Here Comes War


Brant Gaede

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Michael wrote:

I tried to look this up and can't find it--I can't even find the topic.

end quote

Sorry. It was a joke for Brant who said I was having less than dry dreams about Israel and nukes. My name was at the top as correspondent so it was obviously meant as a pretend piece. I did have one qualm about an hour after I posted it but figured the half dozen who would read this on OL would get it. Then I thought, what if someone reposted it somewhere else as an Oh my godddd! piece? Thanks for making it sound like I wrote something that seemed plausible.

The actual engineering project was discussed years ago in a scientific journal I no longer remember, but it is very feasible. Of several projects mentioned using nuclear explosions for engineering it was the most promising and with the most chance of success. Imagine changing the climate for the better for millions of people.

Peter

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It is my experience that large organizations lie to themselves as a part of internal competition. The more centralized the control the bigger the "whoppers" that can be spun. The control of information and displacing costs and blame are huge tools in internal competition. Once you've seen video of new centrally planned Chinese cities and malls that are entirely empty because no one can afford to live in them after being built it has to make you question all the numbers coming out of China.

Dennis

The Russians did that even in the days of the Tzar of All The Russias. It was called the Potemkin Village.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Of several projects mentioned using nuclear explosions for engineering it was the most promising and with the most chance of success. Imagine changing the climate for the better for millions of people.

The subject of fusion bombs without fission bomb ignitors has always interested me. If they are developed it would enable nuclear engineering projects and direct nuclear to orbit Orion type spacecraft. On the other hand nuclear backpacks in every city would be a real danger.

Dennis

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It is my experience that large organizations lie to themselves as a part of internal competition. The more centralized the control the bigger the "whoppers" that can be spun. The control of information and displacing costs and blame are huge tools in internal competition. Once you've seen video of new centrally planned Chinese cities and malls that are entirely empty because no one can afford to live in them after being built it has to make you question all the numbers coming out of China.

Dennis

The Russians did that even in the days of the Tzar of All The Russias. It was called the Potemkin Village.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Bob:

A while ago, I tried to find some solid proof that these Potemkin Villages actually existed and was not able to find a source that could validate their existence. Lots of stories, but nothing concrete that I could find.

If anyone has a source, I would appreciate seeing it.

Adam

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I understand the villages actually existed, Adam, but there is more myth than reality involved. That is, it wasn't so much phony-baloney as is commonly understood.

--Brant

Brant:

That is what my "research" showed also. Interesting.

Adam

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Michael wrote:

I tried to look this up and can't find it--I can't even find the topic.

end quote

Sorry. It was a joke for Brant who said I was having less than dry dreams about Israel and nukes. My name was at the top as correspondent so it was obviously meant as a pretend piece. I did have one qualm about an hour after I posted it but figured the half dozen who would read this on OL would get it. Then I thought, what if someone reposted it somewhere else as an Oh my godddd! piece? Thanks for making it sound like I wrote something that seemed plausible.

The actual engineering project was discussed years ago in a scientific journal I no longer remember, but it is very feasible. Of several projects mentioned using nuclear explosions for engineering it was the most promising and with the most chance of success. Imagine changing the climate for the better for millions of people.

Peter

Your joke was well crafted, I'll grant you that. I didn't recognize that it was directed at me. The technical reality you posited seemed doable, at least superficially, but the politics were ridiculous. Israel would never tip its nuclear hand that way before using its nuclear weapons in a war.

--Brant

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I understand the villages actually existed, Adam, but there is more myth than reality involved. That is, it wasn't so much phony-baloney as is commonly understood.

--Brant

Brant:

That is what my "research" showed also. Interesting.

Adam

The trick is not to research "Potemkin village" as to research "Potemkin" the man. Nothing phoney about him (so I think).

--Brant

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I understand the villages actually existed, Adam, but there is more myth than reality involved. That is, it wasn't so much phony-baloney as is commonly understood.

--Brant

Brant:

That is what my "research" showed also. Interesting.

Adam

The trick is not to research "Potemkin village" as to research "Potemkin" the man. Nothing phoney about him (so I think).

