How many objectivists are there in the world today?


Kimmler

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I suppose it is difficult question to answer as the definition of what an objectivist is would be hard to pin down. But how many people would you say in the world today would describe themselves as objectivists?

Big O or little o? Empiricists have a claim to the little o.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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As many as Lenin had when he started out.

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Steven asked:

"But how many people would you say in the world today would describe themselves as objectivists?"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can understand how that question, when asked by a newbie for instance, might be perfectly understandable. But once one understands how many self professed Objectivists don't really "get it" at all, well, does that still seem like a very useful question?

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Or how many feet of barbed wire for the re-education camps.

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Or how many feet of barbed wire for the re-education camps.

Maybe they're not lying about just sending us to Madagascar.

The only way to protect ourselves from this thinking is the way you protect yourself from serial killers: smoke the Rand followers out, make them answer for following the crazed ideology of a serial-killer-groupie, and run them the hell out of town and out of our hemisphere.

Mark Ames

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Kimmler, its a hard one to define. You have Objectivists who are currently believing members of the ARI, Objectivists every bit as hard line but not ARI, TAS supporters, Tea Party social conservatives reading and loving Atlas Shrugged, Libertarians loving Atlas Shrugged. Etc, etc, etc.

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Kimmler, its a hard one to define. You have Objectivists who are currently believing members of the ARI, Objectivists every bit as hard line but not ARI, TAS supporters, Tea Party social conservatives reading and loving Atlas Shrugged, Libertarians loving Atlas Shrugged. Etc, etc, etc.

Thank you to everyone who replied to this one...as always I know you are good men and women with better things to do than answer my questions.

Joel or indeed anybody, care to take a guess on the number?

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Why don't you start by checking some basic stats and create a negative number for the ones you can be pretty sure aren't? Say, Jehovah's Witnesses, for instance. Registered Communists. This process of elimination will surely provide you with valuable learning experiences along the way--perhaps even new perspectives!

When you finally get it down as far as you think you can get it, subtract that number and then start pruning from there.

And it will keep you busy for a good while, as well.

rde

Always There To Help

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Or how many feet of barbed wire for the re-education camps.

Maybe they're not lying about just sending us to Madagascar.

Even though liberal critics hated "Red Dawn," it is actually a decent movie. Director and screenplay writer John Milius, a big NRA supporter, calls himself a "zen anarchist." Though he did not receive screen credit, Milius wrote the celebrated line from the Dirty Harry film "Sudden Impact," "Go ahead, make my day," and the U.S.S. Indianapolis scene in "Jaws." Milius received an Oscar nomination for co-writing the screenplay for "Apocalypse Now." He also directed and co-wrote (with Oliver Stone, of all people) "Conan the Barbarian."

Ghs

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Subject: Beaten Dogs -- and Whiners with their Heads Between their Paws

Oh, for Chrissake you f**kin' mental masturbators!!! This many posts and not a single goddamn one of you even TRIES to answer this very important question!!!!

So you wonder why I don't spend much time on OL these days? @#$%^&!*##!!!!!

Have another drink!

And post some more moronic one-liners!!!

I have lots of disagreements with Diana H. and the group around her, but she's a hard worker, intellectually serious fighting against a world moving into darkness....not a dissipated, defeated, time waster:

Have you checked out Noodlefood recently and compared it to what we see here? Intellectually serious, hard-working with all those projects - podcasts, discussion groups, letters to the editor, op eds, activist groups. Trying to change the world. According to her (and their) own lights.

You don't have to fight for your values in all those ways or on many fronts simultaneously. I started campus clubs, gave lectures and speeches, did some writing, helped make parts of California flourishing places for Objectivism.

But, you need to do -something- to fight for your deepest values, just for your own self respect. LAZY, DISENGAGED people who do nothing but quarrel and make posts DISGUST ME !!!

Don't let it slide away and just post cynical, defeated, impotent complaints on a microscopic website. I can understand Rearden's disgust when he said he'd have to save "your damned necks" as well as his own....the other businessmen who would whine, mope, complain yet take no action....

Edited by Philip Coates
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He's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAACKKKKK!!!!!

Let us Make Merry--slaughter our finest pigs, open our finest ale!

Democracy is safe, once again, and the Heavens Shine upon us. Welcome Home to Thine Realm, O Fountain of Phil-ness!

Confession will begin immediately.

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Phil seems to be under the weird impression that if we post on OL then that's all we ever do.

I'd agree with his frustration on one level, and would call on him to create an actually sane organization that I could get behind, as opposed to the one he's defending that would definitely make me feel dirty to support.

Shayne

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I think they have been being nice to him over there. But they will never be able to give him the kind of love we do, and deep down, I think this is what vexes Him. It is probably the dessicant humorlessness of places like Noodleland that have put their siren-like mojo to Phil. He's had a long time to lurk around here, and how could you not expect him to come out of the chute with his full, Thor-like powers? For a moment, I was almost thinking he put Kimmler upon us as some kind of test. Phil works in mysterious ways . . .

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There are days when I'm strongly tempted to answer the question: "One less than yesterday."

The reason I haven't yet done so is partly (perhaps naive) optimism, the thought that I'm going to be able to best enjoy my life and help to positively influence the world by following this worldview, ethics, politics, and aesthetics in the career and personal choices I make.

And partly sheer cussedness, not wanting to give anyone the satisfaction.

