Objectivist friendly animated cartoons?


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  • 5 months later...
I don't know about TV shows, but I heard that the movie The Incredibles was Objectivist friendly. You should check it out.

The Costume Designer for the SuperHeroes absolutely forbade capes. That makes her pretty anti-Objectivist.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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I'd say anything by Brad Bird: The Iron Giant, The Incredibles, Ratatouille. All of them celebrate reason and the individual and deal with the trouble exceptional people get into. The ending of Ratatouille is particularly wonderful from a romantically realistic point of view.

-Kevin

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The Incredibles CAN be interpreted as Objectivist-friendly but it can also be interpreted as holding force and brawn above brains and reason, and also for advocating a concept of "super" that is relative rather than absolute. I think that both interpretations can be supported by the film.

South Park. It may be philosophically immature (ethically it doesnt seem to love egoism, and in the "Chicken Lover" episode one of the characters calls Atlas Shrugged a "piece of shit") but its on our side politically. It makes fun of religion very frequently. And its hilarious.

Not sure about any others. Although in addition to Wolf DeVoon's comment, the live action version of 101 Dalmatians and its sequel, 102, I was rooting for Cruella all the way!

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For older children, I recommend Money as Debt.

I have seen Money as Debt twice now and I cannot recommend it highly enough. It blew me away. It is simple and entertaining, all 47 minutes of it. And it is free.

This is a cartoon with VO. It is pretty primitive in animation technique, but it is so well conceived, the message comes out loud and clear and it is highly entertaining.

I think specific aspects of Objectivism would be wonderful if treated in this manner.

Michael

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  • 4 weeks later...

Mike:

~ Thanx for the ref. Will check it out for Joey.

~ Re THE INCREDIBLES: jeez. It's the closest thing to (AND it passes the threshold for) being 'O-ist friendly' for a movie, nm an animated one. Indeed, there're places that are almost O-ist advocating, fer pete's sakes.

~ I'm sure Baal was joking since the movie's 'Rand stand-in' demonstrated the sensible argument that capes were for Muggles (or...am I mixing movies here?) --- Oh, Superman would be an exception, and, note that Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, etc. never wore one; Batman's, btw, was clearly quite functionally-oriented.

~ Re animateds generally, can't say there's much I'm familiar with that, esp. TV-wise (SOUTHPARK? Puh-leeze) fit in there.

LLAP

J:D

Edited by John Dailey
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Mike, ADDENDUM:

~ Actually, depending on what's meant by "O-ist friendly" there may be quite a few, but, apart from any relevent points advocated, I'd call such "O-ist compatible." (Technically, any distinction there for 'kids' might itself depend on the 'kids', chronologically and especially, psychologically in their...appreciation of whatever hoped for relevence therein.)

~ A lot of old TV stuff ([He-Man, TMNT, etc), stressed 'never give up', 'integrity to your accepted/committed goals', 'face fear down', etc, as LION KING, and the latter added 'be what you can be' (as Rand would say: "Don't let it [your dream/vision] go") not to mention "Think Twice" about what you've accepted as your limitations.

LLAP

J:D

Edited by John Dailey
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Mike, ADDENDUM-II:

~ Then there's Disney's VERY well-done 'classic' BEAUTY AND THE BEAST: "I know I'm unlovable, and am cursed to stay this way"...as long as one dwells on such chronic lack of what one wants from others they don't give...until...he learns to value another past his worries about how much he is (has kept himself?) NOT valued.

~ But these all deal with commonly accepted ideas of 'virtues' and don't really get into 'O-ist' oriented rationales about what makes them human virtues; ergo, they're merely 'compatible', but not, strictly speaking 'friendly.'

~ THE INCREDIBLES, however...was...incredible, down this line.

LLAP

J:D

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  • 4 months later...

Don't forget ANTZ.

I'm looking for some recommendations for objectivist-friendly animated tv cartoon shows. An animated cartoon series that would reflect objectivist friendly principles.
Edited by Mike Renzulli
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  • 3 weeks later...

Some quotes from "The Incredibles".

Edna Mode on 'supermodels': "Supermodels - ha! Nothing super about them. Spoiled, stupid little stick-figures with poofy lips who think only about themselves. Feh! I used to design for GODS!"

