Being a Teenage Objectivist


achaya

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Jeff,

I have not read the book, but you need to filter those questions through the lens of greed for them to not seem superficial. Greed is a very dangerous emotion and it can push us to involve our entire being in seeking unearned riches when the possibility gets near—so much so that we lose contact with reality.

Investing brings one such possibility. Gambling does too.

Greed is like fire. It is neither good or bad and can be used for both. But it will burn you if mishandled. I see those three questions as a checklist to keep the greed under control It is the primary blinding factor where money is involved.

Michael

Actually, Michael, the primary blinding factor is not to get hurt--i.e., lose money. Investors typically buy high and sell low. They do this by chasing performance and getting rid of what caused the pain: under-performance. They do this with both stocks and funds. In the airplane flying story of mine in my previous post the pilot is motivated to forget his instruments, fly by the seat of his pants and as a consequence would die out of the fear of being hurt. He does not do these things by the "greed" of safely getting to his destination. (However, greed does kill pilots who fly in marginal conditions, frequently at night to make it home. Get-to-it-itis. In this sense you are correct: greed will cause you to chase performance, fear will see to it that you under-perform. Or, fear is the other side of the greed coin: you are greedy out of fear or concern with not making money.)

--Brant

Edited by Brant Gaede
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Gonna have to agree with Brant on that one, Mike. Though they both apply at times. It's a question of personality, I think, whether you're more of a go-getter or afraid of failure.

I need coffee. I'm being Master of the Obvious again.

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  • 2 years later...

I have just discovered this website, and I am extremely pleased to find people with my same views on life. I learned about Objectivism in high school when I was a junior. Objectivism has changed my life, and I continue to uphold it at my university. I am a first-year student, but with junior status at my university where I am usually surrounded by students a few years older than me. I didn't realize before how many people are willing to use force for 'the common good' or just because it is 'moral.' I am surrounded by mostly arrogant socialists and fewer conservatives. Speaking my mind in the university compared to high school has become very difficult as I've done so before and recieved bad grades for my view of Objectivism.

It is even dangerous to speak of philosophy with 'friends' because they feel that the opposition is stupid and will insult you in any way possible. I personally don't care because I know that the rest are wrong, but it increasingly puts me in greater isolation from people. Sometimes I feel that I am crazy because everyone around me seems to think alike. I had a boyfriend in the begining of the quarter who was a Republican so he was close to being an Objectivist. With enough information on the philosophy, I got him to become interested in it, and he started agreeing with it. He became an athiest and started thinking as an Objectivist. Then something changed about him, and he started telling me that I am not pragmatic, that philosophy is just philosophy, and that people have an obligation to the poor. I lost him then, and what I thought was a rational human being immediately vanished.

I became cynical after incidents with my 'friends' and arguments over the philosophy of life with other people (left-wing professors). I know that I'm right, and since I'm surrounded by nonobjectivists in my university, I learned to be a spy, learn other peoples' points of view, collect as much information as possible, and then learn how to use it to my advantage later. But sometimes, it doesn't matter how hard you try to convince people of the truth. It just is a waste of energy because they don't care to open their eyes.

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I have just discovered this website, and I am extremely pleased to find people with my same views on life. I learned about Objectivism in high school when I was a junior. Objectivism has changed my life, and I continue to uphold it at my university. I am a first-year student, but with junior status at my university where I am usually surrounded by students a few years older than me. I didn't realize before how many people are willing to use force for 'the common good' or just because it is 'moral.' I am surrounded by mostly arrogant socialists and fewer conservatives. Speaking my mind in the university compared to high school has become very difficult as I've done so before and recieved bad grades for my view of Objectivism.

It is even dangerous to speak of philosophy with 'friends' because they feel that the opposition is stupid and will insult you in any way possible. I personally don't care because I know that the rest are wrong, but it increasingly puts me in greater isolation from people. Sometimes I feel that I am crazy because everyone around me seems to think alike. I had a boyfriend in the begining of the quarter who was a Republican so he was close to being an Objectivist. With enough information on the philosophy, I got him to become interested in it, and he started agreeing with it. He became an athiest and started thinking as an Objectivist. Then something changed about him, and he started telling me that I am not pragmatic, that philosophy is just philosophy, and that people have an obligation to the poor. I lost him then, and what I thought was a rational human being immediately vanished.

