Expectations of World War


dennislmay

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Dennis May wrote:

That is a lot of explosives and lots of time required on the ground to blow it up using ground forces. Iran has a huge army - I would hate to be on the ground there very long.

end quote

“Dune, The Sands of the Negev,” in 3D By James Cameron. To be released the spring of 2012.

Character analysis of Benjamin. As Benjamin grows in influence, he begins a holy war against Harkonnen rule of the planet Islam under his new name, Muad’Dib, or in Hebrew, BiBi. However, Bibi becomes aware through his prescience that, if he is not careful, the Persians will extend their jihad against all the known universe, which Bibi describes as a humanity-spanning subconscious effort to avoid genetic stagnation. How do I keep the other nations of Kookdom out of this conflict,” he wonders? “The Ama-ricans are beyond persuasion with their current Marxist leader but perhaps I can trick their Sandworm into doing the heavy lifting? For that I will need Ama-rican Hebes and a vision of The Holocaust.”

Background. In the series, the sandworms called Shai-Hulud Military among the Fremen of the desert planet Arrakis are worshiped as Patriotic and as manifestations of "the earth deity of Fremen hearth superstitions." The Fremen believe that the actions of the sandworms are the direct actions of God, and so the worms have been given numerous titles such as the "Great Maker", the "Worm who is God," and “The Great Satan’s Mighty Arm.” Virtually indestructible and with indefinite lifespans of potentially thousands of years, the giant sandworms are also referred to as the "Old Man of the Desert", "Grandfather of the Desert" and “The Ama-rican Military Might.” Do you hear that subsonic rumble? It is the sound of freedom.

I grow weary. I can't tell if that is funny or not. All the above lifted and tricked up, from Wikipedia.

Peter Taylor

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Here is something I've never heard talked about - truck size shaped charge bunker busters. Drive the truck or tank sized device on site, blow it up, repeat. It might take several shots at the same holes before you penetrate adequately. I suspect such a weapon would have to be very large to reach the required depth. The large l/d of bunker busters within a certain velocity range gets them to the depth needed. A shape charge would burn its way through with large l/d jets of metal. Once there is a hole you could pour in the liquid explosives.

A few seconds on a calculator to scale things suggests that a shaped charge warhead the size of a truck or tank [needs to be raised off the ground] could indeed penetrate as deeply as a bunker buster bomb. You would still need to do something after penetration because unlike hitting a tank with a warhead the energy left after the penetration isn't going to be enough to do any good. Just a low tech alternative - unlikely to be used - but an alternative.

Dennis

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I got this off a link to the Glenn Beck Show. NO JOKE. The end is near.

Take heed. Peter

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044, 1 HB0085 HOUSE BILL NO. HB0085

Government continuity. Sponsored by: Representative(s) Miller, Burkhart, Davison, Edmonds, Jaggi, Kroeker, McKim, Peasley, Quarberg and Teeters and Senator(s) Jennings and Peterson.

A BILL for 1 AN ACT relating to governmental studies; providing for a

2 task force to study governmental continuity in case of a

3 disruption in federal government operations; providing for

4 a report; providing appropriations; and providing for an

5 effective date. 6

7 Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Wyoming: 8

9 Section 1. 10

11 (a) There is created a government continuity task

12 force consisting of the following members: 13

14 (i) Two (2) senators appointed by the president

15 of the senate;

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 2 HB0085

1, 2 (ii) Two (2) representatives appointed by the

3 speaker of the house; 4

5 (iii) The director of the department of homeland

6 security or his designee; 7

8 (iv) The attorney general or his designee; 9

10 (v) The adjutant general or his designee; 11

12 (vi) The director of the department of

13 agriculture or his designee; and 14

15 (vii) The director of the oil and gas

16 conservation commission or his designee. 17

18 (b) The task force shall study potential impacts on

19 Wyoming of, and preparation of the government and the

20 people of Wyoming for, a potential disruption of the United

21 States federal government including, but not limited to: 22

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 3 HB0085

1 (i) Potential effects of the rapid decline of

2 the United States dollar and the ability to quickly provide

3 an alternative currency; 4

5 (ii) Potential effects of a situation in which

6 the federal government has no effective power or authority

7 over the people of the United States; 8

9 (iii) Potential effects of a constitutional

10 crisis; 11

12 (iv) Coordination between the governor's office,

13 Wyoming national guard and any federal military in Wyoming; 14

15 (v) Potential effects of a disruption in food

16 distribution; 17

18 (vi) Potential effects of a disruption in energy

19 distribution. 20

21 © The task force shall submit a report and

22 recommendations with respect to the issues specified in

23 subsection (b) of this section to the governor and the

24 legislature by December 1, 2012.

