Where Do Some of the Trolls Come From?


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Where Do Some of the Trolls Come From?

I'm putting this up without fully reading the articles below, yet. But I will read them carefully later.

I almost don't need to. I've seen this stuff in action for several years.

I thought most of it was Soros-funded (and people sympathetic to his organizations). It didn't occur to me this was the government itself.

The story below is about England, but after the NSA's orgy of data collection, is there any doubt in anyone's mind it is happening here, too?

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations
By Glenn Greenwald
24 Feb 2014
The Intercept

If anyone has any further doubts, below is a link to a PDF copy of a paper written by Cass Sunstein (before he became Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs) where he openly called for doing precisely this--using government resources to wage disinformation campaigns against normal citizens to disrupt "conspiracy theories."

Conspiracy Theories
by Cass R. Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule
Harvard Law School
January 15, 2008

When infiltrating groups, including Internet things like chat rooms, comments to articles, blogs, etc., forums, social media, etc., Sunstein and Vermeule suggest the government hire non-governmental sockpuppets to do the writing as this...

... might ensure that credible independent experts offer the rebuttal, rather than government officials themselves. There is a tradeoff between credibility and control, however. The price of credibility is that government cannot be seen to control the independent experts.


In other words, the government should lie to these citizens and make sure it is not caught, otherwise the lie won't work.

That's pretty screwed up, even for this government.

It's not like they're not telling you what they're going to do.

But of course, Sunstein was merely talking theoretically. He would never think of implementing something like this while in power. Nah... Never... Not in a million years... :)

I've suspected some weird behavior by new posters on OL at times. I've never been able to prove it was by paid agents. I guess I need to brush up on Evans' Law of Inadequate Paranoia, which states: "No matter how bad you think something is, it always turns out to be worse."

For those who have been perplexed by my sometimes inexplicable hostility toward a newbie, the root is here. I'm delighted to say I have been wrong a few times, but not always.

Michael

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The article rightly points out that the lack of proof for a conspiracy theory is positive proof that the theory is correct. And if perchance proof is found for the conspiracy theory that is further reason to believe the theory is correct. In short, a conspiracy theory is never wrong. Any disproof you find are put their by the Conspirators themselves. "They" -want- you to disbelieve the conspiracy, so that they can conspire in safety.

This is one reason why I do not debate conspiracy theories with anyone. It is futile.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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I suppose I'm going to have to deal with this at some point, so it might as well be here.

There's a poster on RoR who I had to ban on OL. He likes to post bad things about me, which is what I told him to do (do this crap anywhere on the Internet, but not here). So I don't mind.

Now he's claiming that this thread pertains to him. It doesn't. He used to work for Cass Sunstein, so I imagine this is why. But that's just a coincidence.

This guy has two high-school friends who showed up with him and they carried on in a manner I later called The Three Stooges. I'm not going to go into their childish behavior since it's all on record here for anyone who wants to dig.

I wouldn't even address this issue, but I'm sure some gossip is going to be flying around because of the drip drip drip yapping. And don't forget, there are always three sides to an argument, Side A, Side B and the truth. I'm happy to call my comments here Side B. :) (But it's what I actually see and why I've done what I've done.)

At first I wondered if the Three Stooges were paid people who show up to disrupt the seriousness of places like OL like in the opening thread. Not that this forum is a world-shaker, but we do get around 5,000 unique visitors a month (with a long average bounce-rates, meaning they tend to stay when they arrive) and most of them are of the intellectual persuasion. I would say highly intelligent, too, but I am guessing based on the sporadic participants. I already know the regulars are highly intelligent.

It's not quantity, but quality here. And we've been around awhile. So when new people show up causing trouble, I figure OL could be a minor blip on a radar somewhere and my antenna wiggles. We are the opposite of the Obama administrations, after all. So I keep an eye on these new folks.

When I came out with my Three Stooges comment about these three, believe me, I did not consider them to have what it takes to be paid disrupters. I was fed up with the childishness that was constantly derailing the discussions here. the problem was not evil, it was infantile crap.