I became cynical after incidents with my 'friends' and arguments over the philosophy of life with other people (left-wing professors). I know that I'm right, and since I'm surrounded by nonobjectivists in my university, I learned to be a spy, learn other peoples' points of view, collect as much information as possible, and then learn how to use it to my advantage later. But sometimes, it doesn't matter how hard you try to convince people of the truth. It just is a waste of energy because they don't care to open their eyes.

You cannot connect to people thru Objectivism except thru on campus Objectivist clubs and such. Stick to the Internet. You need to learn and grow more. People get negative on you because you emphasize a philosophy you haven't digested fully and properly yet. Essentially you are unknowingly treating this philosophy as a religion and people are unconsciously recoiling from that. Emphasize who you are. Be centered on yourself. Not a philosophy. They are growing their own lives as you are yours. Emphasize rationality.

--Brant

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Kristya,

Excellent post. You are a fighter, and you have my most sincere respect for that.

I am no longer a teenager, but I also first ran into Rand’s philosophy when a junior in high school. And I also ran into a wall when encountering modern academic culture both in high school and later at college. Thus, I sympathize with you very much. It is a lonely place to be in. Damnably lonely.

Rand did not so intensely portray Howard Roark’s long, long struggles as a lone individualist for nothing. She experienced it herself intensely and knew that this is the path that independent thinkers must often tread. A long hard road.

Want advice from an old guy? Maybe not, but here it comes anyway: Hold unto and cherish that tremendous sense of youth and idealism that you have. It is the light of the world. Keep those ever-harrying dogs of cynicism at bay as much as possible. (They tend to drag at one’s heels, don’t they?) Embrace joy in your life, search for it, imagine it, invent it, create it, nurture it, and make it a shining and integral part of who you are as a sovereign individual. Joy, happiness – eudaimonia – makes all the struggles worthwhile.

I am in genuine awe at where you are standing right now, with your whole life before you. The hope of humanity is in the hands of young intellectuals like you.

I salute you.

.

-Ross Barlow.

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If a smart teenager is not an Objectivst by the time he/she is 18, he/she should check his/her premises. If he/she is still an Objectivist by the time he/she is 70, he/she should check his/her premises.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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  • 3 months later...

I was introduced to Objectivism when I was seventeen. I never fully truly identified with Objectivism until I was 18 or 19, but fully grasping the system (especially areas in technical epistemology) took me a long time. The derivation of the meta-ethics and what Objectivist epistemology says (and competing positions in the Problem of Universals) were the hardest elements to grasp, and unfortunately they are (at least in my judgement) the most vital elements of the system to grasp if one is to be a fully-functioning Objectivist.

I'm not sure I fully understood these elements until at least two years ago.

One thing I do love about Objectivism is its respect for the young. It usually treats young people as trying to be sane and rational, and most of the things that annoy many young people as being irrationality. Social conventions for instance are man-made, not metaphysical, and parents treating them as metaphysical things is an error on their part. Objectivism also demolishes so-called 'empirical' arguments that parents often invoke to avoid arguing, i.e. "I have more experience than you so shut-up-your-face." This argument is wrong because it ignores the fact that experience has a specific context, hence the folks are context-dropping.

Objectivism is liberating and empowering, especially for the young (Branden discussed this in his article on the subject, see http://www.nathanielbranden.com/catalog/pd...and_hazards.pdf ). I have found, however, it does have a tendency to cause conflict in social relations, specifically in terms of cognitive style. Objectivism appeals to and promotes a very "NT" style of cognition (I'm talking in terms of Myers-Briggs classification here) and this style occurs only in about 5% of the population in general (but about 85% of Objectivists!). Unfortunately, the majority of the human population have an "SF" style of cognition (Objectivists generally would consider this to be a tendency towards emotionalism, subjectivism and concrete-boundedness). This often creates a lot of difficulties in relating to others.