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 4 HB0085

1, 2 (d) Members of the task force who are legislators

3 shall be paid salary, per diem and mileage as provided in

4 W.S. 28-5-101 for their official duties as members of the

5 task force. Members of the task force who are state

6 employees shall not be paid any additional salary for their

7 official duties as members of the task force. The

8 legislative service office shall staff the task force. 9

10 (e) There is appropriated from the general fund: 11

12 (i) Eighteen thousand dollars ($18,000.00) to

13 the legislative service office for purposes of this act and

14 payment of salary, per diem and mileage for legislative

15 task force members; 16

17 (ii) Fourteen thousand dollars ($14,000.00) to

18 the governor's office for payment of authorized per diem

19 and mileage for non legislative task force members. 20

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 5 HB0085

1 Section 2. This act is effective immediately upon

2 completion of all acts necessary for a bill to become law

3 as provided by Article 4, Section 8 of the Wyoming

4 Constitution. 5, 6 (END)

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I got this off a link to the Glenn Beck Show. NO JOKE. The end is near.

Take heed. Peter

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044, 1 HB0085 HOUSE BILL NO. HB0085

Government continuity. Sponsored by: Representative(s) Miller, Burkhart, Davison, Edmonds, Jaggi, Kroeker, McKim, Peasley, Quarberg and Teeters and Senator(s) Jennings and Peterson.

A BILL for 1 AN ACT relating to governmental studies; providing for a

2 task force to study governmental continuity in case of a

3 disruption in federal government operations; providing for

4 a report; providing appropriations; and providing for an

5 effective date. 6

7 Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Wyoming: 8

9 Section 1. 10

11 (a) There is created a government continuity task

12 force consisting of the following members: 13

14 (i) Two (2) senators appointed by the president

15 of the senate;

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 2 HB0085

1, 2 (ii) Two (2) representatives appointed by the

3 speaker of the house; 4

5 (iii) The director of the department of homeland

6 security or his designee; 7

8 (iv) The attorney general or his designee; 9

10 (v) The adjutant general or his designee; 11

12 (vi) The director of the department of

13 agriculture or his designee; and 14

15 (vii) The director of the oil and gas

16 conservation commission or his designee. 17

18 (b) The task force shall study potential impacts on

19 Wyoming of, and preparation of the government and the

20 people of Wyoming for, a potential disruption of the United

21 States federal government including, but not limited to: 22

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 3 HB0085

1 (i) Potential effects of the rapid decline of

2 the United States dollar and the ability to quickly provide

3 an alternative currency; 4

5 (ii) Potential effects of a situation in which

6 the federal government has no effective power or authority

7 over the people of the United States; 8

9 (iii) Potential effects of a constitutional

10 crisis; 11

12 (iv) Coordination between the governor's office,

13 Wyoming national guard and any federal military in Wyoming; 14

15 (v) Potential effects of a disruption in food

16 distribution; 17

18 (vi) Potential effects of a disruption in energy

19 distribution. 20

21 © The task force shall submit a report and

22 recommendations with respect to the issues specified in

23 subsection (b) of this section to the governor and the

24 legislature by December 1, 2012.