--Brant

Good direction...thanks.

n 1774, Potemkin became the governor-general of Russia's new southern provinces. An absolute ruler, he worked to colonize the wild steppes, controversially dealing firmly with the Cossacks who lived there. He founded the towns of Kherson, Nikolayev, Sevastopol, and Yekaterinoslav (now Dnipropetrovsk). Ports in the region became bases for his new Black Sea Fleet. His rule in the south is associated with the "Potemkin village", a largely fictional method of ruse involving the construction of painted facades to mimic real villages.*** Potemkin was known for his love of women, gambling and material wealth; he oversaw the construction of many historically significant buildings, including the Tauride Palace in St. Petersburg. A century after Potemkin's death, his name was given to the Battleship Potemkin, which featured in the 1905 Russian Revolution and was fictionalized in The Battleship Potemkin by Sergey Eisenstein.

***"Potemkin Village"

The notion of the Potemkin village (coined in German by critical biographer Georg von Helbig as German: Potemkinsche Dörfer) arose from Catherine's visit to the south. Critics accused Potemkin of using painted façades to fool Catherine into thinking that the area was far richer than it was. Thousands of peasants were alleged to have been stage-managed for this purpose. Certainly, Potemkin had arranged for Catherine to see the best he had to offer (naturally organizing numerous exotic excursions) and at least two cities' officials did conceal poverty by building false houses. It seems unlikely, however, that the fraud approached the scale alleged. The Prince of Ligne, a member of the Austrian delegation, who had explored on his own during the trip, later proclaimed the allegations to be false.[74]

From a source other than Wiki:

From the outset Potemkin planned to show off his accomplishments to Catherine and, equally importantly, to the European powers represented at her court. Given the gigantic scale of the work and the limited time to carry it out, one can't be surprised that the odd village, road, palace, etc, wasn't completed on schedule. Russia being Russia, it was also deemed necessary to greet Catherine with an ostentatious display at every stop on her tour of inspection--a regiment of 200 beautiful sharpshooting amazons here, 20,000 rockets and 55,000 burning pots spelling out the initials of the empress there. All this required a certain amount of stage management beforehand. (Much the way Anytown, USA, cleans house before George W. arrives.) Orders went out to hide beggars, paint facades, and perhaps erect the occasional false front to conceal the occasional hovel.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2479/did-potemkin-villages-really-exist

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(Double Dash) Brant wrote:

Your joke was well crafted, I'll grant you that. I didn't recognize that it was directed at me,

end quote

Thanks. My original letter that sounded like a dream to you was essentially inspired by one of your previous letters so you are calling the kettle black. The one I am referring to is your first letter on this thread. So, your letter had been working on me Brant, and I answered in my own words, which you then deemed “fanatasical.”

Brant wrote:

The technical reality you posited seemed doable, at least superficially,

end quote

The engineering project is not only doable it is easily doable though I don’t know how many nuclear devices would be needed, nor am I sure of the possibility of lessened radioactive half lives for the area. If you look at a map of the Great Rift you will see that Somalia would need to be part of the project and might demand compensation and that a bridge be built reuniting its territory. I seem to remember a minimum of a dozen explosions would be needed. The procedure would be to clear an inland area of humans and animals, then set it off. The earth would settle. At the next high point repeat the operation, continuing to the sea. The last set of explosions would bring in the salt water and erode the remaining low lying dry areas. Eventually the new lake would become less saline as increasing rain waters drain into it.

Brant wrote:

. . . but the politics were ridiculous. Israel would never tip its nuclear hand that way before using its nuclear weapons in a war.

end quote

How wrong you are. The way to guarantee our entrance and military leadership into the arena would be for Israel to test a nuclear device out to sea with lots of reporters and cameraman on hand, like we did in the Pacific in the 1950’s. The US would immediately destroy Iran’s nuclear and conventional capabilities for Israel, rather than have Israel nuke Iran.

The Israeli Prime Minister gave President Obama “The Book of Esther” and every Israeli spokesperson since then has been trying to get through Barrack’s thick skull. When someone is as narcissistic as our President reason and persuasion may not work.

A demonstration will work. I just hope Israel opts for the demonstration rather than the sneak attack with nuclear weapons. I hope everyone concerned will write the White House and the Israeli Embassy.

Peter Taylor

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Peter,

This just popped up on on the TED Talks site. A liberal did with the NYT what you did with AP, except she went to print.

It's interesting that this stuff pops out in different places at the same time.

Here's the video. The first half is cute, but the NYT stuff is only in the second half.

<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></embed></object>

Michael

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