Expectations of World War


dennislmay

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How would the Muslims have gotten their hands on American Jews in a "rid the world of Jews" campaign? You are starting to match up to Ba'al's bluster, maybe in frustration with him?

--Brant

Where did you happen to see anyone state that Muslims would like to get their hands on American Jews in the first place Grant? I was referring to the fact that no one would ever consider him a threat because he is just a lone nutjob in the US with mental problems who talks big but is ultimately quite harmless.

I refer you to the last sentence of yours I quoted. Please craft a reply to that and delete the above as not apropos.

--Brant

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How would the Muslims have gotten their hands on American Jews in a "rid the world of Jews" campaign? You are starting to match up to Ba'al's bluster, maybe in frustration with him?

--Brant

Where did you happen to see anyone state that Muslims would like to get their hands on American Jews in the first place Grant? I was referring to the fact that no one would ever consider him a threat because he is just a lone nutjob in the US with mental problems who talks big but is ultimately quite harmless.

I refer you to the last sentence of yours I quoted. Please craft a reply to that and delete the above as not apropos.

--Brant

No I don't think I'll be doing that.

Please reread what I wrote before, it really needs no further explanation. It makes clear that if Muslims had really wanted to have massacred all of the Jews, we would have teamed up with the Christians to massacre them all a very long time ago when the Christians were doing that and there would now be no Jews in the US. Instead in standing for justice and our divine obligation to it we protected and gave safehaven to the innocent Jews to protect them from the European hordes and their never ending savagery.

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How would the Muslims have gotten their hands on American Jews in a "rid the world of Jews" campaign? You are starting to match up to Ba'al's bluster, maybe in frustration with him?

--Brant

Where did you happen to see anyone state that Muslims would like to get their hands on American Jews in the first place Grant? I was referring to the fact that no one would ever consider him a threat because he is just a lone nutjob in the US with mental problems who talks big but is ultimately quite harmless.

I refer you to the last sentence of yours I quoted. Please craft a reply to that and delete the above as not apropos.

--Brant

No I don't think I'll be doing that.

Please reread what I wrote before, it really needs no further explanation. It makes clear that if Muslims had really wanted to have massacred all of the Jews, we would have teamed up with the Christians to massacre them all a very long time ago when the Christians were doing that and there would now be no Jews in the US. Instead in standing for justice and our divine obligation to it we protected and gave safehaven to the innocent Jews to protect them from the European hordes and their never ending savagery.

You simply don't understand the United States. If you mean pre-United States there was a lot of Christians against Jews. I notice your technique of pretending you said something you originally didn't and I see an educated and extremely sophisticated ideologue behind the curtain.

--Brant

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LM,

You can play fast-and-loose with the facts, and go round and round, but you

won't let yourself see that the answers lie straight through the middle.

1. Every war, conflict and skirmish Israel has ever been involved in was defensive. (Including their stupid excursions into Lebanon.) ALL the territory, north to south, east to west, could have been expropriated - if they wanted it, and self-evidently, they haven't.

2. Israel has won the wars, but Israel is the one that wants peace most badly.

Hamas/PLO, and the Arab states lost all wars, but they don't want peace.

Go figure. Since when does the victor have to negotiate peace? This is a mark of their

sincerity and good-will, and a black mark against their enemy - who do not want peace,

under any circumstances, it is obvious.

3. Gaza and the West Bank are being held hostage by their leaders, and supported by

some of the Arab states, as a thorn in Israel's side - a bargaining chip to gain

international sympathy. The Gazans will wake up to this evil manipulation,

one day, I fancy, and put their leaders on trial.

4. My question is still out there: Is there one single reason Israel should respect

or concede borders, when not once in its history has everyone respected their's?

(LM?)

Is anyone going to wake up to the fact that by attacking Israel, it gives them due cause

to take more territory? at the least, as strategic buffer zones - which is afterwards demanded

back by the losers? Easy solution: if you want to keep your land, maybe you shouldn't

attack Israel from it.

Simple causality. Simple "justice".

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You simply don't understand the United States. If you mean pre-United States there was a lot of Christians against Jews. I notice your technique of pretending you said something you originally didn't and I see an educated and extremely sophisticated ideologue behind the curtain.

--Brant

Brant, I'm not sure that you're understanding exactly what I've said or am saying and now I find this confusing. What is it that you think I was saying initially in the first place? That Muslims wouldn't have been able to kill Jews in the US?

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You simply don't understand the United States. If you mean pre-United States there was a lot of Christians against Jews. I notice your technique of pretending you said something you originally didn't and I see an educated and extremely sophisticated ideologue behind the curtain.