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 4 HB0085

1, 2 (d) Members of the task force who are legislators

3 shall be paid salary, per diem and mileage as provided in

4 W.S. 28-5-101 for their official duties as members of the

5 task force. Members of the task force who are state

6 employees shall not be paid any additional salary for their

7 official duties as members of the task force. The

8 legislative service office shall staff the task force. 9

10 (e) There is appropriated from the general fund: 11

12 (i) Eighteen thousand dollars ($18,000.00) to

13 the legislative service office for purposes of this act and

14 payment of salary, per diem and mileage for legislative

15 task force members; 16

17 (ii) Fourteen thousand dollars ($14,000.00) to

18 the governor's office for payment of authorized per diem

19 and mileage for non legislative task force members. 20

2012 STATE OF WYOMING 12LSO-0044 5 HB0085

1 Section 2. This act is effective immediately upon

2 completion of all acts necessary for a bill to become law

3 as provided by Article 4, Section 8 of the Wyoming

4 Constitution. 5, 6 (END)

The alternative currency part caught my ear when Glenn Beck mentioned it this morning. I would like to see a large number of states allow private currencies and actively fight the fraud being run by the federal government - arresting federal agents attempting to enforce federal reserve notes as legal tender.

Dennis

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I would like to see a large number of states allow private currencies and actively fight the fraud being run by the federal government - arresting federal agents attempting to enforce federal reserve notes as legal tender.

I should clarify that federal agents should be actively prevented from arresting anyone for issuing competing currencies. Counterfeiting is a form of fraud - issuing alternative currency is not fraud and should not be illegal. The federal government has no business enforcing the monopoly claim of a private currency issuer like the Federal Reserve. The United States has not issued legal tender since the creation of the Federal Reserve.

Dennis

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Beck's monologue for his TV show opened with a discussion of the Wyoming bill.

I think he's right about indifference being at the root of letting the power-mongers grow. And the result just might be the collapse of the federal government. Or such an encroachment that revolts will rise up. A state getting prepared is not a good sign.

It's funny, but I see his reasoning perfectly--from the headline writer who got fired for the chink in the armor thing to the media mocking the Wyoming bill. These show why the power mongers are growing.

I don't want to get sappy (like Glenn implies) and say love is the answer, but it sure as hell has a part. If you don't love human beings as a default attitude, why should you care about injustice in society? The fact is you won't.

The attitude of indifference to injustice when others get hammered by it will not stand up to tyrants. But the tyrants care. They're the ones doing it. And they have a strong ally.

I love Glenn's new phrase to describe that ally -- Jellyfish Capitalism.

That is exactly what happens when you remove morality from business.

I am seeing more and more that freedom only works for people who are interested in being good. When people become indifferent, they eventually lose their freedom.

Here's the monologue for anyone interested. Glenn published it on The Blaze so the general public can see it.

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Michael

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I am seeing more and more that freedom only works for people who are interested in being good.

The reason why many cultures are not ready for minimal government much less market anarchy. You have to have good people, an appropriate culture, and an economic/political system compatible with supporting that culture and its security needs. Nation building in cultures not capable of freedom is just money down the toilet. You can nation re-build if the proper elements were recently in place. If the people and culture have never supported nor had a history of any of the supporting elements of freedom you are generations away from a stable solution.

Freedom doesn't work just anywhere and can be lost when the any of the elements supporting it are neglected.

I am glad to see that some of talk radio and Beck recognize that the mainstream media is a leading source of problems. The only way you take away their power is to deny them access to newsmakers [newsmakers need to avoid them] and audience by everyone going to alternative media.

Dennis

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I am seeing more and more that freedom only works for people who are interested in being good.

The reason why many cultures are not ready for minimal government much less market anarchy. You have to have good people, an appropriate culture, and an economic/political system compatible with supporting that culture and its security needs. Nation building in cultures not capable of freedom is just money down the toilet. You can nation re-build if the proper elements were recently in place. If the people and culture have never supported nor had a history of any of the supporting elements of freedom you are generations away from a stable solution.

Freedom doesn't work just anywhere and can be lost when the any of the elements supporting it are neglected.

I am glad to see that some of talk radio and Beck recognize that the mainstream media is a leading source of problems. The only way you take away their power is to deny them access to newsmakers [newsmakers need to avoid them] and audience by everyone going to alternative media.

Dennis

In the age of asymmetric warfare and weapons of mass destruction the catch-22 in the failure of nation building is the endless requirement of dealing with failed cultures lashing out. There is no good or quick solution. George W. Bush wished for a solution but the policy would have required 2-3 generations to work and in our welfare vote buying culture that can't happen. Endless war and the collapse of the welfare state will be the result.