Note, I don't consider this a huge cost. I never did relate well to others and I never placed a huge value on it. But for at least some, the cost is significant. And no one, not even I, has no negative feelings about being somewhat socially alienated and lonely (I have mixed feelings about it.. the loss of potential value is depressing, but I can't make people better than they are).

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I first met up with Rand's work in my mid twenties. I was too old at that point to have teen-age enthusiasm but I was greatly impressed. Reading -Atlas Shrugged- for me was not so much an eye-opener, but rather it was a confirmation of a system of thinking I had formulated for myself, which I call Reality Lite.

It goes like this:

1. There is an Out There out there.

2. We have the means to comprehend enough of what is Out There not only to survive, but to flourish.

3. One is not beholden to any other. It is sufficient not to wrong one's neighbor and to do no malice or harm to others. One lives one's own life.

4. The Cosmos does not really care what we think, only we do. Nature is as it is and it is our burden to learn to live in Nature.

What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours. And the key to social peace is Good Manners more than Morality.

Live long and prosper.

Ba'al Chatzaf (I should have been a Vulcan)

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Krystia, can I just add a bit of unsolicited advice, having been there and seen it. I love seeing a bright young 'un grasping reason and freedom. There's little enough being taught out there. So, go with it. Savor it. But ... (you just knew a but was coming, right?), please don't make a mistake I've seen sooo many young Objectivists make: and that is, taking pride is feeling alone and isolated. All of Rand's characters are isolated and don't seem to mind. Here's my problem with that: They can't seem to have any social contact with anyone who disagrees with their views. Actually, that particular problem gets worse with each of Rand's fiction. In We The Living, Kira is delighted and eager to attend a party. It's something different. She doesn't care there might be people there who don't share all of her views. In the Fountainhead, Roark can go out and have a drink with Mike. By the time we get to the Atlas, her characters seem to be totally isolated, and not in a good way. Dagny is lonely, walking the streets as she passes movie theaters and bookstores. Everything disgusts her. I've never understood her inability to just see a movie that wasn't the greatest on earth. Not every movie is going to be. Her poor assistant is working Thanksgiving. For pete's sake, can't he find anyone he can stand to share a meal with for the holiday? It doesn't have to be a soulmate. Just a pleasant neighbor who knows how to fix a damn turkey would suffice for me.

Too many Objectivists take pride is being antisocial. I think it's so detrimental. What's wrong with having lunch with one's fellow students and office mates, even if they have some different views? Too many objectivists go around calling people like that "subhuman" and live isolated lives. It's a shame. I don't think it makes for a lot of happiness.

Hey kid, at my age, I've earned the right to lecture. Just think about it, okay?

Ginny

Edited by ginny
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Krystia, can I just add a bit of unsolicited advice, having been there and seen it. I love seeing a bright young 'un grasping reason and freedom. There's little enough being taught out there. So, go with it. Savor it. But ... (you just knew a but was coming, right?), please don't make a mistake I've seen sooo many young Objectivists make: and that is, taking pride is feeling alone and isolated. All of Rand's characters are isolated and don't seem to mind. Here's my problem with that: They can't seem to have any social contact with anyone who disagrees with their views. Actually, that particular problem gets worse with each of Rand's fiction. In We The Living, Kira is delighted and eager to attend a party. It's something different. She doesn't care there might be people there who don't share all of her views. In the Fountainhead, Roark can go out and have a drink with Mike. By the time we get to the Atlas, her characters seem to be totally isolated, and not in a good way. Dagny is lonely, walking the streets as she passes movie theaters and bookstores. Everything disgusts her. I've never understood her inability to just see a movie that wasn't the greatest on earth. Not every movie is going to be. Her poor assistant is working Thanksgiving. For pete's sake, can't he find anyone he can stand to share a meal with for the holiday? It doesn't have to be a soulmate. Just a pleasant neighbor who knows how to fix a damn turkey would suffice for me.