--Brant

Brant, I'm not sure that you're understanding exactly what I've said or am saying and now I find this confusing. What is it that you think I was saying initially in the first place? That Muslims wouldn't have been able to kill Jews in the US?

I'll start over. See my next post this thread.

--Brant

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If it were truly our goal to rid the world of the Jews I can assure you that it would have already been done long ago.

Now, how would the Muslims do this today, if it were their goal? (BTW, I don't think any such thing of Muslims collectively.) And could have historically? (I understand that there is some question about the link of the Jews of today to the Jews depicted in the Bible.)

--Brant

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If it were truly our goal to rid the world of the Jews I can assure you that it would have already been done long ago.

Now, how would the Muslims do this today, if it were their goal? (BTW, I don't think any such thing of Muslims collectively.) And could have historically? (I understand that there is some question about the link of the Jews of today to the Jews depicted in the Bible.)

--Brant

Muslims wouldn't do it today because such an action would be forbidden in Islam in the first place. Historically they could have as the Jews for the most part lived in Muslim lands whilst they were being persecuted in Europe.

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If it were truly our goal to rid the world of the Jews I can assure you that it would have already been done long ago.

Now, how would the Muslims do this today, if it were their goal? (BTW, I don't think any such thing of Muslims collectively.) And could have historically? (I understand that there is some question about the link of the Jews of today to the Jews depicted in the Bible.)

--Brant

Muslims wouldn't do it today because such an action would be forbidden in Islam in the first place. Historically they could have as the Jews for the most part lived in Muslim lands whilst they were being persecuted in Europe.

Perhaps putting too fine a point on it, persecuted in Europe or not they in Europe were beyond the reach of Muslims except in Spain prior to the Muslims being expelled.

--Brant

this conversation is now jejune

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Second-class citizens, not too different to apartheid.

Tell me about it: my mother and her family came from such a Muslim land.

Interesting thought I had, that that's what might have saved them from persecution.

The European Jewry had for generations fully assimilated into their countries,

and look at the result.

(BTW. Der Spiegel has just published a finding that Neo-Nazis were involved

in the Munich Olympics killings. Why the cover-up for this long?)

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Perhaps putting too fine a point on it, persecuted in Europe or not they in Europe were beyond the reach of Muslims except in Spain prior to the Muslims being expelled.

--Brant

this conversation is now jejune

Where do you think they fled to when they were being persecuted in Europe?

Let's ask Rabbi Zarfati http://www.history.umd.edu/Faculty/BCooperman/EarlyMod/Zarfati%281454%29.htm:

Isaac Zarfati:

"O Israel, wherefore sleepest thou? Arise, and leave this accursed land forever!"

[somewhere in Turkey, probably 1454]

I have heard of the afflictions, more bitter than death, that have befallen our brethren in Germany -- of the tyrannical laws, the compulsory baptisms and the banishments, which are of daily occurrence. I am told that when they flee from one place a yet harder fate befalls them in another. I hear an insolent people raising its voice in fury against a faithful remnant living among them; I see its hand uplifted to smite my brethren. On all sides I learn of anguish of soul and torment of body; of daily exactions levied by merciless oppressors. The clergy and the monks, false priests that they are, rise up against the unhappy people of God and say: 'Let us pursue them even unto destruction; let the name of Israel be no more known among men.' They imagine that their faith is in danger because the Jews in Jerusalem might, peradventure, buy the Church of the Sepulchre. For this reason, they have made law that every Jew found upon a Christian ship bound for the East shall be flung into the sea. [Zarfati alludes here to the Bull of Pope Martin V forbidding the seafaring republics of Venice and Ancona to convey Jews to the Holy Land under pain of excommunication.] Alas! How evil are the people of God in Germany entreated; how sadly is their strength departed! They are driven hither and thither, and they are pursued even unto death. The sword of the oppressor ever hangs over their heads; they are flung into the devouring flames, into swift-flowing rivers and into foul swamps.

Brothers and teachers, friends and acquaintances! I, Isaac Zarfati, though I spring from a French stock, yet I was born in Germany, and sat there at the feet of my esteemed teachers. I proclaim to you that Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking, and where, if you will, all shall yet be well with you. The way to the Holy Land lies open to you through turkey. Is it not better for you to live under Moselems than under Christians? Here every man may dwell at peace under his own vine and fig-tree. [i Kings IV, 25; Is. XXXVI. 16; Mic. IV 4; Zech. III. 10.] Here you are allowed to wear the most precious garments. In Christendom, on the contrary, ye dare not even venture to clothe your children in red or in blue, according to your taste, without exposing them to insult of being beaten black and blue, or kicked red and green, and therefore are ye condemned to go about meanly clad in sad-colored raiment. All you days are full of sorrow, even the Sabbaths and the times appointed for feasting. Strangers enjoy your goods, and, therefore, of what profit is the wealth of your rich men? They hoard it but to their own sorrow, and in a day it is lost to them forever. Ye call your riches your own -- alas, they belong to them! they bring false accusations against you. They respect neither age nor wisdom; and though they gave you a pledge sealed sixty-fold, yet would they break it. they continually lay double punishment upon you, a death of torment and confiscation of goods. They prohibit teaching in your schools; they break in upon you during your hours of prayer; and they forbid you to work or conduct your business on Christian feast days . . .