Dennis

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Last night on the Mark R Levin radio show a special forces guy called in and mentioned that Israel could put bunker buster bombs on missiles and bypass the aircraft range and refueling issues. That might be difficult for the largest size bunker busters and the smallest ones don't penetrate very deep. Mating small bunker busters with nukes and putting them on missiles would give capability and range but would leak more radiation than a deep bunker buster with nukes. Israel does not have the big planes to haul the large ones in any case [modify commercial, refueling or cargo aircaft?]. The special forces guy seemed to think Iran would have air defenses precluding the easy use of aircraft in this kind of attack. He implied it was more likely secret capabilities or missiles would be used instead of a straight forward use of aircraft. In any case special forces ground personel would verify the damage if possible.

Dennis

Dennis:

Just saw this today. The "Rail Gun" is now getting down to the sizing level where it will be deployable.

Interesting concept to use to "thread the needle" for the Iranian situation.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/military-video-captures-destructive-power-of-navys-newest-rail-gun/

Adam

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Last night on the Mark R Levin radio show a special forces guy called in and mentioned that Israel could put bunker buster bombs on missiles and bypass the aircraft range and refueling issues. That might be difficult for the largest size bunker busters and the smallest ones don't penetrate very deep. Mating small bunker busters with nukes and putting them on missiles would give capability and range but would leak more radiation than a deep bunker buster with nukes. Israel does not have the big planes to haul the large ones in any case [modify commercial, refueling or cargo aircaft?]. The special forces guy seemed to think Iran would have air defenses precluding the easy use of aircraft in this kind of attack. He implied it was more likely secret capabilities or missiles would be used instead of a straight forward use of aircraft. In any case special forces ground personel would verify the damage if possible.

Dennis

Dennis:

Just saw this today. The "Rail Gun" is now getting down to the sizing level where it will be deployable.

Interesting concept to use to "thread the needle" for the Iranian situation.

http://www.theblaze....ewest-rail-gun/

Adam

A friend of mine was the primary engineer for the Air Force rail gun at Eglin AFB [1986-1987]. There continues to be interest but I heard rumors weeks ago that funding is about to be killed along with many other innovative projects. Social spending to buy votes - cuts through inflation while growing in $$ - military spending: cuts every way they can until war errupts.

There are many game changing R&D systems that have been worked and reworked since the 50s that always get cut before being deployed. Diverting money to buy votes kills the work till the next resurrection. With every cycle of destruction most of the expertise is lost for good. I know of several systems that have been gone through birth and death 4-5 times. The most famous smaller project was called Have Block back in the day - now known as CBU-97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon in one implementation,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-97_Sensor_Fuzed_Weapon

Cancelled and reborn dozens of times in short time span. 13 consecutive miracles when it works was the fear factor that kept getting it killed - but it works very well.

Dennis

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Dennis:

Very nice technology. We have come a long way from the British long bow as artillery!

Adam

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For some reason Mark Antony's words come to mind:

Blood and destruction shall be so in use

And dreadful objects so familiar

That mothers shall but smile when they behold

Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;

All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:

And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,

With Ate by his side come hot from hell,

Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice

Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;

That this foul deed shall smell above the earth

With carrion men, groaning for burial.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Dennis:

Very nice technology. We have come a long way from the British long bow as artillery!

Adam

The laser stuff is very interesting but it has been cut numerous times as well. There are rumors of a new stealth bomber and various drones in the works but I also heard the drones were being cut.

Dennis

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Dennis:

I am almost finished reading The Mask of Command by John Kegan, [i read his prior book The Face of Battle].

In chapter 4, entitled False Heroic: Hitler as Supreme Commander, after covering Alexander, Wellington and Grant in the first three chapters, he writes about Hitler's four years of front line service as a messenger runner, wounded three times, once almost fatally and blinded for days in another incident that::