Too many Objectivists take pride is being antisocial. I think it's so detrimental. What's wrong with having lunch with one's fellow students and office mates, even if they have some different views? Too many objectivists go around calling people like that "subhuman" and live isolated lives. It's a shame. I don't think it makes for a lot of happiness.

Hey kid, at my age, I've earned the right to lecture. Just think about it, okay?

Ginny

Amen!

I would only add that Objectivism is good because it approves of and enables your happiness, not you because you adhere to Objectivism.

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Just having being introduced to Objectivism as a philosophy in life, I began to wonder; what is it like being a teenager and identifying with Objectivism? The more I read about it and the more information I gather, the more I see how identifying with and, furthermore, living this philosophy could be frustrating for teenagers surrounded by people who don't (for lack of a better term) "get it". So, what's it like? I would answer this question myself if it wasn't for me being completely and utterly new to the subject.

Your thoughts?

Achaya,

In Atlas Shrugged, John Galt comes to understand just what has caused the society to devolve. He is a young man who has his life ahead of him and realizes he doesn't want to live in society as it has become but would prefer to find others who share his vision of how it ought to be and who are as committed to reason and reality and to life on this Earth.

In a way you are in an analogous situation given the state of our society today and the direction it appears to be heading. Objectivism is the philosophy for living on Earth and your life and happiness depend on your being in touch with the reality of things around you. Then it is up to you to decide what you want to do with your life. That involves pursuit of a career, friendships, romantic relationships, education, interests and some recognition of the world situation and that of your own society. Then the question is what role do you want to play.

If you lived in Colonial times in America would you have been moved to participate in the events of the revolution and of the formation of the new independent nation?

I expect you see where this is going if you have been noticing my posts here.

The sister organization of the Campaign For Liberty is the Young Americans for Liberty:

www.campaignforliberty.com

www.YALiberty.org

www.GiveMeLiberty.org

The YAL is present on over 125 campuses whereas it was on only 40 to begin with.

I am not suggesting that you do anything more than just to be aware of these organizations and to decide for yourself whether they are on the right track and if so whether you might want to get involved to any extent. I am an Objectivist of sorts in that I fortunately have always shared the basic tenets of it in the realms of metaphysics, epistemology and ethics. That simply means that even as a child I rejected the mystical religious perspective of reality in favor of the scientific view of nature, a belief in the natural order of things, the law of identity, and the conviction that things have happened naturally without any belief in supernatural entities outside of science fantasy.

I know that there are some Objectivists involved in the Campaign For Liberty and others as well who find the super religious as offensive and likely to turn off anyone who looks at the movement and discovers hyperreligious folks who might be hoping to make the movement in their image. I am hoping that there are enough rational people in the movement to win that ideological struggle within the movement. So far I think there are enough rational people in this movement to constitute a significant percentage of the membership.

The younger one is I should think the more one would be interested in helping to restore our Constitutional Republic because this battle is going on and you will be living in the country whichever way it turns out.

gulch

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  • 4 months later...

What changes have I seen since becoming an Objectivist? I'm happier, in short. I am aware of what to value, and exactly what that means. The mood swings I used to get have gone down in frequency and severity, although I still get them when I'm under stimulated/bored.

My interactions with others? My friends are still my friends, and I talk of philosophy with them. Some of my friends have a lot in common with Objectivism. My talking to them has brought them more towards it, through either direct interest in it or just the separate ideas of it. I do technically have friends who stray very far away from my beliefs, but they're loose friends and more of amusements truthfully. I can't be a real friend to somebody I have no respect for. Simple as that.

Issues with teachers? I've always had them. The subjects have changed.

Having a healthy ego and knowing what one values makes relationships much easier. I'm quite happy with my girlfriend at the moment, although in truth, many of things I respect in her are implicit, and partly the things I love her for are her potential. But she can learn new information so quickly, and the youthful spirit and glee I see in her, and how we live together so very harmoniously and happily... I am quite in love, and with the knowledge I have now, instead of vague disconnected ideas I had before, I can say that with a consistent meaning behind it. And enjoying it as a purely selfish manner, with a healthy ego, makes the relationship work that much better.

