We're All Bozos on this Bus


syrakusos

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I say this to you publicly jts, I repeat you are a stupid ignorant whackjob, and not to my friends privately as I would prefer, because I want you to listen for once.

LISTEN. My mother had her life, I had my life, because of psychiatry and pharmacology.

That, at best, is only anecdotal evidence. If I gave anecdotal evidence in favor of something I believe (for example that tumors can autolyze), people would call me nasty adjectives. It's not very good even as anecdotal evidence in the absence of detailed information.

If you want to talk anecdotal, there are plenty of videos of cases where psychiatry did extreme harm. If you don't like videos, even tho they provide more detailed information, try this:

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

I have difficulty believing that poison can improve health, of body or of mind, so of course I am skeptical of any story about a poison improving health. If someone took a poison and then got better, more likely they got better in spite of the poison, not because of it. Actually with modern psychiatry, they are not supposed to get better; getting better is missing the whole point.

There are plenty of videos where qualified professionals admit that psychiatry is not based on science. There is a special word for doctors whose doctoring is not based on science: quack.

To say something positive, I know cases where someone had a psychiatric condition and recovered after an improvement in diet or after fasting. But those are anecdotal and they are not peer reviewed and nobody would take them seriously.

Words. Fucking. Fail Me.

I do not swear much but sometimes it is necessary.

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That, at best, is only anecdotal evidence. If I gave anecdotal evidence in favor of something I believe (for example that tumors can autolyze), people would call me nasty adjectives. .... I have difficulty believing that poison can improve health, of body or of mind, so of course I am skeptical of any story about a poison improving health.

One man's elixir is another man's poison. While I assert that the plural of anecdote of is not data, the contrapositive is also true: the singular of population is case.

Many common, well known treatments from foxglove (digitalis) to amygdalin (laetrile) are "poisonous." It is well-known known that smell of almonds is a telltale of cyanide poisoning, but almonds are good for you because they poison cancer cells.

The basic problem that we should all agree on is the collectivist thinking of medical professionals who insist that a drug with 60% success in the test population should be mass marketed, thus ensuring a 40% failure rate of misery, tragedy, loss, and suffering.

It is an absolute fact that no two hemoglobin molecules in your own body are identical. It is an absolute fact that three distinct biochemical markers signify Type 1 Diabetes, each of which is treatable with the same insulin, but each of which is biochemically different from the others.

Individualism is not just a political theory, it is a biochemical fact of reality.

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That, at best, is only anecdotal evidence. If I gave anecdotal evidence in favor of something I believe (for example that tumors can autolyze), people would call me nasty adjectives. .... I have difficulty believing that poison can improve health, of body or of mind, so of course I am skeptical of any story about a poison improving health.

Many common, well known treatments from foxglove (digitalis) to amygdalin (laetrile) are "poisonous." It is well-known known that smell of almonds is a telltale of cyanide poisoning, but almonds are good for you because they poison cancer cells.

Digitalis doesn't work. Amygdalin doesn't work. Almonds don't do much for cancer. Chemotherapy (poison therapy) doesn't work. You can't poison the cancer without poisoning yourself.

The basic problem that we should all agree on is the collectivist thinking of medical professionals who insist that a drug with 60% success in the test population should be mass marketed, thus ensuring a 40% failure rate of misery, tragedy, loss, and suffering.

Drugs don't work. They sometimes seem to work because they mask symptoms.

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How many drugs do you take for your conditions, Jerry?

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jts,

In a long, long life I have been called names on occasion. I am not everbody's cup of tea I know. But never before have I been called an anecdote.

And you added "And so's your mother, and your son". Talk about nasty adjectives.

You need help. You have an inability to understand basics. As an emergency measure I suggest you memorize MEM's excellent post #29 above, and then fast (shut up) for at least a week. You might not feel better after this treatment, but I will.

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The basic problem that we should all agree on is the collectivist thinking of medical professionals who insist that a drug with 60% success in the test population should be mass marketed, thus ensuring a 40% failure rate of misery, tragedy, loss, and suffering.