"This index of agony, unparalleled in the experience of any previous military generation and scarcely
credible at all to the late twentieth-century mind, was not at all out of the ordinary among regimental
armies that had fought at the front since 1914 had, if wounded are counted with killed, suffered 100
per cent casualties, and by the end some units and formations would have suffered over 200 per
cent casualties. The Newfoundland Regiment of the British Army suffered nearly 100 per cent
casualties on the first day of the battle of the Somme, July 1, 1916,, while the 7th Royal Sussex
Regiment, November 11, 1918, counted among its officers only two of the twenty-eight who had gone
to France with it in May, 1915. Four out of nine Frenchmen who served with fighting units between
1914 and 1918 were killed or wounded; nearly 2 million, perhaps as many as 4 million , out of 35
million German males lost their lives in the same period. If those of military age are reckoned as
15 million, it may be seen that one out of four of that generation was buried somewhere in France,
Belgium, Russia or the Balkans.
...in a battle against the British, French and Belgian in Flanders which came to be known in Germany
as the 'Massacre of the Innocents' (
Kindermord bei Ypern
).
Of the 3,600 men of the 16th Bavarian Reserve(usually known as the List Regiment, after its commander,
killed on the second day of the first battle0, 349 died in the attack. Four days later, only 611 survived
unwounded. Hitler's own company of 250 men had been reduced by early December to 42.
The
Kindermord bei Ypern
had a profound effect on German feeling, comparable to that to be exerted
in Britain two years later by the massacre of the Pals of the Somme. Between a third and a half of the
infantry of nine divisions, about 40,000 men, were killed or wounded in twenty days of fighting.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Can you even imagine the effect that these kinds of casualties would have on the American mind and psyche in a modern context.

Gettysburg, and its impact, is a battle that I have studied all my life. It was the worst battle, I believe in terms of casualties over so short a time in American history between 46,000 and 51,000 in three (3) days.

Compared to what happened in three days in WWI it is close. However, it was an aberration rather than the routine of WWI.

Insanity.

Adam

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Dennis: I am almost finished reading The Mask of Command by John Kegan, [i read his prior book The Face of Battle]. In chapter 4, entitled False Heroic: Hitler as Supreme Commander, after covering Alexander, Wellington and Grant in the first three chapters, he writes about Hitler's four years of front line service as a messenger runner, wounded three times, once almost fatally and blinded for days in another incident that::
"This index of agony, unparalleled in the experience of any previous military generation and scarcely
credible at all to the late twentieth-century mind, was not at all out of the ordinary among regimental
armies that had fought at the front since 1914 had, if wounded are counted with killed, suffered 100
per cent casualties, and by the end some units and formations would have suffered over 200 per
cent casualties. The Newfoundland Regiment of the British Army suffered nearly 100 per cent
casualties on the first day of the battle of the Somme, July 1, 1916,, while the 7th Royal Sussex
Regiment, November 11, 1918, counted among its officers only two of the twenty-eight who had gone
to France with it in May, 1915. Four out of nine Frenchmen who served with fighting units between
1914 and 1918 were killed or wounded; nearly 2 million, perhaps as many as 4 million , out of 35
million German males lost their lives in the same period. If those of military age are reckoned as
15 million, it may be seen that one out of four of that generation was buried somewhere in France,
Belgium, Russia or the Balkans.
...in a battle against the British, French and Belgian in Flanders which came to be known in Germany
as the 'Massacre of the Innocents' (
Kindermord bei Ypern
).
Of the 3,600 men of the 16th Bavarian Reserve(usually known as the List Regiment, after its commander,
killed on the second day of the first battle0, 349 died in the attack. Four days later, only 611 survived
unwounded. Hitler's own company of 250 men had been reduced by early December to 42.
The
Kindermord bei Ypern
had a profound effect on German feeling, comparable to that to be exerted
in Britain two years later by the massacre of the Pals of the Somme. Between a third and a half of the
infantry of nine divisions, about 40,000 men, were killed or wounded in twenty days of fighting.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Can you even imagine the effect that these kinds of casualties would have on the American mind and psyche in a modern context. Gettysburg, and its impact, is a battle that I have studied all my life. It was the worst battle, I believe in terms of casualties over so short a time in American history between 46,000 and 51,000 in three (3) days. Compared to what happened in three days in WWI it is close. However, it was an aberration rather than the routine of WWI. Insanity. Adam

The people in the US no longer have any realistic sense of what total war would be like. My father lost 5 first cousins in WWII which relative to European losses in WWI and WWII is still very light causalties. I know many people who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan - the only injury was a guy who broke his leg when a motorcycle he was building from parts shipped to him by friends backfired and the kick starter came back and bit him. I have only heard of 2 deaths in North Missouri - one was a girl killed by a dozer snapping a guy wire during training in Kansas, the other was from an IED in Iraq. Local momuments are in every county seat around here - WWI and WWII names combined are generally about 150 per county. Korea and Vietnam combined about another 20-25. 1-2 each from other conflicts.

