Robert Baratheon Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 (NOTE FROM MSK: This mountain of garbage was split off from here.)Besides, nobody was "handwaved away." RB was preaching. I said he was preaching. He got pissed and left.In poker, that's called a tell because that's exactly what preachers do when you don't agree with them and say they are preaching.A person without hidden issues like preaching agendas, vanity, etc. laughs it off. They know who they are and are not threatened by disagreement. The preacher needs compliance and shadows. Sunlight makes him scurry away. Is this what serves as justice on OL? Denial as prima facie evidence of guilt?This is what happens when the bargain-bin pop psychology in Michael's library is taken to too far an extreme. As someone who spent years working in a prosecutor's office, I can confirm that there is a wide range of reactions displayed by the falsely maligned. Anger and denial are among the most common (and justified). This Salem-witch-trial-like logic is unbecoming of a forum that claims to be dedicated to inquiry and reason.If Michael were truly concerned about "preaching," then he would concern himself with the most prolific and obvious offender here. Since this individual happens to be preaching Objectivist-friendly principles, Michael sings his praises instead, despite the person having irritated and creeped out nearly every other poster on the forum. The fact that you know exactly whom I'm describing is evidence that what I'm saying is true, as opposed to the fallacious heads-I-win-tails-you-lose rationale provided against my own alleged offense.Michael felt threatened by my inquiry into the limits of Objectivism, so he thumped his chest, misrepresented my statements, and repeated his "preacher" accusation ad nauseum. I halted the thread because I don't take that kind of shit from anyone, not because I was "exposed" by a super-sleuth moderator moonlighting as a cognitive scientist.Addition: I have never showed any problem with "disagreement" on this forum. In fact, there are numerous examples where I have welcomed it. I do have a problem with misrepresentation and baseless accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Eric,I thought you knew what you were talking about and was playing a mind game. But the fact is, looking at this last post, you simply don't know what you are talking about. Whatever...I'll spar on the mind game, but not on garden variety dumbness trying to play gotcha.Get up to speed and maybe we'll talk. Or better, go back to your drink and keep imagining you are above it all...MichaelFair enough, Michael.Just one thing: my inebriation and its associated anasthetic qualities give me the ability to stomach certain truths which can be intolerable to the sober ego. My thinking seems to flourish in the places most people ignore out of emotional self-preservation.I'm not saying one modality is better than the other.It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 RB,Still preaching are you?Are you a neurotic or something?Have you sold out and can't stand to look in the mirror?That's what I think is underneath your preaching. But no matter how much blah blah blah you throw around at others to hide that from yourself, there will still be you looking back at you from the mirror. That's not our problem. That's your problem.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Just one thing: my inebriation and its associated anasthetic qualities give me the ability to stomach certain truths which can be intolerable to the sober ego. My thinking seems to flourish in the places most people ignore out of emotional self-preservation.Eric,I can't condemn you because God knows I have been where you're at in more ways than one. I shouldn't even be alive.I will only say (and I say this from experience) that your rationalization here is horseshit. You get drunk because you like to get drunk. That's the prime mover.And that's on you, not on others. (Don't think I was any better back in the day. Self-pity party was my thing back then.)I feel for you, I accept you, and I wish you the best during this phase of your life, but I also see you.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 RB,Still preaching are you?Are you a neurotic or something?Have you sold out and can't stand to look in the mirror?That's what I think is underneath your preaching. But no matter how much blah blah blah you throw around at others to hide that from yourself, there will still be you looking back at you from the mirror. That's not our problem. That's your problem.MichaelIs this another one of your notes for the reader? We can only assume because you've labelled me a preacher who can't be reached or reasoned with. If we accept your accusation, then what are your posts now except preaching to your flock?Maybe it really does take one to know one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Is this another one of your notes for the reader?RB,Absolutely.You're only interested in discussing something intelligent if you can preach at people. Otherwise you bicker over petty little things concerning your vanity. (Look, for instance, at how you stalk Kacy constantly pretending he's the one who sold out, not you.) Do you really think I want to discuss ideas within that game?Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 RB,Absolutely.You're only interested in discussing something intelligent if you can preach at people. Otherwise you bicker over petty little things concerning your vanity. (Look, for instance, at how you stalk Kacy constantly pretending he's the one who sold out, not you.) Do you really think I want to discuss ideas within that game?MichaelMisrepresenting again. My point has always been that everyone has a price. The difference is I know what mine is.What is the purpose of this forum if bouncing ideas off other people is "preaching" that invites your scorn? The fact that I began my thread with open-ended questions counters your assertion that I am "only" interested in preaching at people. But I'm a preacher, this you know, because your pop-psych tells you so.When was the last time you checked your own premise in this dispute? Is it even remotely possible that you aren't an expert in my own private motivations for posting here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 My point has always been that everyone has a price. The difference is I know what mine is.RB,That's preaching.That's selling out.Other people live better than that. In fact, most regulars here at OL do. It's a morality thing.They have their mirrors, too. But they like what they see.You're the exception. You're the sellout.