Drugs don't work. They sometimes seem to work because they mask symptoms.

Alleviating the symptoms can signal the body to quit the emergency mode and go into rest and healing. It is true that much of modern medicine, especially as commonly understood, is incomplete and incorrect.

One of our gym teachers was an active socialist. (He had been a history teacher, but the FBI changed that.) He was a big fan of outdoor gym in the winter. "We'll catch cold!" we complained. "Cold does not cause colds," he replied. "Germs cause colds." I told that to a conservative friend of mine who said that of course socialists subscribe to the germ theory of disease. I was taken aback. My friend asked if I knew about the great influenza epidemic of 1918. "How come everyone didn't die?"

Well, micro-organisms do cause diseases if your immune system cannot protect you from them. And therein we find JTS's implicit theory that perfect health requires no outside agents to maintain the body for 125 years. Nice theory... And it apparently applies to mental health, as JTS's powers of conceptualization and persuasion demonstrate. It is unfortunate that he is keeping the secret to himself, only arguing in flat denials rather than putting forward a positive program. But that is, apparently, the healthy way to health.

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Well, micro-organisms do cause diseases if your immune system cannot protect you from them. And therein we find JTS's implicit theory that perfect health requires no outside agents to maintain the body for 125 years. Nice theory... And it apparently applies to mental health, as JTS's powers of conceptualization and persuasion demonstrate. It is unfortunate that he is keeping the secret to himself, only arguing in flat denials rather than putting forward a positive program. But that is, apparently, the healthy way to health.

There is a science of health. And it's not a secret. I certainly never tried to make a secret out of it.

http://jtstory.onlinewebshop.net/lexicon-nh/nh_lexicon.html

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How many drugs do you take for your conditions, Jerry?

I don't take drugs. The last time and perhaps the first time I took a doctor prescribed drug was in about 1969. In those days I was ignorant and didn't know better. After taking as prescribed 2 or 3 times, I disliked the effect and quit.

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Well, micro-organisms do cause diseases if your immune system cannot protect you from them. And therein we find JTS's implicit theory that perfect health requires no outside agents to maintain the body for 125 years. Nice theory... And it apparently applies to mental health, as JTS's powers of conceptualization and persuasion demonstrate. It is unfortunate that he is keeping the secret to himself, only arguing in flat denials rather than putting forward a positive program. But that is, apparently, the healthy way to health.

There is a science of health. And it's not a secret. I certainly never tried to make a secret out of it.

http://jtstory.onlinewebshop.net/lexicon-nh/nh_lexicon.html

Well, micro-organisms do cause diseases if your immune system cannot protect you from them. And therein we find JTS's implicit theory that perfect health requires no outside agents to maintain the body for 125 years. Nice theory... And it apparently applies to mental health, as JTS's powers of conceptualization and persuasion demonstrate. It is unfortunate that he is keeping the secret to himself, only arguing in flat denials rather than putting forward a positive program. But that is, apparently, the healthy way to health.

There is a science of health. And it's not a secret. I certainly never tried to make a secret out of it.

http://jtstory.onlinewebshop.net/lexicon-nh/nh_lexicon.html

He can barely read, either. It's even worse than I thought.

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jts,

In a long, long life I have been called names on occasion. I am not everbody's cup of tea I know. But never before have I been called an anecdote.

And you added "And so's your mother, and your son". Talk about nasty adjectives.

You need help. You have an inability to understand basics. As an emergency measure I suggest you memorize MEM's excellent post #29 above, and then fast (shut up) for at least a week. You might not feel better after this treatment, but I will.

I didn't call you an anecdote. I called Your story (or reference to a story) an anecdote.

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jts,

In a long, long life I have been called names on occasion. I am not everbody's cup of tea I know. But never before have I been called an anecdote.

And you added "And so's your mother, and your son". Talk about nasty adjectives.

You need help. You have an inability to understand basics. As an emergency measure I suggest you memorize MEM's excellent post #29 above, and then fast (shut up) for at least a week. You might not feel better after this treatment, but I will.