The other two are not banned, but the guy on RoR is. I wrote to a person offline about a similar issue regarding someone else (and I was delighted to be wrong in the end--I don't like being right about this). I'm going to adapt some of those remarks to here.

My real problem with this dude is he's clueless as he plods on with his constant whining about people. And I don't know what to do about clueless people. They do stupid shit all the time.

And I mean stupid in a very specific way. See here: Human stupidity.

Cipolla claims that there are four types of people, helpless, intelligent, bandits and stupid people. The helpless suffer loss while others win. The intelligent win and do it in a way others win. The bandits win and cause loss to others. The stupid people cause loss to others without gaining anything themselves, and often cause loss to themselves, too.

Of the four, Cipolla says only stupid people are consistent. (That certainly applies here.) :)

I have found that to be true in general, especially with people who try to be bossy and whiny all the time. And note that stupid people often have high IQ's (like I imagine that dude does).

These kinds of people have destroyed my projects over and over in life. It always starts the same, too. I guess I'm getting a little too jaded when new ones show up.

I probably could have handled this a little better, but right now I am in the middle of a big project that will directly result in a huge improvement in the forum. Some monster good things are coming and this requires my attention, not babysitting grown adults who are neurotic. (Sorry, I can't discuss my plans in public, yet, except to say they exist and are being acted on.)

I will have to figure out a way to deal better with new destructive and/or stupid people who show up, though. I don't want OL to be a place where members feel they have to walk on eggshells. I just don't have the time to figure this out right now.

I wish it were more profound than this, but it's not. The guy's not a paid troll. In my opinion, he's too stupid to be one.

:)

Michael

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I've gotta have some fun with this stuff. Not just bitch about government trolls.

Pain in the ass qua pain in the ass is a pain in the ass.

(Ooh... Grack... Even I groaned on that one... :) )

I wrote the following on a different thread for a different context. I was bantering with a college person who said in jest (I think :) ) she wanted to become a government parasite.

You have my blessing if that's what your little heart desires.

I don't think they formally teach sucking skills at college, but my suggestion is to bone up on those.

The competition among suck-ups is terrible in the government if you want to go far.

If all you want is a nice comfy job somewhere, living off the fat of the land and letting others pay for it, so to speak, moderate sucking skills are all you need. Once you're dug in, just keep a low profile and kiss the asses of those that need periodic kissing, which is not all that often.

Nice future to spend your life if you can get it.

:smile:


At least a scientist would have something productive to do.

Imagine doing all that sucking and kissing on places you would rather not just so you could go to websites and post lies. Actively promote propaganda.

What kind of person does that?

Talk about a noble mission! A veritable sacred calling, it is, with soothing sucking sounds as background.

:smile:

Here's another thought.

Confucius say: A wise parasite knows where to suck.

It's a living, I suppose.

:)

Michael

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Michael, all you have to do to make a big OL improvement is kick me out. You won't do this becaue I'm so good at what I do you don't know what I'm doing. OL will be a wasteland soon thanks to me.

--Brant

~Master Troll~

by their spoor shall ye know them

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I went over to R or R and Robert's behavior there justifies his getting kicked out of here. He was called out on it, btw. Joe Rowlands, whose paterfamilias I do not like and is why I stopped posting on his forum (he stole Perigo's interest in it, btw, eight years ago)--I do not suffer moderation--could easily moderate him after he reviews that silly anti-MSK thread Robert started.

--Brant

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What's the difference between a government parasite and a mosquito?

Mosquitos stop sucking when you slap them!

What is the difference between a government employee and a snail.

One is a slime eating bottom feeder and the other is an aquatic life form.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Michael, all you have to do to make a big OL improvement is kick me out. You won't do this becaue I'm so good at what I do you don't know what I'm doing. OL will be a wasteland soon thanks to me.

--Brant

~Master Troll~

by their spoor shall ye know them

Brant,

How could I ever throw you out?

I have an addictive personality, remember?

If it's not good for you, but gives you a buzz, there I am waddling in it.

:smile:

Michael

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What's the difference between a government parasite and a mosquito?

Mosquitos stop sucking when you slap them!

What is the difference between a government employee and a snail.

One is a slime eating bottom feeder and the other is an aquatic life form.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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