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 For the reader.Think about this.It must be awful going to bed knowing you sold your soul to the highest bidder you could find. And serving that master is what you can look forward to in the morning.What a horrible way to live.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 For what it's worth, I'm glad you're back, Robert. We're like pebbles in a tumbler... and we get polished by getting our rough edges knocked off on each other. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Michael - Who are you to tell me how "awful" my choices are, or to tell me how to live? How do you know what *I* see in the mirror each day? Know thyself, preacher. The flock is yours, although I never considered them as such, and I hope everyone here (but you) knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 My point has always been that everyone has a price. The difference is I know what mine is. I know what mine is, too. Jesus paid it and bought me. (sorry, couldn't resist) Greg (now that's preaching... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 RB,I'm not telling you.I'm looking at you, pointing at you and telling the reader what I think of it.You sold out. You preach about the virtue of selling out. I tell the reader this is an awful way to live.I can't tell you about this because I can't discuss anything serious with you.Other than that, be well. (I mean that. I wish you well.)I hope you find some peace of mind some day so you don't need to do all this silly crap.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Back when I was in moderation, I asked Michael about his hairtrigger accusations of "propaganda". It seemed that any ideas I put forth were labeled as such. So I had to wonder: at what point is ANYTHING we say to each other NOT "propaganda"? I never got a response. But it does show Mike is keenly aware of controlling The Narrative. Progressives understand this very well. Kudos to him. Unfortunately it leads me to being marginalized on this board. *single tear rolls down cheek*.I think Greg understands this very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 For what it's worth, I'm glad you're back, Robert. We're like pebbles in a tumbler... and we get polished by getting our rough edges knocked off on each other. GregOh great, so I get no love?I get it -- RB is a Jew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 I'm looking at you, pointing at you and telling the reader what I think of it.You sold out. You preach about the virtue of selling out. I tell the reader this is an awful way to live.If anyone can explain the difference between what Michael calls "preaching" and how he characterizes his own behavior in this thread, I will literally mail you a Whitman's sampler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 So I had to wonder: at what point is ANYTHING we say to each other NOT "propaganda"?Eric,I think you just identified your problem. To you communication = propaganda.Your words...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I know this.I sure am glad I don't sell out.I screw up at times, but I don't sell out.That makes me feel good about myself.I know lots of OL regulars feel the same.Being around others who don't sell out is part of the attraction of this forum for them.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 So I had to wonder: at what point is ANYTHING we say to each other NOT "propaganda"?Eric,I think you just identified your problem. To you communication = propaganda.Your words...MichaelI think you missed the part where my question was in direct response to your fingerpointing about MY "propaganda." And here I was thinking I was just communicating and sharing my thoughts. Even with a trollish bent, I wasn't attempting to steal your flock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Eric,There is no flock on OL. There are only individuals who speak for themselves. I try to provide value for them and keep the trolls from wrecking a good thing here. That's all.As to your point, your thoughts are nothing but propaganda. You said so. I merely agreed before you said it.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 SB,It's all "propaganda" within Michael's framework, and that is precisely the point. It serves the same function as impossible-to-meet fire or health codes for local restaurant owners. This hands the mayor a kill switch that can be activated at any time and for any reason as long as the pretext is violation. The key is only bringing down the hammer when someone actually threatens the regime. This is why blatant actual preachers like Greg are given free reign to continue their sermonizing as long as they stick to Objectivist tenets.Footnote: This is also why members here are free to rail against our very powerful government without a peep from its agents and enforcers. They pose no actual threat to its operations. The moment they became a real force to be reckoned with, they would be bought, harassed, or discredited. I know how it works - I'm one of THEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 This is also why members here are free to rail against the very real and powerful government without a peep from its agents and enforcers. They pose no actual threat to its operations. The moment they became a real force to be reckoned with, they would be bought, harassed, or discredited.Reader,Just look at that. will ya'?Obviously, before such a dire state of affairs, the best thing to do is sell out.What can you do? What can anyone do? It's not our fault!!!!! I mean, morality is for fools. So it's OK to be corrupt inside.Here's the way to do it right: obey, suck up to authority, and get yours.Right on, bro...(If only there weren't that damn mirror.)Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 As to your point, your thoughts are nothing but propaganda. You said so. I merely agreed before you said it.You're slipping Mike. Might be a good idea to put me in moderation again. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I mean, morality is for fools. So it's OK to be corrupt inside.Here's the way to do it right: obey, suck up to authority, and get yours.Right on, bro...(If only there weren't that damn mirror.)"Get yours"?it seems Eben Pagan has no problem with mirrors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Eric,Eben Pagan teaches on the free market. Free choice and all that. Definitely not public school.Also, the vast majority of his students love him and are repeat customers.He doesn't have his tongue lapping the butt of the government and telling everyone how great it tastes.I guess it's the Objectivist in me...(btw - You do realize my last post was satire, right?)Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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