Hello

[palebirch]

I suppose this forum is essentially dead, but I might as well say hi.

I apologize for not using my real name/face. I am hiding not from the members of this forum but from anyone who, now or in the future, might use the ideas I espouse here to destroy my reputation or worse. I don't mean only association with Objectivism/Rand, but also my views on sexual politics, for instance. While it is possible to survive and openly hold those ideas today, I can't take for granted that it will be so forever.

I will say that I am in my twenties, I am a university student and I don't reside in the US. I am fairly close to "orthodox" Objectivism, in that I prefer the ARI to Kelly, Branden etc, but I can't "officially" call myself an Objectivist for various reasons.

Thanks to anyone who actually read this.

[Brant Gaede]

Why do you suppose any such thing?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I suppose this forum is essentially dead, but I might as well say hi.

Dude or Dudess,

Are you trying out for a popularity contest?

Michael

[Selene]

I suppose this forum is essentially dead, but I might as well say hi.

I apologize for not using my real name/face. I am hiding not from the members of this forum but from anyone who, now or in the future, might use the ideas I espouse here to destroy my reputation or worse. I don't mean only association with Objectivism/Rand, but also my views on sexual politics, for instance. While it is possible to survive and openly hold those ideas today, I can't take for granted that it will be so forever.

I will say that I am in my twenties, I am a university student and I don't reside in the US. I am fairly close to "orthodox" Objectivism, in that I prefer the ARI to Kelly, Branden etc, but I can't "officially" call myself an Objectivist for various reasons.

Thanks to anyone who actually read this.

And on Good Friday ... BEHOLD a victim in absentia....

[Kyle Jacob Biodrowski]

Heh, this forum is dead, but only in the relative sense of the word. Before I joined Rebirth of Reason and this forum, I belonged to other, far more populated, forums. In comparison to those forums, this forum is empty. However, the quality on this forum is far higher than that of those other forums I once belonged to.

Welcome to the forum. I hope you aren't a hit-and-run poster.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

... I belonged to other, far more populated, forums. In comparison to those forums, this forum is empty. However, the quality on this forum is far higher than that of those other forums I once belonged to.

Kyle,

Thanks for the recognition.

By way of explanation, I just looked on Google Analytics and saw we have had 7,235 unique visitors for the last month with about a half-and-half split between new visitors and return visitors.

That means about 3,600 people (and search engine bots) keep coming back to OL (so far).

That's not dead. That's quite alive.

Here's the deal. OL serves a more elite reader. Even though many readers do not interact here, they read. How do I know other than visitor stats? I see issues and perspectives first raised as important on OL pop up at other places all the time.

Frankly, I don't want a lot of traffic right now. That costs more money--and a crapload more time since I have not set up a structure for a moderating team.

I do have expansion plans in the works, and they are solid, albeit dependent on some things outside my control (including a few legalities). When it's time, this place is going to suffer a hefty explosion of traffic while keeping its characteristic high quality. And, I suppose, I will need to put in some people handling structures that, at least, point people in the right directions amid the confusion without heavy-handedness, but keep the trolls and spammers to a minimum.

For now, by keeping up a stream of quality posts, we are planting seeds. Not in a small garden, but on an entire farm. And don't forget, over 7,000 people a month--generally on the elite side--are watching us do it.

Ah yes, the regular contributors will be well remembered when the new phase happens. I have a fierce sense of loyalty to those who stand with me (even critics) before the goodies hit. Those who have known me for a while have seen this already.

Michael

[galtgulch]

When I first discovered Objectivism back in 1968 in Brooklyn NY there were just Ayn Rand's books to read and The Objectivist Newsletter with its Intellectual Ammunition Department. Life was simpler for a short time. Then the split occurred and I guess there were those who took sides. I didn't see the point in giving up the wisdom of either Branden or Rand and cannot imagine how anyone would feel otherwise.

After Rand passed away and Peikoff established the ARI and then Kelley started whatever it was called, at first, The Objectivist Center, so we were confronted with another choice. One or the other, or both.

My sympathies were with Kelley although I found Peikoff's The Ominous Parallels worthwhile in that it demonstrated the role of philosophical ideas throughout history and provided a more satisfying explanation for the rise of National Socialism than any of the other traditional attempts.

I still consider Objectivism to be the antidote for the ills of the world. I don't have any idea how many people are committed to Objectivism yet or how rapidly it is growing. Not fast enough although there is hope.

"Necessity is the mother of invention" comes to mind in this regard. But there are already competitors on the field and they already number over one billion adherents each. The battle rages among these ideologies. A couple of days ago it would have been handy to know the Islamic prayer militants asked school children to recite to show their religion. Those who didn't know or weren't able to recite it were shot to death.

