you can for an admirable one.

If you refuse to understand or acknowledge the fact that people are deserving of the respect they've earned, you will do so at your own peril.

I think I've been pretty consistent with my examples.

And yeah... didn't catch the ol' context switcheroo. Rascal!