Edna Mode replying to Elastic Girl when Elastic Girl find that Mr. Incredible is someplace she didn't think (worried he is having an affair): "What are you talking about? You are Elastigirl! My God! Pull yourself together! What will you do? Is...is...is this a question? You will show him that you remember that he is Mr. Incredible! And you will REMIND him, who YOU are! Well, you know where he is... Go! Confront the problem! Fight! Win! And call me when you get back, dahling, I enjoy our visits. "

Mr. Incredible on Dash's "graduation": "It is not a graduation. He's moving from the 4th grade to the 5th grade."

Mr. Incredible: "It's psychotic! They keep inventing new ways to celebrate mediocrity. But when someone is genuinely exceptional... "

Mr. Incredible: "How could I betray the perfect woman?"

"You are my greatest adventure - and I almost missed it. I swear I'll get us out of here."

Dash: "You always say, "Do your best," but you don't really mean it. Why can't I do the best I can do?"

Syndrome: "I'll give them heroics. I'll give them the most spectacular heroics they've ever seen! And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so everyone can be superheroes! Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super... [laughs maniacally]... no one will be."

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[laughs maniacally]... no one will be."

Veto The Incredibles. Thematically and relentlessly leering, aggressive, difficult for kids under 10, creepy.

W.

Also, the film can be interpreted in non-Objectivist ways quite easily.

I second Antz. Its brilliant. Gene Hackman's General character gives his troops a rousing speech on the virtue of sacrifice, before sending them off on a suicide mission. Woody Allen's character in therapy (yet again), being told he is an insignificant member of a collectivist society. The General being motivated by one thing alone: power lust.

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M. Brown:

~ You forgot to add Dash's comment being driven home from school: "When everyone's 'special'...no one is."

Wolf:

~ For shame not appreciating the worth of this story about the 'best' (in abilities, and [ahem, need I add?] adeptness at helping others) being socially hampered from continuing such by...societal-envy (I think Rand wrote something on 'envy'). --- I'll bet you didn't like BATMAN BEGINS either.

LLAP

J:D

Edited by John Dailey
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Studio:

~ THE INCREDIBLES, agreed, 'can' be interpreted in non-O'ist ways 'quite easily'...by context-droppers. Hell, look at how Rand's writings themselves have actually been interpreted 'quite easily' in a non-O'ist way ("...to the gas chambers, go!"). 'Quite easily', yes; context-keepingly correctly, no. --- 'SfarasImconcerned, this is the BEST animated feature ever made.

LLAP

J:D

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Studio:

~ As to ANTZ, loved it, loved it, loved it; all for the following reasons (none relevent to "O-ist friendly/compatible/etc" aspects):

1) Woody Allen and Sylvester Stallone are 'bosom' buddies. --- Where else ya gonna find a 'buddy' flick like THAT?

2) Woody (what a Freudian name!) 'gets the girl'...Sharon Stone, no less, without an ice-pick (er, common pin.)

3) Gene Hackman as a par excellence 'villian' trying to be the Hitler of bug-dom, with his 'sacrifice' pep-talks (and, threatening persona, of course, for those not 'self-sacrificially' oriented.)

4) The not-quite expected 'Bird' who takes care of everything. :D

~ In its own way, a 'classic' animated story all on its own, definitely.

LLAP

J:D

Edited by John Dailey
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  • 2 weeks later...
M. Brown:

~ You forgot to add Dash's comment being driven home from school: "When everyone's 'special'...no one is."

Wolf:

~ For shame not appreciating the worth of this story about the 'best' (in abilities, and [ahem, need I add?] adeptness at helping others) being socially hampered from continuing such by...societal-envy (I think Rand wrote something on 'envy'). --- I'll bet you didn't like BATMAN BEGINS either.

Yup, forgot that additional quote.

And totally agree with your point. This, to me, is one of the big themes of the movie: that the 'good/best' must (because of society, etc) be forced to hide itself/be ashamed of itself.

There is also the nice progression in the character of Violet, who goes from a shy, 'shrinking violet' character to a more mature, confident and self assured young lady.

As a long time superhero comic fan, I have long been disappointed by the general poor quality superhero films. For me, the Incredibles are one of the best superhero movies. The problem I have with most superhero movies is the need to provide 'drama' in the movie with adversity, usually in the form of the hero loosing or beind defeated and thus overcoming this. While its good to show them overcoming difficulties, too often it strikes me as trying to give the hero flaws/feet of clay, and make them less heroic. While this may make them more human, to a degree it also makes them less heroic and admirable.

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  • 1 year later...
The Simpsons!

Especially "The Monkey Suit" episode.

And there's another episode where I believe Lisa goes to an Ayn Rand School for the Gifted.

I thought it was the Ayn Rand School for Tots.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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