Closer to home if there were a voice raised against the unconstitutional policies of our Congress they were drowned out over the decades. Social Security and Medicare come to mind as well as a host of other social programs which make up the safety net so supported by both major parties. Our growing national debt exceeds the official announcement of 18 trillion dollars and is closer to 240 trillion according to the calculations of Lawrence J. Kotlikoff, former senior Council of Economic Advisors to Ronald Reagan.

"If you add up all the promises that have been made for spending obligations, including defense expenditures, and you subtract all the taxes that we expect to collect, the difference is $211 trillion. That's the fiscal gap," he says. "That's our true indebtedness."

Link: ttp://tinyurl.com/3mbl28z

That article was written four years ago

"What you have to do is either immediately and permanently raise taxes by about two-thirds, or immediately and permanently cut every dollar of spending by 40 percent forever. The [Congressional Budget Office's] numbers say we have an absolutely enormous problem facing us."

So now I read that certain techniques are being considered such as mandating that everyone must hold a certain percentage of their retirement account, say ten percent to begin with, in US Treasury Bonds, to enable the government to have the money to pay its bills so that it wouldn't have to cut its spending.

Needless to say that means you would never be able to sell those bonds or get your money back either.

Not to mention that troubled banks will soon be able to help themselves to depositors savings to "bail-in" those banks without having to use taxpayers money.

Both methods would be a form of theft but if such laws, or enabling legislation, were signed into law and uphold by the Supreme Court our only recourse would be to have the state legislatures declare such laws unconstitutional and therefore null and void. In addition the states could pass laws to forbid implementation of such unconstitutional "laws." That would be a form of nullification first mentioned by Thomas Jefferson in The Kentucky Resolves of 1798 along with James Madison's Virginia Resolves. That was in response to John Adam's Alien and Sedition Act.

Have enough citizens become aware of nullification as yet in order to be armed with the antidote when their bank accounts and retirement accounts are being fleeced by the Feds?

Once again for the benefit of those new listeners here who may not have heard this before. There are two groups in the colleges, universities and even some high schools, entitled Students For Liberty, which is on over 1500 campuses in the US and worldwide, and Young Americans For Liberty which numbers over 204,000 student activists on over 500 campuses. Both groups are growing daily and I daresay reading the right stuff. They are affiliated with The Atlas Society and other crucial entities within the pro individual freedom movement, e.g. the Foundation for Economic Education, etc.

So there is reason to be hopeful but not complacent.

I hear my grandson age 4 is now awake so I will stop here for now. I am counting on all of you to do whatever you consider to be your share to help the cause. I just cut my hours at work to 32 plus five overtime, so I may have the time now to write a book.

gg

[palebirch]

More replies than I was expecting! One by one:

Brant Gaede: From what I could tell, this forum gets <10 posts daily. That's pretty dead ("only mostly dead", still revivable by Miracle Max?) compared to the other places I go (e.g. Reddit, though not /r/Objectivism, which is full of loonies).

Michael Stuart Kelly: Usually when it comes to web communities, I read far more than I post, and I try to make friends on an individual basis that I can stay in touch with on my own. And actually, posting in a small community often results in the post getting far more attention than I am comfortable with, rather than being a drop in the bucket.

Selene: I have no idea what you mean.

Kyle Jacob Biodrowski: Thanks for the welcome. I will try not to be a "hit and run" poster.

GaltGulch: Thank you for your perspective. I have attended events, conferences and seminars from many of the student freedom organizations, including SFL, FEE, IHS and ISI, and I am subscribed to lots of E-mail newsletters from these organizations. The people I interacted with and the things I read do not give me hope. The vast majority of libertarian young people today have little to no interest in philosophy and are subjectivists and/or collectivists, if you don't mind my painting with a broad brush. The holdouts are die-hard Machiavellian or Nietzschean pragmatists and progress-hating religious conservatives.

I don't think you need to be an Objectivist (nor atheist, though I am) to be a "good libertarian" but an attitude of individualism, an uncompromising rationality, a seriousness about ideas and many more things are necessary, and most of the people I have met have perhaps one of those qualities at best. Lest I appear to be building a temple to myself here, I would call myself far from uncompromising and often not serious enough. But I am not heartened by the potential of a youth movement that does not even attempt to take anything seriously.