In total war we only have a week or so worth of aircraft then we will have to start building obsolete aircraft and convert commercial aircraft because that can be done quickly. The inadequate amount of equipment means causalties will rise quickly as soon as the good stuff is exhausted. The public is barely aware that the trade off is lots of high tech versus high causalties.

With the coming financial meltdown and world war the poor public education concerning military history is going to lead to culture shock.

Dennis

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In total war we only have a week or so worth of aircraft then we will have to start building obsolete aircraft and convert commercial aircraft because that can be done quickly. The inadequate amount of equipment means casualties will rise quickly as soon as the good stuff is exhausted. The public is barely aware that the trade off is lots of high tech versus high casualties.

With the coming financial meltdown and world war the poor public education concerning military history is going to lead to culture shock.

Dennis

Excellent point.

The lower the tech the higher the relative casualties by todays standards.

I truly do not see a clean way through this upcoming tipping point.

What fundamentally terrifies me is that at least half of my countrymen will not put up a fight and will willingly surrender to the centralized state.

There are too many who are too dependent on the state for their mere subsistence requirements. Even the basic medications that they, their family and children receive enslaves them to the system.

Levin made an impassioned statement tonight that culminated in him asking whether anyone who is up to speed on the possible/probable imminent destruction of the Republic would have ever believed that this Republic will hang on a 5-4 vote in the Supreme Court this spring and that one Justice's vote could end it for the Republic!

How the hell did we get here, he asked?

This is going to be the most pivotal Supreme Court decision since Dred Scott and close to Erie RR in the 30's.

Adam

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In total war we only have a week or so worth of aircraft then we will have to start building obsolete aircraft and convert commercial aircraft because that can be done quickly. The inadequate amount of equipment means casualties will rise quickly as soon as the good stuff is exhausted. The public is barely aware that the trade off is lots of high tech versus high casualties. With the coming financial meltdown and world war the poor public education concerning military history is going to lead to culture shock. Dennis
Excellent point. The lower the tech the higher the relative casualties by todays standards. I truly do not see a clean way through this upcoming tipping point. What fundamentally terrifies me is that at least half of my countrymen will not put up a fight and will willingly surrender to the centralized state. There are too many who are too dependent on the state for their mere subsistence requirements. Even the basic medications that they, their family and children receive enslaves them to the system. Levin made an impassioned statement tonight that culminated in him asking whether anyone who is up to speed on the possible/probable imminent destruction of the Republic would have ever believed that this Republic will hang on a 5-4 vote in the Supreme Court this spring and that one Justice's vote could end it for the Republic! How the hell did we get here, he asked? This is going to be the most pivotal Supreme Court decision since Dred Scott and close to Erie RR in the 30's. Adam

Levin has it right - a bad Supreme Court decision could be the final straw. Once it tips it is unlikely to recover in my lifetime - which will likely be a shorter life in any case.

I don't see a likely clean way out of the mess. There are unlikely ways out - unlikely because the present American culture is too dependent and the mainstream media corrupt beyond belief.

Dennis

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Dennis May wrote:

In total war we only have a week or so worth of aircraft then we will have to start building obsolete aircraft and convert commercial aircraft because that can be done quickly. The inadequate amount of equipment means casualties will rise quickly as soon as the good stuff is exhausted. The public is barely aware that the trade off is lots of high tech versus high casualties.

end quote

B-52 are already “flying platforms for newer technology.” Older commercial airliners could serve the same purpose but would not be as safe. We had a good supply of Saturn Rockets during post 911’s “Shock and Awe,” in Iraq. I don’t know if we still do. We do have an adequate supply of cruise missiles, which can carry conventional or nuclear weapons. I hope things don’t get so bleak that we use nukes, but fuck them if they can’t take a joke. That’s dark humor from before your time Dennis, as is “Crispy Critters.”