A la Galt, I remind myself -- often these days -- that, just as I am not here on earth to serve Objectivism and Objectivists, neither are Objectivists here on earth to support me in my writing and musical endeavors. That usually works for a while...

REB

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GOVERNOR JERRY BROWN

SENATOR BARBARA BOXER

SENATOR DIANE FEINSTEIN

FAILED TO EVEN GET THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA PASSED

NOT ONE SINGLE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT TURNOVER

BANKRUPT

Great job!

Yep - flourishing objectivist environment - when do we go on strike?

Edited by Selene
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... I am not here on earth to serve Objectivism and Objectivists, neither are Objectivists here on earth to support me in my writing and musical endeavors.

Roger,

This is a perfect statement of the spirit I try to promote here on OL.

I have no interest in growing this site into something like what Ms. Hsieh is doing, nor in trying to be part of any movement.

On Internet resources, I admit I am late on getting my project going (Internet marketing training for Objectivists-libertarians), and that effort will use a lot of video, podcasts, SEO, social networking, etc., but that will be to help people put food on their table during this financial crisis (which I believe will get much worse). It will not be to make an Objectivist society.

Frankly, I cringe at stuff like Objectivist Answers (which is an endeavor promoted by Ms. Hsieh in her more recent Internet efforts--see here). Part of the welcome message is below:

Welcome to Objectivist Answers!

Ask and answer questions about Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism and its application in living! We have a merry band of Objectivists just waiting to pounce on whatever has been on your mind.

Here are some of the questions people are asking over there:

  • Do plants have consciousness?
  • How should Objectivists carry themselves?
  • Can Christians who share some ethical and political values with Rand be Objectivists?
  • What do you tell your kids about Santa Claus?
  • When is the use of torture proper?
  • Would an Objectivist give up the person they love most, if it would make that person happier?
  • What is proper masculine and feminine behavior, and why?
  • Are green technologies immoral?

Out of respect for the productive efforts of other people (and the loneliness of the questioners), I will not mock any of the answers. But I do want to point out that everything signaled by these questions is diametrically opposed to how I live my life and the people I admire. These questioners are not asking what someone else does or thinks in his/her own life. They are asking what is the proper Objectivist way to think about these things. They are asking what is proper for them to think! Fer Keriiiiiist sake!

Can anyone imagine Ayn Rand asking any one of these questions to some authority or other?

The need for approval cries out from these questioners and it hurts me to read their questions. (I feel empathy and I am glad I do on the deepest level of my being.) I want to yell at these people, "Use your own minds, folks! You have something so precious and unrepeatable and you are giving it to someone else for peanuts!"

Without any ill will whatsoever, I wish those people (both questioners and the guru wannabes) happiness in doing this stuff. I mean that. I hope they find some kind of satisfaction.

As for me, I don't believe in it. When I imagine myself doing that, I get weirded out. I would rather chew on razor blades.

May they live long and prosper, but distant from me.

Michael

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Subject: Beaten Dogs -- and Whiners with their Heads Between their Paws

Oh, for Chrissake you f**kin' mental masturbators!!! This many posts and not a single goddamn one of you even TRIES to answer this very important question!!!!

So you wonder why I don't spend much time on OL these days? @#$%^&!*##!!!!!

Have another drink!

And post some more moronic one-liners!!!

I have lots of disagreements with Diana H. and the group around her, but she's a hard worker, intellectually serious fighting against a world moving into darkness....not a dissipated, defeated, time waster:

Have you checked out Noodlefood recently and compared it to what we see here? Intellectually serious, hard-working with all those projects - podcasts, discussion groups, letters to the editor, op eds, activist groups. Trying to change the world. According to her (and their) own lights.

You don't have to fight for your values in all those ways or on many fronts simultaneously. I started campus clubs, gave lectures and speeches, did some writing, helped make parts of California flourishing places for Objectivism.

But, you need to do -something- to fight for your deepest values, just for your own self respect. LAZY, DISENGAGED people who do nothing but quarrel and make posts DISGUST ME !!!

Don't let it slide away and just post cynical, defeated, impotent complaints on a microscopic website. I can understand Rearden's disgust when he said he'd have to save "your damned necks" as well as his own....the other businessmen who would whine, mope, complain yet take no action....

Phil,

Nice to see that you haven't lost any of your spirit(s)!

by the way, Phil,...there is currently a vacancy at MSNBC...strike while the iron is hot. ;)

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re those shining "applications" of reasoned discourse at Noodlefood and "Objectivist Answers" they certainly shed more light on why Rand scolded people for using her philosophy's name in vain.

Of course, we don't believe in conspiracies, but when I see some of the stuff perpetrated by ARIans and their fellow travellers, as representing Objectivism, it gets me wondering whether agent provocateur is really an outmoded concept.

But, of course, the enemies of Objectivism certainly would not stoop so low. And, anyway, why would they go to all that trouble when we have some O'ist devotees who are so eager to metamorphize Rand into something out of Cervantes!

Or is it Kafka?

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Unfortunately there are more Randroids than there are objectivsts. Then there are the Objectists who dont know they are objectivists. I believe there are more Objectivists who dont know thats what they are than there are Objectivists who know they are.

The distinction I make is that of Shakespeare "A rose by any other...". A Socialist is a socialist if they know it or not, or if they deny it or not. If you believe in redistribution of wealth you are a socialist, there are many people in todays world (that number is dropping), these people are socialists and most of them dont even know it. Btw have you guys seen the "friendly neighborhood communist" video produced by the CPUSA

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