[Brant Gaede]

If you learn of a better place to go for feedback please let us know so we can go there too. That's all we do here. I don't care how many come just to read and leave and not post for they are outside this loop of give and take. 33,000 have read my profile or over 4000/yr. I guess that's at least 90% phony, just spybots. It may be 95% phony. My ego won't deflate until I learn the true figure is under a thousand.

--Brant

if the world only knew the power of my brain I'd rule and ruin!

[Brant Gaede]

Hey, Selene Adam. I didn't get that one either.

--Brant

I usually get at least 75% of your stuff

[galtgulch]

palebirch,

Thank you for your feedback.

I have attended only one of the SFL conferences last year and met only a handful of the many attendees. I found them to be intelligent, ambitious, caring, motivated and determined to participate in the activism and goals of the organization. They were aware that they were not alone in the endeavor which gave them encouragement to think of effective ways to pass the torch. They had learned a great deal already from their own reading of the books recommended by SFL which did include Ayn Rand's non fiction.

So my impression was far more optimistic about the kinds of young people attracted to SFL and YAL. I plan on attending another conference in my area and will try to interact with more of those who come to such events to see if I can get a better sense of their interests especially regarding philosophy.

gg

[Selene]

Hey, Selene Adam. I didn't get that one either.

--Brant

I usually get at least 75% of your stuff

I was not in a good mood...

I apologize for not using my real name/face. I am hiding not from the members of this forum but from anyone who, now or in the future, might use the ideas I espouse here to destroy my reputation or worse. I don't mean only association with Objectivism/Rand, but also my views on sexual politics, for instance. While it is possible to survive and openly hold those ideas today, I can't take for granted that it will be so forever.

The above statement seemed to be a statement made by a person who perceived themselves as a victim, "...hiding....from anyone..."

The reference to living in a foreign land, and other references, appeared to project to me, someone who was in fear of being harmed.

Also, his statement that "While it is possible to survive and openly hold those ideas today, I can't take for granted that it will be so forever."

Just came across as a victim in waiting.

At first blush, I thought troll so I did not respond based on Michael's previous admonitions concerning trolls and other types of posts.

A...

Adopting the Avis motto

[Peter]

Greetings, Palebirch. I like your icon. And I like to joke around with puns. That name sounds like a local brewery with a hint of apple after a swallow. I could never reconcile the philosophy, and the supposed psychology associated with the ARI brand of Objectivism so I was never "clear" as the Scientologists say. That was a joke with my usual undertones of "better think about it." No reply necessary, expected, or welcome.

[palebirch]

No reply necessary, expected, or welcome.

How kind of you.

[Brant Gaede]

Hey, Selene Adam. I didn't get that one either.

--Brant

I usually get at least 75% of your stuff

I was not in a good mood...

I apologize for not using my real name/face. I am hiding not from the members of this forum but from anyone who, now or in the future, might use the ideas I espouse here to destroy my reputation or worse. I don't mean only association with Objectivism/Rand, but also my views on sexual politics, for instance. While it is possible to survive and openly hold those ideas today, I can't take for granted that it will be so forever.

The above statement seemed to be a statement made by a person who perceived themselves as a victim, "...hiding....from anyone..."

The reference to living in a foreign land, and other references, appeared to project to me, someone who was in fear of being harmed.

Also, his statement that "While it is possible to survive and openly hold those ideas today, I can't take for granted that it will be so forever."

Just came across as a victim in waiting.

At first blush, I thought troll so I did not respond based on Michael's previous admonitions concerning trolls and other types of posts.

A...

Adopting the Avis motto

A troll comes with a phony ID, not no ID, and isn't anywhere near this smart. Nor is he so forthcoming about the rest of it in his first post as he was. In any case everybody gets the benefit of probation just starting out. It always gets interesting until boredom sets in, if it does; it always does with a troll--but in the meantime it's fun.

--Brant

I decided to come here when I found out I was actually a troll on SOLO PASSION--I didn't know it was all about wanking

[Brant Gaede]

I would not be using my real name today except I'm too old for it to matter and because stuff I wrote 25 years ago in pre-Internet Fort Freedom is now available for perusal on a Google search. Back then I had no idea about any search function. I've only used my real name since and while it's been continuous a lot of it has been lost. Lost, but sometimes a loss is not a loss after all. My position on abortion, for instance, is much more nuanced and sophisticated now than ideological. While it's still there on Fort Freedom, I just don't give a damn.

--Brant

[Selene]

I would not be using my real name today except I'm too old for it to matter and because stuff I wrote 25 years ago in pre-Internet Fort Freedom is now available for perusal on a Google search. Back then I had no idea about any search function. I've only used my real name since and while it's been continuous a lot of it has been lost. Lost, but sometimes a loss is not a loss after all. My position on abortion, for instance, is much more nuanced and sophisticated now than ideological. While it's still there on Fort Freedom, I just don't give a damn.