I saw Obama wisely started putting females of child bearing age aboard Subs, (though I think it was Joe Biden’s suggestion) below the surface to avoid radiation exposure if there is a nuclear war. It’s about time, “my Precious, my Precious.” That is a bit ghoulish but I love the way Golem said that. We will survive.

Dennis wrote:

I don't see a likely clean way out of the mess. There are unlikely ways out - unlikely because the present American culture is too dependent and the mainstream media corrupt beyond belief.

end quote

We need to elect a decent President. I saw the effing Senate projections are now tied at 45 to 45, down from 47 Republican 45 Democrat a week ago, damn it. Two “leaning Republican” races are now considered a toss up. What is wrong with US? Wyoming’s Legislature did not pass the bill to provide for a Federal meltdown, but the problem still exists.

“It’s bedtime for” Bonzo, “in Germany.” Good Night.

Peter Taylor

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If it's going to be WWIII, might something be wrong with US foreign policies?

--Brant

I think there are and I know you do, but I can't speak for others.

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If it's going to be WWIII, might something be wrong with US foreign policies?

--Brant

As in WWII military weakness, continual compromise and appeasement emboldens those with ambitions beyond their borders. It is not obvious that there is a solution to WoMD and asymmetric warfare on a planet with fundamentally incompatible cultures. Dan Ust and I have had discussions on this for years. I believe the most likely scenario is tragic. Western civilization can survive through decentralization - but drastic change is on the way. The best solution is the immediate industrialization of space which would completely change a great many things and provide real options which do not exist at present.

Dennis

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Dennis May wrote:

In total war we only have a week or so worth of aircraft then we will have to start building obsolete aircraft and convert commercial aircraft because that can be done quickly. The inadequate amount of equipment means casualties will rise quickly as soon as the good stuff is exhausted. The public is barely aware that the trade off is lots of high tech versus high casualties.

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B-52 are already “flying platforms for newer technology.” Older commercial airliners could serve the same purpose but would not be as safe. We had a good supply of Saturn Rockets during post 911’s “Shock and Awe,” in Iraq. I don’t know if we still do. We do have an adequate supply of cruise missiles, which can carry conventional or nuclear weapons. I hope things don’t get so bleak that we use nukes, but fuck them if they can’t take a joke. That’s dark humor from before your time Dennis, as is “Crispy Critters.”

I saw Obama wisely started putting females of child bearing age aboard Subs, (though I think it was Joe Biden’s suggestion) below the surface to avoid radiation exposure if there is a nuclear war. It’s about time, “my Precious, my Precious.” That is a bit ghoulish but I love the way Golem said that. We will survive.

Dennis wrote:

I don't see a likely clean way out of the mess. There are unlikely ways out - unlikely because the present American culture is too dependent and the mainstream media corrupt beyond belief.

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We need to elect a decent President. I saw the effing Senate projections are now tied at 45 to 45, down from 47 Republican 45 Democrat a week ago, damn it. Two “leaning Republican” races are now considered a toss up. What is wrong with US? Wyoming’s Legislature did not pass the bill to provide for a Federal meltdown, but the problem still exists.

“It’s bedtime for” Bonzo, “in Germany.” Good Night.

Peter Taylor

The number of cruise missiles is also inadequate. Our allies have run out before, we have run out before. In a real war they would be gone in a couple weeks also.

Dennis

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The number of cruise missiles is also inadequate. Our allies have run out before, we have run out before. In a real war they would be gone in a couple weeks also.

Dennis

A real full bore nuclear war should not last that long. I don't see how Iran could survive 20 - 40 one megaton strategic nukes.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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The number of cruise missiles is also inadequate. Our allies have run out before, we have run out before. In a real war they would be gone in a couple weeks also.

Dennis

A real full bore nuclear war should not last that long. I don't see how Iran could survive 20 - 40 one megaton strategic nukes.

Ba'al Chatzaf

All bets are off during full nuclear war. If a single nuclear incident happens on US soil people will flee the cities and the economy will completely collapse. Iran might not survive but retaliation will mean the financial and military collapse of the US as well.

The US is totally unprepared for a large urban strike. The food chain will collapse and people will panic.

Dennis

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