Issues with people condemning me? Why should I care? If they have a valid point, I will change. If they don't, then they are irrelevant.

The biggest issues I've had were people that seem to have a broken record in their throat: "Thats just your opinion", "There is no right and wrong when it comes to this", "Morality is separate from logic",ect. Religious arguments, social arguments, and nihilist arguments. But these are minor issues.

However, I still have some flaws I need to correct. My lax attitude with schoolwork is probably going to kick me a bit later in life, and thats simply unacceptable. However, with the dubious value of the actual schoolwork, and the mood swings that result in me from the idiotic work, I have trouble putting any time into it. I manage around B grades, but I'm going to need to get those up in college.

That, and I need to keep myself motivated, and find some constructive work to do. When I stagnate, my mood turns sour quickly.

But, I digress. Objectivism is a philosophy that allows the individual to flourish. Age is not a prerequisite to gain from it.

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I have just discovered this website, and I am extremely pleased to find people with my same views on life. I learned about Objectivism in high school when I was a junior. Objectivism has changed my life, and I continue to uphold it at my university. I am a first-year student, but with junior status at my university where I am usually surrounded by students a few years older than me. I didn't realize before how many people are willing to use force for 'the common good' or just because it is 'moral.' I am surrounded by mostly arrogant socialists and fewer conservatives. Speaking my mind in the university compared to high school has become very difficult as I've done so before and recieved bad grades for my view of Objectivism.

It is even dangerous to speak of philosophy with 'friends' because they feel that the opposition is stupid and will insult you in any way possible. I personally don't care because I know that the rest are wrong, but it increasingly puts me in greater isolation from people. Sometimes I feel that I am crazy because everyone around me seems to think alike. I had a boyfriend in the begining of the quarter who was a Republican so he was close to being an Objectivist. With enough information on the philosophy, I got him to become interested in it, and he started agreeing with it. He became an athiest and started thinking as an Objectivist. Then something changed about him, and he started telling me that I am not pragmatic, that philosophy is just philosophy, and that people have an obligation to the poor. I lost him then, and what I thought was a rational human being immediately vanished.

I became cynical after incidents with my 'friends' and arguments over the philosophy of life with other people (left-wing professors). I know that I'm right, and since I'm surrounded by nonobjectivists in my university, I learned to be a spy, learn other peoples' points of view, collect as much information as possible, and then learn how to use it to my advantage later. But sometimes, it doesn't matter how hard you try to convince people of the truth. It just is a waste of energy because they don't care to open their eyes.

Wow, I really don't know where to start with this.

The bottom line, for what it's worth, is to dedicate your intellectual approach to life to the search for truth. Objectivism touches an emotional nerve in the young that in my opinion is dangerous.

Regardless, if you are truly dedicated to intellectual growth and truth, then investigate and study other - dare I say - more academic philosophies, there's a whole world of competing viewpoints out there and guess what? They're not all crap.

"and that people have an obligation to the poor. I lost him then,"

Hmmm... Science, not philosophy, but evidence-based science says that altruism (perhaps not Rand's exact take on it) is built into us genetically. If you lost him because of this then YOU screwed up.

Edited by Bob_Mac
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Welcome Alex. Enjoy your stay on OL. What year are you in school?

Senior year of highschool.

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Alex:

Forget all the advice we are giving you as we are not in your skin. Where would you feel comfortable? Standing for ideas with integrity can be accomplished in many

ways.

I would love to hear your musings or thoughts on how you, knowing your strengths and weaknesses, might approach the path you wish to travel.

Have you decided "what you want to do"? What gives you joy in addition to your lovely lady?

Adam

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Alex,

Yo.

:)

I say keep that searching for meaning coming. You sound like you have a fine mind.

As to mood swings, you will find some stuff in Nathaniel Branden's works to help, but he takes you deep inside yourself. For a more practical potential-->action-->results-->attitude cycle, I am a fan of Tony Robbins. I get the big moral issues from Rand, but one of the main actions in her fiction is that her heroes demand compliance from the world on pain of them walking away. This has not served me well. I have done it on several occasions and all that really happened in the long term was that I got hurt. Worse. I did not continue on my journey to excellence on the paths I abandoned. Instead I chose other paths and started new journeys.

