Brant Gaede Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Alcohol is like a lawyer--when you need some (one) you get some (one).--Brantin the meantime . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, alcohol is evil, No. Alcohol is amoral. Only people can do evil. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Ferrer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, alcohol is evil,No.People do evil.GregRight, drugs and alcohol are cool. It's people who are evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, alcohol is evil,No.People do evil.GregRight, drugs and alcohol are cool. It's people who are evil.Droll. Funny.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, alcohol is evil, No. People do evil. Greg Right, drugs and alcohol are cool. It's people who are evil. Drugs and alcohol aren't cool either. They're just amoral things. But you're getting closer... people do all the evil. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 People do all the good.--Brant(and my cat, too)now that the bromides are taken care of . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 People do all the good. --Brant (and my cat, too) now that the bromides are taken care of . . . Yes, that's true for both good and evil. But it is not us, for we are only conduits for either good or evil to manifest themselves through us and into the world around us. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Greg wrote about Brant’s concept that drugs are not bad per se, yet people many still abuse them: Yes, that's true for both good and evil. But it is not us, for we are only conduits for either good or evil to manifest themselves through us and into the world around us. end quote “Into the world around us” is a nice sociological phrase and “The seeds of its own destruction” is an interesting title for a thread. It implies a built in flaw. Might anyone identify America's built in flaws? Can one problem, psychotropic drugs, lead to a society’s downfall, whether prescribed, bought legally, or purchased on the “black market”? A person in other societies as in Japan can purchase what America considers prescription drugs at the drug store, with no prescription, yet they are not declining because of that freedom. The decline of a country, other than from conquest, is from many factors. Externally, a country may decline from a world wide market place that out - produces them. It could be from a prevailing culture that does not value productive work. The ready availability of programs putting a person “on the dole” is a problem in England and America. I would rank the factors governing the survivability of a country in a top down fashion: from its political system and national debt; to the state of its society and culture which includes drug use; natural resources; world wide competition; etc. So a semi free country can limp along, or devolve into totalitarianism; compete or become economically isolationist; or it make check its premises and thrive. That sequence of devolving, isolating, and competing may cycle over and over. There are few guarantees, but the rational, productive state of a culture is imperative. If a culture’s head is on straight . . . we get the productive optimism of Ronald Reagan. Darwin’s concept of “Survival of the Fittest” applies conceptually to empires and countries. Some have argued that a good philosophy leads to a good culture and I agree. But some portion of a philosophy influences the popular culture, which may then glorify through news, movies, books, and TV, drug use and hooliganism. Or “Atlas Shrugged” may influence other generations one cycle at a time, every ten years or so. Are psychotropic drugs helping make AFFLICTED Americans productive and clear headed? Of course. Are psychotropic drugs helping make Americans near psychological normal better? I doubt it. I will listen to the respondents to this thread with some clinical, scientific knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Greg wrote about Brant’s concept that drugs are not bad per se, yet people many still abuse them: Yes, that's true for both good and evil. But it is not us, for we are only conduits for either good or evil to manifest themselves through us and into the world around us. end quote “Into the world around us” is a nice sociological phrase and “The seeds of its own destruction” is an interesting title for a thread. It implies a built in flaw. Might anyone identify America's built in flaws? The flaw isn't built in to America, the flaw is within each individual and so isn't confined to just one country. Civilisation itself carries within it the seeds of its own destruction. And that flaw is the failure to do what's morally right. Can one problem, psychotropic drugs, lead to a society’s downfall, whether prescribed, bought legally, or purchased on the “black market”? The problem is not drugs themselves which are just amoral objects. The real problem lies within the person who abuses them. I would rank the factors governing the survivability of a country in a top down fashion: from its political system and national debt; to the state of its society and culture which includes drug use; natural resources; world wide competition; etc. I rank only one factor governing the survivability of a country in a bottom up fashion: The choice of each individual to do what's morally right. So a semi free country can limp along, or devolve into totalitarianism; compete or become economically isolationist; or it make check its premises and thrive. That sequence of devolving, isolating, and competing may cycle over and over. There are few guarantees, but the rational, productive state of a culture is imperative. If a culture’s head is on straight . . . we get the productive optimism of Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan accurately represented the general prevailing decency of the people who voted him into office. I remember when he was Governor of California. The state flourished. And as President, the nation flourished. That prevailing decency has all but evaporated as a once responsible self motivated productive independent population has degenerated into an immoral infestation of something-for-nothing benefits sucking parasites. And it is they who have created the government they deserve in their own image. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Agreed about your Reagan statements. I still watch on occasion the speech he made when campaigning for Goldwater. Damn near brings me to tears. Especially in contrast to Obama lashing out "you didn't build that!" What a detestable excuse for a human. There is your antichrist right there Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 The article primarily addressed the current epidemic use of psychotropics.Fifty million, or one out of every five adults is taking prescription psychiatric drugs. In 2010 alone, 250,000,000 prescriptions were written for anti-depressants.America is a narcoculture.GregAnyone who takes psychiatric drugs needs his head examined.Not so. There are drugs that even out the mood swings of bi-polars They have useful results. With some people anti-depressants are literally a life save.Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Agreed about your Reagan statements. I still watch on occasion the speech he made when campaigning for Goldwater. Damn near brings me to tears. Especially in contrast to Obama lashing out "you didn't build that!" What a detestable excuse for a human. There is your antichrist right there Greg. I look at it from the bottom up more than from top down, so what's really creepy is the tens of millions of people who don't live by American values. They comprise the political majority which got Obama elected twice. So he represents them and not the Americans. Reagan was a good man who represented good Americans. It is my hope that one day there will be enough good Americans living in America to elect another good man to represent them. If not... the seeds of destruction win and America loses. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 The article primarily addressed the current epidemic use of psychotropics. Fifty million, or one out of every five adults is taking prescription psychiatric drugs. In 2010 alone, 250,000,000 prescriptions were written for anti-depressants. America is a narcoculture. Greg Anyone who takes psychiatric drugs needs his head examined.Not so. There are drugs that even out the mood swings of bi-polars They have useful results. With some people anti-depressants are literally a life save....while with others they are literally life enders. http://www.ladailypost.com/content/brief-history-psychotropic-drugs-prescribed-mass-murderers MASS MURDERERS... ~ALL~ OF WHOM WERE ON PSYCHOTROPICS John Hinckley (1981)... on psychotropics. Laurie Dann (1988)... on psychotropics. Patrick Purdy (1989)... on psychotropics. Joseph T. Wesbecker (1989)... on psychotropics. Joseph T. Wesbecker (1989) on psychotropics. Kurt Danysh (1996)...on psychotropics. Michael Carneal (1997)... on psychotropics. Kip Kinkel (1998) ...on psuchotropics. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (1999)... both on psychotropics. Larry Gene Ashbrook (1999)... on psychotropics. Michael McDermott (2000)... on psychotropics. Christopher Pittman (2001)... on psychotropics. Andrea Yates (2001)... on psychotropics. Jeff Weise (2005)... on psychotropics. Terry Michael Ratzmann (2005)... on psychotropics. Seung-Hui Cho (2007)... on psychotropics. Robert Hawkins (2007)... on psychotropics. Steven Kazmierczak (2008)... on psychotropics. Robert Stewart (2009)... on psychotropics. Jared Loughner (2011)... on psychotropics. Eduardo Sencion (2011)... on psychotropics. Scott Evans Dekraai (2012)... on psychotropics. Thomas "TJ" Lane (2012)... on psychotropics. Ian Stawicki (2012)... on psychotropics. James Holmes (2012)...on psychotropics. Andrew Engeldinger (2012)... on psychotropics. Adam Lanza (2012)... on psychotropics. Anyone would have to be STUPID to deny this connection. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Greg,Oh no! Not again!Copy/paste an entire article?Come on, dude.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Greg, Oh no! Not again! Copy/paste an entire article? Come on, dude. Michael Hey Michael, Sorry, man. But it's not the complete article... only an excerpt of the mass murderers who were on psychotropics. I'll cut it down to the names. The details on each mass murderer are truly chilling. There's more than enough to make an undisputable point that America has degenerated into a narcoculture where the solution to every problem known to man lies in finding just the right dope to control the symptoms. Only one problem... ...they create MONSTERS while trying to control the behavior of evil people with dope. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Greg,Oh no! Not again!Copy/paste an entire article?Come on, dude.MichaelHey Michael, Sorry, man. But it's not the complete article... only an excerpt of the mass murderers who were on psychotropics. There's more than enough to make an undisputable point that America has degenerated into a narcoculture where the solution to every problem known to man lies in finding just the right dope to control the symptoms.Only one problem......they create monsters.GregYour reason is an excuse and isn't valid.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Greg, Oh no! Not again! Copy/paste an entire article? Come on, dude. Michael Hey Michael, Sorry, man. But it's not the complete article... only an excerpt of the mass murderers who were on psychotropics. There's more than enough to make an undisputable point that America has degenerated into a narcoculture where the solution to every problem known to man lies in finding just the right dope to control the symptoms. Only one problem... ...they create monsters. Greg Your reason is an excuse and isn't valid. --Brant I had added to that comment to complete it. ...they create MONSTERS while trying to control the behavior of evil people with dope. This is religious dogma of the narcoculture: For every conceivable mental problem known to man, there is a chemical to control behavior. The reality is, no amount of dope will EVER make evil people behave like good people. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Greg,Oh no! Not again!Copy/paste an entire article?Come on, dude.MichaelHey Michael, Sorry, man. But it's not the complete article... only an excerpt of the mass murderers who were on psychotropics. There's more than enough to make an undisputable point that America has degenerated into a narcoculture where the solution to every problem known to man lies in finding just the right dope to control the symptoms.Only one problem......they create monsters.GregYour reason is an excuse and isn't valid.--BrantI had added to that comment to complete it....they create MONSTERS while trying to control the behavior of evil people with dope. This is religious dogma of the narcoculture:For every conceivable mental problem known to man, there is a chemical to control behavior.The reality is, no amount of dope will EVER make evil people behave like good people.GregNo matter how much you repeat yourself you're still quoting too damn much material. If for no other reason, beside the one already mentioned, then if one wants to get to the post before or after yours, one has to scroll, scroll, scroll.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 No matter how much you repeat yourself you're still quoting too damn much material. If for no other reason, beside the one already mentioned, then if one wants to get to the post before or after yours, one has to scroll, scroll, scroll. --Brant I'm not sure why you're complaining after I had already deleted all of the text in the article leaving only just the names of the psychotropic doped mass murderers as undeniable evidence of the monsters the narcoculture fosters and nurtures and enables. Is a simple list of names also too much for you? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 No matter how much you repeat yourself you're still quoting too damn much material. If for no other reason, beside the one already mentioned, then if one wants to get to the post before or after yours, one has to scroll, scroll, scroll.--BrantI'm not sure why you're complaining after I had already deleted all of the text in the article leaving only just the names of the psychotropic doped mass murderers as undeniable evidence of the monsters the narcoculture fosters and nurtures and enables. Is a simple list of names also too much for you? GregSorry; I missed where/when you said that.--Brantuntil next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 No matter how much you repeat yourself you're still quoting too damn much material. If for no other reason, beside the one already mentioned, then if one wants to get to the post before or after yours, one has to scroll, scroll, scroll. --Brant I'm not sure why you're complaining after I had already deleted all of the text in the article leaving only just the names of the psychotropic doped mass murderers as undeniable evidence of the monsters the narcoculture fosters and nurtures and enables. Is a simple list of names also too much for you? Greg Sorry; I missed when/when you said that. --Brant until next time Fair enough, Brant. I've noticed that sometimes when people disagree with my comments, they will make a fuss over something else which has nothing to do with the topic. So if that's the case, your disagreement has been duly noted. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Greg,On point, I do agree America is way too deep in mind-altering drugs, legal and illegal.I've known people who are highly functional using them. I tried my damnedest to be one of them, but it just doesn't work with me. I even tried to be a drug dealer at one time, but I kept eating up my stock. I'm happy to admit I'm a total failure at using drugs. Just about as incompetent as the come. And an asshole when they run out. But I learned something nice over time (probably by necessity more than wanting to because I ultimately wanted to live). Abstinence can be way cool if you let it.Not a deprivation at all. On the contrary, it's a form of wealth.For example, nowadays, I would not trade my manner of sleep for anything, especially not for the ways I used to feel sleeping under drugs and/or alcohol. Everyday I have this experience is a deposit in the wealth of my past. I can't share this wealth with anyone, but I know I have it and that's good enough.There are other cool payoffs from abstinence, too. Starting with the sincerity I can now feel gratitude. What a rush!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 In the realm of the abstract, my ability to think clearly is my treasure. In the realm of flesh and blood, my family (extended) is my treasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Greg, On point, I do agree America is way too deep in mind-altering drugs, legal and illegal. It has literally become a religion with tens of millions of believers who have devout faith in the primacy of the chemical solution of treating moral problems with drugs. I've known people who are highly functional using them. I tried my damnedest to be one of them, but it just doesn't work with me. I even tried to be a drug dealer at one time, but I kept eating up my stock. I'm happy to admit I'm a total failure at using drugs. Just about as incompetent as the come. And an asshole when they run out. But I learned something nice over time (probably by necessity more than wanting to because I ultimately wanted to live). Abstinence can be way cool if you let it. Not a deprivation at all. On the contrary, it's a form of wealth. For example, nowadays, I would not trade my manner of sleep for anything, especially not for the ways I used to feel sleeping under drugs and/or alcohol. Everyday I have this experience is a deposit in the wealth of my past. I can't share this wealth with anyone, but I know I have it and that's good enough. There are other cool payoffs from abstinence, too. Starting with the sincerity I can now feel gratitude. What a rush! Michael That's beautiful to hear, Michael, because it shows the strength of finding out for yourself. This is truly Objectivism... to clearly see the world as it is. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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