And now, seeing all these things, O Israel, wherefore sleepest thou? Arise! and leave this accursed land forever. [Ps. XLIV. 23]

[pp. 283-285]

Second-class citizens, not too different to apartheid.

Tell me about it: my mother and her family came from such a Muslim land.

Interesting thought I had, that that's what might have saved them from persecution.

The European Jewry had for generations fully assimilated into their countries,

and look at the result.

(BTW. Der Spiegel has just published a finding that Neo-Nazis were involved

in the Munich Olympics killings. Anybody else see this? Why the cover-up for this long?)

Jews, for the most part were protected in places like the Ottoman Empire, Muslim Spain, Baghdad and Muslim Persia.

There were of course times when some rulers, fanatics came into power and began oppressing the Jews, using them as scape goats but this was not the norm and did not last.

In fact, the Ottoman Sultan Abdulmecid issued a ferman concerning the Blood Libel Accusation on October 27, 1840 saying:

"... and for the love we bear to our subjects, we cannot permit the Jewish nation, whose innocence for the crime alleged against them is evident, to be worried and tormented as a consequence of accusations which have not the least foundation in truth...".

Here are some more examples of Jews under the Ottoman empire

http://www.sephardicstudies.org/sultans1.html

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I'd rather have been a Jew in Muslim Spain (so I think) than later on with the Muslims gone. I think the Jews were expelled from Spain in the late 15th Century. Weren't they kicked out of Britain?

--Brant

I will not go for debating points--not what I'm about

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I'd rather have been a Jew in Muslim Spain (so I think) than later on with the Muslims gone. I think the Jews were expelled from Spain in the late 15th Century. Weren't they kicked out of Britain?

--Brant

I will not go for debating points--not what I'm about

I think it also depends on which time in Muslim Spain, in its decline it became more puritan and less pluralistic than previous imposing ridiculous rules on the People of the Book such as they have to wear certain clothes and can't ride horses as a means to subjugate them. Disgusting behavior.

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Second-class citizens, not too different to apartheid.

Tell me about it: my mother and her family came from such a Muslim land.

Interesting thought I had, that that's what might have saved them from persecution.

The European Jewry had for generations fully assimilated into their countries,

and look at the result.

That appears a dumb truism, I realise. My badly made point is not that Jews in Arab lands

avoided the Holocaust by simply not being in Europe, (obvious) but that if they had been 'first class'

citizens in Arab countries, their prominence - which they often achieve - could have brought about some

sort of similar end at the hands of Arabs.

The comparison to apartheid is not so much that blacks were ever brutally persecuted, en masse -

this was rare - but that they had little or no say in their own lives.

That they were treated like children was the greatest wrong.

LM, we could both cherry-pick the best and the worst of 500 years of the Jewish diaspora in

Muslim nations, but how can you explain away the desire for freedom to be a sovereign nation,

a self-determining people, who do not want to be "protected" like livestock?

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The comparison to apartheid is not so much that blacks were ever brutally persecuted, en masse -

this was rare - but that they had little or no say in their own lives.

That they were treated like children was the greatest wrong.

That's really not true. Life in the Ottoman Empire alone gave Jews a great deal of autonomy over their own lives rather than having little or nothing to say.

LM, we could both cherry-pick the best and the worst of 500 years of the Jewish diaspora in

Muslim nations, but how can you explain away the desire for freedom to be a sovereign nation,

a self-determining people, who do not want to be "protected" like livestock?

whYNOT, I have no problem with Jews having their own country, I also have no problem with it being in the Middle East.

I do have a problem when that is imposed on the Arabs and military force is used to establish it rather than negotiating a proper resolution. I also have a huge problem with the fact that there is no Palestinian state. But what REALLY makes me annoyed is the fact that the British engineered the conflict between the Jews and the Arabs and knew it would come to conflict, rather than approaching it properly. Examples of this are the fact that the British imposed a fanatic as the Mufti of the lands who was not voted in by the people, someone they knew was extreme rather than the person who was eager to negotiate with the Jews etc.