This is where Tony Robbins (and some other motivational people) come in. He and others give you practical systems you can use to discipline striving for excellence. This has helped with my own mood swings like nothing else I have tried. It's a good feeling to know that when the world is getting me down and people are acting like assholes all the time, I can actually change some of them toward excellence by the changes I make in myself and by understanding human motivation in general. Win-win for all. And the way these motivational guys have you do it is fun.

Some of these dudes trigger my BS meter. Pure garbage or rehashed leftovers. But not all. There's some really good stuff out there if you look.

There are times I still walk away. You have to. But now, only on certified assholes. When something or someone is hopeless, or the benefit to my life is seriously out of balance, it is not worth my precious unrepeatable hours and minutes to insist on making things better. (I also take down bad guys who threaten and attack things and people I love, but that's another issue.)

I wish I had cultivated this attitude when I was your age. You wouldn't believe the crap I used to say to other kids, many of whom were good kids but thought I was a dork and a loser. I still get the urge once in a while to go back and rub some of my successes in their noses. :)

Nowadays this is funny. But back then it wasn't.

Anyway, just a thought.

Michael

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I get the big moral issues from Rand, but one of the main actions in her fiction is that her heroes demand compliance from the world on pain of them walking away. This has not served me well. I have done it on several occasions and all that really happened in the long term was that I got hurt.

I can relate to that Micheal. I spent a good part of my life withdrawing and I fear it has done more harm than good. :)

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Hehe. I should call her that some time, especially if it makes her smile as much as it does me.

But anyhoo. My desired future? I wish to teach economics, preferablly at a college level, but I am quite aware that I, realistically, must do teach at a HS level first. If, upon getting my masters in economics with plenty of classes in teaching, I can not get said job, I will either teach history, or take the economic degree and go into accounting/banking until my preferred position is available.

What gives me joy? Economics, if you haven't already guessed. History as well. I enjoy discussing philosophy a great deal, although speaking with some folk can tire me quickly. I enjoy reading a great deal, although I have not read much fiction lately. At the moment, I'm reading "The Forgotten Man", which concerns FDR's new deal, and "Economics in One Lesson", a book reccomended by the Ludwig von Mises institute, which outlines basic economic matters and goes into special detail into the common fallacies of economics. Its quite well written. I've already read AS, the fountainhead, some of anthem (never finished back in the day), we the living, and the new intellectual. I'm working on The Virtue of Selfishness at the moment, and plan on acquiring more of the objectivist books, while also looking into more economic matters.

Lets see... I'm quite the fan of video games when I find a good one, especially things such as Call of Duty (military game). Hanging out with friends of course. Don't really watch TV. I love going to local coffee houses and chatting. I surf the internet a good deal.

As for standing for ideas? I do it bluntly and directly. Quite simply, with a few exceptions, if a person cannot bear my straightforwardness, I have no interest in talking to them.

Is there anything else you would like to know?

Alex:

Forget all the advice we are giving you as we are not in your skin. Where would you feel comfortable? Standing for ideas with integrity can be accomplished in many

ways.

I would love to hear your musings or thoughts on how you, knowing your strengths and weaknesses, might approach the path you wish to travel.

Have you decided "what you want to do"? What gives you joy in addition to your lovely lady?

Adam

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Hmmmm. Thanks for the advice, although I rather dislike motivational speakers. I have had little experience with them, so perhaps I should look more into it.

As for assholes? Don't care that much. Now, if I get them as a boss or a teacher, its an issue, but I can deal with it. Although what I'm finding to be particularly annoying at the moment is that I have a teacher who it very skilled 2/3rds of the time and a cool dude, but is a bit of an ass in occasional chunks. Its odd. Still easily dealt with. As for a boss? I haven't got a job yet, but as far as I see it, I either ignore it and earn my paycheck in the most enjoyable production way still possible, or get another job if the situation allows. Walking out on the world seems more relevant when the world demands that your slavery in a more direct fashion. Given, Galt called it well, but I have no such foresight, no such convenient valley, and no amass of capital, no such survival skill, and no such ability. And, quite frankly, the US isn't despotic yet, so its not yet required.