--Brant

Understood.

By "troll," I meant in an OL context.

Remember, I, thankfully, missed all the flame wars that went on as the really "smart" alleged Objectivists tore each other, the philosophy and the movement to shreds.

So I meant an OL type troll not a fake ID one selling time shares.

A...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Brant Gaede: From what I could tell, this forum gets <10 posts daily. That's pretty dead...

PB,

What a pile of horseshit.

All you have to do is scroll down to the bottom of the Home Page and click on the link called "Today's Top Posters," then count.

This is like duh for anyone who posts on forums since this feature is universal to all forums. Why you didn't do it before presenting us with your dazzling erudition and experience on the Internet, I don't know.

Michael Stuart Kelly: Usually when it comes to web communities, I read far more than I post...

Uh huh...

Like you just did.

I see another pseudo-expert who wants to be right and doesn't give a damn about facts.

I realize it stings to be wrong and have it rubbed in your nose, but this is the result of the modern "my opinion is fact because I can post anywhere for free" culture.

Sheer mental laziness.

Bah...

Here's a hint. If you want people to react in a positive manner, learn a little something about them first, like use your two eyes and actually read something, especially if it is plentiful and right in front of you, and don't start out with a stupid baseless negative opinion of them. You seem like you have a good mind. Why not use it before engaging mouth?

That's just a suggestion. What you do with it, I don't give a damn.

Other people may like your faking it posture. I don't.

Come on board with the real deal or don't fucking come. The people around here are very smart and eventually they chew up fakers for snacks and spit out the contradictions worse than what I just did.

More replies than I was expecting!

You got that part right.

Michael

[Peter]

Palebirch wrote:

How kind of you.

end quote

Exactly! In my near infinitely benevolent way I did not want you to think you SHOULD answer every post in a courteous fashion. And a spicy greeting is a lot more readable. Oh wait. Something just arose! Maybe we will be able to discern your true self from your response.

Hot off the press. From the Baltimoron Free Press: Former Hooters Waitress Awarded $250.00 In Discrimination Case April 1st, 2015 5:29 PM

After waiting for more than a year, Lemonjello Johnson gets the phone call shes been hoping for. She said, Good news. The law was on your side,' Johnson said. Johnson claims she was fired from the Harborplace Hooters in 2013 because her blonde highlights werent allowed. And her bosoms were too small. And her butt was too big.

They said it was literally because Im black and black people dont have blonde hair and smaller asses and a customer complained that my bosoms did not reach the Hooters standard. Thats what a MFing manager actually told me, she said. He said my 46 inch butt kept the other waitress from getting to their tables.

Johnson claims that waitresses of other races were not disciplined for having unnatural hair colors or butts that were too big or too small. An arbitrator ruled this week that the facts clearly show that Hooters policy was implemented in a way that discriminated against the former waitress. Johnsons attorney says the restaurant chains image policy is too vague.

People have implicit biases and those shine through unfortunately when theyre left with so much discretion to make decisions, said Jeficate P. Flubber, attorney.

Despite the arbitrator awarding Johnson over $250.00 for lost wages and attorney fees, Hooters denies any wrongdoing. A statement on their website reads, in part: Ms. Johnsons claims of discrimination are simply without merit and Hooters received an adverse and flawed decision from the arbitrator presiding over the case.

The former waitress is also asking Hooters for an official apology. She is now owner of the Baltimore establishment, Normal size hooters and Big Afro-American Butts Restaurant. Hooters plans to sue her for copyright infringement.

end of phony quote

Well. What do you think of that?

[palebirch]

I'm not really understanding the hostility, Michael. I'm sorry that I missed the "top posters" link (not every forum runs on the same architecture, as I'm sure you know... and I'm on a mobile device so I'm not sure I'm seeing the same thing you are) but I don't really understand what you took as a criticism/negative opinion about my (mistakenly?) thinking that there is not much activity here. I also didn't argue with you or correct you in any way about the activity level or number of posters; I just explained why I usually prefer larger communities and why I am not "trying out for a popularity contest".

I'm not sure what you mean by my "faking it" -- if you just mean the subject at hand or in general, because I'm not using my real identity. If I'm not welcome for the latter reason, that's fine; say so directly and I'll leave. If it's the former, well, I have no idea why this innocent comment of mine is so contentious, but I'm sorry to have offended.