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  • 4 months later...

Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -- G. K. Chesterton

Infidel wrote:

So, what date has the war been put back to?

end quote

Our election is over. The war just started.

If one of the countries bordering America were lobbing rockets into the United States we would not tolerate it for one day. We have the means and the will to stop it permanently. And we would. We would not tolerate another Nine Eleven, or lesser terrorist action without extreme retribution.

The Palestinians have been killing Israelis for years. Israel has the means to stop the killing but they lack the will. Remember when they had Yasser Arafat’s gang on the run? After a ground action across the border Israel stopped itself from annihilating the bastards at America’s, the UN’s and the world’s urging.

Now look at the situation. More aggression. More deaths. And on top of this “more of the same,” the Palestinians are pre-nuclear Iran’s proxy in the region. Is this the beginning of the inevitable war between militant Islam and Israel . . . and the United States? It is time for action.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

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Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -- G. K. Chesterton

Infidel wrote:

So, what date has the war been put back to?

end quote

Our election is over. The war just started.

If one of the countries bordering America were lobbing rockets into the United States we would not tolerate it for one day. We have the means and the will to stop it permanently. And we would. We would not tolerate another Nine Eleven, or lesser terrorist action without extreme retribution.

The Palestinians have been killing Israelis for years. Israel has the means to stop the killing but they lack the will. Remember when they had Yasser Arafat’s gang on the run? After a ground action across the border Israel stopped itself from annihilating the bastards at America’s, the UN’s and the world’s urging.

Now look at the situation. More aggression. More deaths. And on top of this “more of the same,” the Palestinians are pre-nuclear Iran’s proxy in the region. Is this the beginning of the inevitable war between militant Islam and Israel . . . and the United States? It is time for action.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

I have a little parable. Moses who was our (referring to the Jews) our first king and leader, when he was a Prince Of Egypt saw a Egyptian task master flogging a Hebrew slave. Overcoming his primordial urge to be fair-minded and to consider the matter of slavery and violence toward slaves in its total psychological, philosophical and economic context he slew the taskmaster, that momser son-of-a-bitch and buried him in the sand. Moses was being atypically non-modern-liberal-Jewish in that act.

Jews have a problem. The are cursed with memory (things that happened 3300 years ago are regarded by many Jews as current events). They are cursed by a sense of decency and compassion because they know first hand what it is to be oppressed. Verily, I say that kind of tender mindedness may well be the death of us Jews.

Maybe we should be like Mcgarret of Hawai- Five-0. Fuckem' Danno!

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Ba'al Chatzaf wrote:

Maybe we should be like Mcgarret of Hawaii- Five-0. Fuckem' Danno!

end quote

Ah, the good old days! And Hah! the golden oldie. Your illustration of Moses killing the sadistic slave owner is well taken. Here is a letter I just sent to Bibi. Fox is just reporting that there is no cease fire at 15:22 Tuesday, November 20th.

To: Benjamin Netanyahu care of The Israeli Embassy

Ceasefires are always precarious when one of the sides is rabidly belligerent. Consider North Korea. South Korea and America have little ability to change the thinking of a totalitarian leadership or its people. The cease fire with North Korea is broken yearly by them, but a buffer remains intact after sixty years. Nuclear weapons are the deal breaker as it will be with Iran.

So what does have a chance of working? There must be a winner and a loser. Israel must be viewed as the winner of the war, so the Palestinians must be seen as beaten. Casualties on the Palestinian’s side count but their ability to lob rockets from close positions must be hampered, and that requires a “demilitarized zone.” When a rocket reaches Israel the zone it was fired from then becomes part of the demilitarized zone. If a way can be found to move the noncombatants out of that zone first fine, but the new “zone” should eventually be flattened and a fence extended to create a mined “no-man’s land.” Ground operations are required but I would minimize Israeli casualties by flattening the “zone” before any of your soldiers set foot on that ground.

She won’t do it, but imagine if Secretary of State Clinton went to Palestine and was kidnapped by those monsters. America may caution Israel to be super cautious but we would never be so timid.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

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Muslims wouldn't do it today because such an action would be forbidden in Islam in the first place. Historically they could have as the Jews for the most part lived in Muslim lands whilst they were being persecuted in Europe.

Although many Muslims do kill jews based on Islamic sanction. Hamas cites the very verse below in order to inspire fellow Jihadists.

"The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.” (Sahih Muslim, 41:6985; see also 41:6981-84 and Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:176,177 and 4:56:791)

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Jews have a problem. The are cursed with memory (things that happened 3300 years ago are regarded by many Jews as current events). They are cursed by a sense of decency and compassion because they know first hand what it is to be oppressed. Verily, I say that kind of tender mindedness may well be the death of us Jews.