If it ever does turn into the USSR or worse? Then the forest will look better. But I'm not going to plan my life around that.

Alex,

Yo.

:)

I say keep that searching for meaning coming. You sound like you have a fine mind.

As to mood swings, you will find some stuff in Nathaniel Branden's works to help, but he takes you deep inside yourself. For a more practical potential-->action-->results-->attitude cycle, I am a fan of Tony Robbins. I get the big moral issues from Rand, but one of the main actions in her fiction is that her heroes demand compliance from the world on pain of them walking away. This has not served me well. I have done it on several occasions and all that really happened in the long term was that I got hurt. Worse. I did not continue on my journey to excellence on the paths I abandoned. Instead I chose other paths and started new journeys.

This is where Tony Robbins (and some other motivational people) come in. He and others give you practical systems you can use to discipline striving for excellence. This has helped with my own mood swings like nothing else I have tried. It's a good feeling to know that when the world is getting me down and people are acting like assholes all the time, I can actually change some of them toward excellence by the changes I make in myself and by understanding human motivation in general. Win-win for all. And the way these motivational guys have you do it is fun.

Some of these dudes trigger my BS meter. Pure garbage or rehashed leftovers. But not all. There's some really good stuff out there if you look.

There are times I still walk away. You have to. But now, only on certified assholes. When something or someone is hopeless, or the benefit to my life is seriously out of balance, it is not worth my precious unrepeatable hours and minutes to insist on making things better. (I also take down bad guys who threaten and attack things and people I love, but that's another issue.)

I wish I had cultivated this attitude when I was your age. You wouldn't believe the crap I used to say to other kids, many of whom were good kids but thought I was a dork and a loser. I still get the urge once in a while to go back and rub some of my successes in their noses. :)

Nowadays this is funny. But back then it wasn't.

Anyway, just a thought.

Michael

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  • 3 months later...

As to mood swings, you will find some stuff in Nathaniel Branden's works to help, but he takes you deep inside yourself. For a more practical potential-->action-->results-->attitude cycle, I am a fan of Tony Robbins. I get the big moral issues from Rand, but one of the main actions in her fiction is that her heroes demand compliance from the world on pain of them walking away. This has not served me well. I have done it on several occasions and all that really happened in the long term was that I got hurt. Worse. I did not continue on my journey to excellence on the paths I abandoned. Instead I chose other paths and started new journeys.

This is where Tony Robbins (and some other motivational people) come in. He and others give you practical systems you can use to discipline striving for excellence. This has helped with my own mood swings like nothing else I have tried. It's a good feeling to know that when the world is getting me down and people are acting like assholes all the time, I can actually change some of them toward excellence by the changes I make in myself and by understanding human motivation in general. Win-win for all. And the way these motivational guys have you do it is fun.

You got value from Tony Robbins? I'm shocked that anybody gets value from him.

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Chris,

Shocked?

You mean you think all the people who spend money on Tony Robbins do not believe they are exchanging value for value?

Considering the size of his public and the millions of dollars people constantly spend, I would be shocked if what you said were the case. But the fact that people get value from Tony Robbins? Hell, I find that to be quite commonplace.

Michael

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Chris,

Shocked?

You mean you think all the people who spend money on Tony Robbins do not believe they are exchanging value for value?

Considering the size of his public and the millions of dollars people constantly spend, I would be shocked if what you said were the case. But the fact that people get value from Tony Robbins? Hell, I find that to be quite commonplace.

Michael

Millions of people gave money to Barack Obama, too.

I was hoping that this might lead to a discussion of whether or not what Robbins teaches is of value or not. I can already see that it isn't going to.

Actually, I don't remember much about that one book of his that I read back in 1995 or 1996. I just remember that it was pretty worthless.

Edited by Chris Baker
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