Peter, I still don't really understand what you were trying to accomplish -- or the relevance of that article -- but I do try to be courteous in general.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I'm not sure what you mean by my "faking it"...

PB,

Making up stats and calling it fact. That is faking it.

Where did you get your stats? Wanna discuss your research?

Hmmmmm?

Of course you don't because you pulled it out of... you know where.

As to understanding the hostility, I can't help you.

Some people (like me) have a real aversion to bullshit.

But you have to decide you don't accept spouting bullshit yourself to understand that.

Until then it's perplexing, ain't it?

If you stick around, you will find when you come with the real deal, the hostility will go away. Respect here is earned and it is given when earned, even when people don't agree with each other.

This is a forum of ideas, serious ideas, not boneheaded opinions backed by made-up statistics.

Michael

[Selene]

PB...

Can we stipulate that however you chose to word your opening post saying hello was similar to entering a persons home or business and opening with a statement that was negative.

A...

[william.scherk]

I suppose this forum is essentially dead, but I might as well say hi.

Hi, back. I am one of the caretakers of the cemetery, not a spirit.

I apologize for not using my real name/face. I am hiding not from the members of this forum but from anyone who, now or in the future, might use the ideas I espouse here to destroy my reputation or worse.

You won't be alone in not wanting to post full real name on your profile, but you should let Michael our head caretaker know backstage. You also won't be the first person leaving a grey cutout or unicorn instead of a face, or like me, a well-known entity, a Haida image.

SInce you view this as a mostly-dead space, I hope you understand the spirit of the voices that spoke to you upthread. It's hard to imagine how your reputation could be destroyed because ideas were attached to your real-life name. But it's possible, and would probably make the best story you could tell, if you get to a tenth post and beyond.

Maybe you could hint about what you might be avoiding or escaping from by settling anonymously in a place for dead things.

I don't mean only association with Objectivism/Rand, but also my views on sexual politics, for instance. While it is possible to survive and openly hold those ideas today, I can't take for granted that it will be so forever.

As long as you are not the author of Putin Defends Christian Values you should probably be fine. If you go to the edge of racism and over, and if you go on to rage against womankind, you will find healthy argument.

I will say that I am in my twenties, I am a university student and I don't reside in the US. I am fairly close to "orthodox" Objectivism, in that I prefer the ARI to Kelly, Branden etc, but I can't "officially" call myself an Objectivist for various reasons.

Thanks to anyone who actually read this.

At my last count, this thread had counted 134 page impressions as 'reads.' That might be enough to count as a good start to your new anonymous life at OL.

I am most interested in why you can't call yourself an Objectivist. Money? Spouse? Church? Family?

Are you happy with Randian, or Objectivish, or small-o objectivist? Are you 'a student of Miss Rand'? Have you checked out the other two cousin 'rivals' to OL, Solopassion.com and RebirthofReason.com? If so, you will be able to see that OL is the taller and most active of the three walking dead forums.

If you are wondering if there is any policy or posted guidelines for OL members, you should check out Objectivist Living Posting Guidelines and Legal Notice (this post is not easy to get to from the forum homepage). These two paragraphs might help explain why some folks feel a little ripped off when a 'person in hiding' shows up ready to rock. A lot of us are old-timers in a way -- we have seen trolls come and go.

6. We discourage pseudonyms. Please register and post under your name. If you are using a display name, please enter your real name into your profile. Members who conceal their identity from the site owners could become subject to removal. Although you may send your name to the site owners privately via personal message, as a courtesy, we prefer the name to be in the profile so people know who they are speaking with online.

7. We want to see you! Please upload a photo of yourself, (headshot preferred) to use as an avatar through your Control Panel (My Controls). Animated gifs are very distracting and have been disabled by the software.

Again, if you can give an example of an opinion that if expressed under your own 'real name' would lead to harms or undue consequence -- that would be a great explainer.

[palebirch]

Well, again, I didn't see it as a criticism when I said it (if anything, a criticism of the surrounding culture?) but I am sorry to have offended. I simply looked at the number of subforums that hadn't had posts in days, weeks or months. I didn't realize there were actual statistics available, but I also didn't think the subject was terribly important -- certainly not important enough to warrant the kind of response I am getting here. It just didn't occur to me that it could be perceived as insulting.

Anyway, I don't think there's anything acceptable I can say here, so I'll excuse myself. Hope everyone has a happy Easter weekend.

[Selene]

Anyway, I don't think there's anything acceptable I can say here, so I'll excuse myself. Hope everyone has a happy Easter weekend.

Hmm so a pouting victim departs.

Young man, you should never leave anyplace in your life with that attitude.

A...