Lots of 'peoples' have the same problem with memory. We can start anywhere in the world, and dig a few feet (or metres) to find oppression and sore racial memories of horror and brutality. The Jews have the same kind of memory as the Armenians (not to mention the Azeris), as do those who are non-Jewish and live in the Gaza strip. The Armenians have the same kind of memory as the Chinese, who recall their torments under Japan. The French of Quebec live each day (some of them) in a vengeful hurt. As the Japanese of Canada still hurt for wartime detention and confiscations and camp life.

The Jews were singled out for particular mechanized atrocity last century, and since self-supervised the population transfers of the last sixty years, when the world's Jews either self-deported or were bought or expelled gently or otherwise (esp from the Eastern and Arab worlds). The meme of the Jews in exile is powerful, as is their return as a nation with mighty arms.

Luckily, the land of opportunity, America, invites and gives refuge to all kinds of memories and all kinds of peoples. There are Jews who are ever-so-Jewish (like Bob here) but who do not think like he does, not least on the subject of the righteousness or the wrath of the Jews, or the punishment due to enemies. And right in front of him in the supermarket checkout a Palestinian.

More luckily, Bob is atheist, and cares not for Thor or Jahweh or Haile Selassie (so it's not about gods, just conduct).

While we witnessed dispirited wrangling on OL over how best to saddle a flying unicorn and then overturn the election, a small war in the Middle East came and went. Real catastrophes for the dead and grieving on both sides of the ceasefire line.

We are given to believe (if we can believe Hillary Clinton or the foreign minister of Egypt) that everyone was a winner in the game just played in Gaza and southern Israel. The deaths, destruction and injuries are not important, though the score was no more than a day's death in Syria. What is important is who won.

Hamas won because they got a few concessions. Egypt won because it led the negotiations with as much finesse as Mubarak (but quicker). Israel won because they got their basics (calm for calm). They have agreed to stop shelling by land and targetted assassinations. In a day or so we will see what else was negotiated. Most likely is an easing of the Israeli blockade.

The reason we had no comment on Gaza war/truce is probably because these are minor 'seismic' events, hardly even felt, compared to larger thumpings and crushings. The big kabooms take our notice.

The most seismic activity is next-door. Which fades into the background anyway. Which maybe can give us a bit of perspective on those who single out the Jews as particularly this or that.

Here is another means of appreciating the perspective of our times: one thousand years of war in five minutes. Good for all audiences. No blood or gore shown.

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I saw Robert Fisk's latest pomposity of an article leveling moralistic bile toward Israel(the man must by now

have lost any credibility for his distorted facts and insane assertions - even among the Left)

and I'm thinking it will be forever thus. The strong are condemned for being strong, the weak are

encouraged - worshiped - for being weak. The strong and self-responsible have been 'lucky'...obviously.

Yes, the Jews have always been very lucky...

The same double standards keep applying: "They" aren't as good as you - though we can't say that

explicitly - and you have to be punished by making you equal to them.

To say more, would be a self-admission the loony lefty Fisk cannot face - that men (their character and

future)are not determined by race and tribe, culture or genes, or even earlier circumstances.

Rather through individualism, self-value and life-value.

Coming from him, his 'compassion' is the last refuge of the hate-filled.

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  • 9 years later...

From Cavuto on Fox. Abbott labs planning to restart formula plant on June 4.

We need a “strategic reserve” of formula. Peter

Form Wikipedia: A strategic reserve is the reserve of a commodity or items that is held back from normal use by governments, organizations, or businesses in pursuance of a particular strategy or to cope with unexpected events. A document issued by the US Department of Defense in 2005 defines a strategic reserve as follows: "An external reinforcing force which is not committed in advance to a specific Major Subordinate Command, but which can be deployed to any region for a mission decided at the time by the Major NATO Commander."

There are several national and international projects aiming to preserve the existing natural wealth and diversity in case of mass extinction or a global catastrophe. The Svalbard Global Seed Vault facility, opened in 2008, focuses on collecting duplicate samples of plant seeds from all around the world and currently contains close to 1 million different agricultural seed samples. The final storage capacity is said to be 4.5 million seed samples. Another such institution, Frozen Ark, concentrates on DNA preservation of endangered animal species for generations.

Types of strategic reserve A strategic reserve can be: Financial in nature such as ring-fenced funding or capital reserves of a large corporation. A commodity, such as intervention stocks of food or petrol (see security of supply and strategic petroleum reserves) Specific machinery, such as railroad cars or steam locomotives, to be used in an emergency situation.

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