I didn't call you an anecdote. I called Your story (or reference to a story) an anecdote.

As I just said, you can barely read.

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How many drugs do you take for your conditions, Jerry?

I don't take drugs. The last time and perhaps the first time I took a doctor prescribed drug was in about 1969. In those days I was ignorant and didn't know better. After taking as prescribed 2 or 3 times, I disliked the effect and quit.

When you were last in the hospital Jerry, did you refuse all drugs?

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Well, I was going to remonstrate jts for citing ssristories as a reliable source. Despite their protests to the contary, they write and sound like a scientology front. Examples being their use of "overkill," by citing every possible (and not so possible) instance of someone allegedly being harmed by psychiatric drugs. The idea here is to so overwhelm the casual reader that he is likely to conclude that all instances cited "prove" their case against psychotropic drugs.

Alas, that is not the case. Even a cursory examination of the cases cited demonstrates their attempts to twist the facts to fit their foregone conclusion. Their name, by the way, is also inaccurate, since it is using the accronym,"ssri," selective serotonin inhibitors - which constitute a fraction of psychotropic drugs used, to describe them all..

However, they deny being scientologists. The scientology front group, the Citizens' Commission on Human Rights, often cites them as a reference. But maybe that's just a coincidence... right.

However, jti has managed to find a resource with even worse scientific credentials than the scientologists. I admire his perserverance, if not his judgment

.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_M._Shelton

Read it and weep.

All I can say, jts, is please be sure to practice safe sex,...because if you were to contract something awful, like syphillis, and decided to try to cure yourself by Shelton's "natural hygiene,"........hoo, boy!!

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Here's an even better discussion of Shelton's "scientific" credentials. Are you sure that this is the guy you want to cite as a "health" expert?

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/natural_hygiene.html

Please....don't get sick!

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When you were last in the hospital Jerry, did you refuse all drugs?

How about novacaine before the dentist drills...

Does clove oil count as a drug? I had dry sockets after my wisdom teeth were extracted, and clove oil was a life saver.

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Wiki is a poor source of information about Shelton, as I pointed out in another post. Dr. Barrett has no credentials and says some ignorant things and is a source of mis-information. Natural hygiene is not an offshoot of naturopathy. What Dr. Barrett says about autolysis of tumors is laughable. Dr. Barrett doesn't know the difference between fasting and starving.

If you want real information about Shelton, you could try his books (online) and interviews (online).

But Shelton was a pioneer and he made mistakes. He did not think that he knew it all. His main mission in life was to "fan the dying embers to fierce flame", that is, to rescue a whole body of literature. This he did.

From Shelton:

We have previously pointed out that a series of individuals, perhaps even of ages, are required for the full development and culmination of a great thought. Each individual and each age provides further light and truth, while man labors through indefinite time for the perfection of a science. Each event is the term of a series; the present is the summation of the past, which is still to be added to in the future. It was inescapable that at its origin (or rather, its revival) in the last century, Hygiene should have had many imperfections. It is certainly true that at its present stage of evolution it shall have imperfections still.

This fact was recognized by the early Hygienists, who not only held to different views and carried on different practices, but strove to improve both their understanding and their practices. Trall stated that the greatest room in the world was (or is) the room for improvement. To his classes he emphasized that the most the pioneers of Hygiene could do was to lay foundations and establish broad outlines, but that future Hygienists would have to fill in the details. Nobody thought that Hygiene had burst forth in full flower with no errors to be corrected and no further developments to be made.
If you want to learn about modern health science (what Shelton called hygiene), brought up to date in the light of modern knowledge, try some modern doctors who learned from Dr. Shelton and continued where he left off.
Dr. Fuhrman, an admirer of Shelton, points out mistakes or imperfections in Shelton's diet ideas. So does Dr. Alan Goldhamer.
Shelton supervised 40,000 fasts. Dr. Alan Goldhamer (or his staff) supervised 7,000+ fasts. In a certain 4-part video series, Goldhamer seems to have taken the science of fasting even beyond Shelton's "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting".
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I don't take drugs. The last time and perhaps the first time I took a doctor prescribed drug was in about 1969. In those days I was ignorant and didn't know better. After taking as prescribed 2 or 3 times, I disliked the effect and quit.

When you were last in the hospital Jerry, did you refuse all drugs?

The last time I was in a hospital, apart from visits, was about in 1969. The MRI test in 2006 did not require a stay in the hospital.

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When you were last in the hospital Jerry, did you refuse all drugs?

How about novacaine before the dentist drills...

Does clove oil count as a drug? I had dry sockets after my wisdom teeth were extracted, and clove oil was a life saver.

Novacaine etc. are drugs to kill pain, not to improve health. They are poisons, as all drugs are, but they are justified for surgery. Fortunately they are a one time deal and you can recover from the poisonous effect. If you were to take these poisons every day as a way of life, the result would be bad.

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jts,

Hilarious, that you refer to Dr. Barrett as having no credentials, while advocating for "Dr." Shelton, who frequently demonstrated his lack of (real, as against diploma mill ) medical credentials to the courts and ended up serving time for practicing without a license. Several times.

But, we could argue this forever. It's not worth it. If you wish to bet your life on Shelton, or Hubbard, or their clones, fine. Good luck to you. I am afraid that you are going to need it.

OL readers can readily find the source materials online on Shelton, Hubbard, and on psychotropic medications - and make their own determinations.

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Hilarious, that you refer to Dr. Barrett as having no credentials, while advocating for "Dr." Shelton, who frequently demonstrated his lack of (real, as against diploma mill ) medical credentials to the courts and ended up serving time for practicing without a license. Several times.

Dr. Barrett is a psychiatrist. What do modern psychiatrists do? They poison people. He has no credentials in fasting or autolysis of tumors. He doesn't even know what fasting is or what autolysis is.

Where do medical credentials come from? They come from government. Not from free market competition. People came to Shelton from all over the world after properly credentialed doctors failed to help them. Shelton's patients were mostly failures from doctors with proper credentials and Shelton got them well. Judge doctors, not by government credentials, but by how well their patients do and by their knowledge.

I know something about one court case involving Shelton. You will never learn about this from wiki. Shelton told a man to break a fast. The man refused, saying that he had a message from God telling him to continue the fast. He could not be persuaded to break the fast and he refused water also. Long story short, the man died of dehydration and Shelton got the blame.

Shelton's personal health failing was caused in part by the stress in his life being prosecuted by ignorant judges and in part by overwork. He typically worked 100+ hours per week and never took vacations. He wrote his books at night when he should have been sleeping. You will never learn that from wiki.

By the way, he did not practise medicine, no matter what the courts said. He was opposed to medicine. This is clear from his chapter on medicine and hygiene contrasted.

Shelton on medical credentials:

Had Jesus advised his followers to first graduate from a rabbinical school as preparation for preaching Christianity or had Martin Luther advised all young would-be Lutheran preachers to graduate from a Catholic college for training of priests before they could preach Protestantism, if these men had said to their followers: get your degree from a "respectable" college and earn the "right" to preach by acquiring the theology of the older and "recognized" theological schools, they would have adopted the same thing that these would-be Hygienists who study allopathic medicine as a preparation to practice Hygiene are doing. If one may best fit oneself for the fidelity and responsibility of marriage by a few years of libertinism or harlotry, then one may best fit oneself for the practice of Hygiene by graduating in allopathic medicine. First learn the techniques of poisoning the sick and you will be prepared to give them intelligent care!

I learn from many doctors, not just Shelton. And it's not a matter of betting on them. It's a matter of learning from them. I am my own doctor. (Yes I know, you will say I have a fool for a patient.)

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Is it starve a cold and feed a fever or the other way around? I never can remember. I don't get colds or fevers much anyway. But next time I do, I will make sure not to eat or drink anything, just in case.

It's if you feed a cold you will need to starve a fever. If the cold (a remedial process) fails, the next step is a fever (a stronger remedial process).

There is nothing wrong with drinking water; water doesn't count as food; it doesn't require digestion.

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