the fake obamafainter...

[moralist]

You just have to see this...

This little stunt is poorly contrived because the President actually believes that people are too stupid to notice. This disgusting excuse for a human being has utter contempt for Americans.

[BaalChatzaf]

Even if a cost justification could be found for government support distribution of health care services, the manner in which the Obama administration is running the ACA is clear evidence of administrative incompetence. There are single payer, government based health plans in the world that actually

-work-. For example Germany and France. And their costs of providing health care are much lower per capita than in the United States. So aside from any ethical and political objections to government supported health care there are the central questions of execution and cost. The Obama administration has created a Camel which is a Horse designed by government.

There are few things the U.S. government does well. It has done a fine job of coastal and geodetic survey and the GPS, run by the military works in a superlative fashion. However once we move into broad policy areas and areas of social and economic import the incompetence of the U.S. government is plain to see.

[Brant Gaede]

It's been fake city for so long, so far back, you have to give Zero props if only for the part he has played so well as a Chicago come to Washington boy pretending to be a President of the United States courtesy of our "God-damn America" media.

--Brant

of the insurance companies, by the insurance companies, for the insurance companies

[PDS]

I'm not buying it.

People sometimes smile when they are nervous.

Not very smart people do so for no apparent reason, especially with cameras and a President nearby.

I wouldn't exactly call this a Zapruder event.

[syrakusos]

This seems to be a trope for the President:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPzboLdqKy4

That presentation shows several of these incidents.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Greg,

If you press the share option on YouTube and use the shortened code it provides, the video will automatically embed in OL posts. The URL from the browser on YouTube will only show up as a URL on OL. I fixed your post because this exposure of Obamatricks is important.

But I disagree with the voice-over woman from Lady Patriots in the video. She speculated that Obama did this so we make a direct connection between his message and the fainting lady, that we feel sorry for her or feel her need for Obamacare something like that, but that's not why he did it.

Obama is doing a character-enhancing public maneuver to set himself up as highly empathetic to suffering and also be seen as the hero who saves the day. It's a way to make people like him even if they don't, and if they already do, to like him even more. It's a subconscious frame he throws out at his audience so they will absorb the rest of his message through it.

In Hollywood, there is a very cute book that explains this called Save The Cat! The Last Book on Screenwriting You'll Ever Need by Blake Snyder. From the book (Introduction, p. xv):

... liking the person we go on a journey with is the single most important element in drawing us into the story. Which brings us to the title of this book: Save the Cat!

Save the what?

I call it the "Save the Cat" scene. They don't put it into movies anymore. And it's basic. It's the scene where we meet the hero and the hero does something — like saving a cat — that defines who he is and makes us, the audience, like him.

Obama has his "Save the Fainter" scene.

That amazing video MM posted shows just how rehearsed this stunt it.

Don't forget that the demographic bulk of Obama's supporters (in terms of quantity of votes) is made up of people who are unsophisticated and totally clueless about current events. So I believe he doesn't even care if more intelligent people discover what he is doing. It's like a magic trick. So long as he cons the gullible, he gets their vote.

And, as gravy, many of his intelligent supporters who detect the trick think he's cleverly beating his opposition because he's so smart. He's outfoxing the foxes, so to speak.

Here's a mission for any ambitious investigative journalist, even the conspiracy wing. Find a list of people who have fainted at Obama events and the people who were with them at the time. Then look into their personal finances and see whether they have received some unexpected boon from somewhere. Then follow the money.

I wonder where that trail would end, I wonder.

Michael

[Selene]

Michael:

It is always about following the money.

Trouble is the risk reward ratio gets quite wide the closer you get to the source of the money. Risk ^ Rewad V

I think I phased that properly.

A...

[Robert Baratheon]

I doubt the politicians have prior knowledge in most of these cases (Tony Soprano doesn't want to know the details), although the phony baloney response is clearly scripted and follows a formula. The most likely explanation is some combination of lower-level campaign plants, a few legitimate blackout or dizzyness (not fainting) cases, and people who either consciously or subconsciously wanted the attention or to help out their candidate.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

RB,

That's plausible, but there are way too many scripted elements to Obama's shtick for me to agree with you in his case. I admit there might be a case or other of a person actually fainting and/or overzealous fan, but I seriously doubt Obama leaves this to chance. Don't forget, he has to know about it because he has the script he follows when dealing with it. And he always "knows" in advance the person who fainted is all right, i.e., did not suffer a stroke, heart attack, etc. He even says so right on the spot.

One impression people often get when discussing these things is that a show like Obama puts on relies a lot on a single scene like this. But it doesn't work that way.

There is a strategy called "stacking." You stack the covert persuasion techniques one on top of the other (actually, you roll them out one after another, but for some reason "stacking" became the metaphor for this) and they finally reach a tipping point. I once saw a marketer (Mark Hoverson) give a speech where he presented a great imaginary visual for this metaphor.

He said imagine a seesaw with a pile of the prospect's money on one end and an empty pot attached to the other. You put one technique in the pot, then another, then another and so on. Soon the seesaw starts evening out. Eventually, as you keep stacking, it gets so lopsided that the prospect's money falls toward you. There will be no need to go get it.

There are so many little persuasion gimmicks Obama constantly uses that to infer coincidence for something as basic as "Save the Cat" steps outside of credulity for me.

Michael

[Robert Baratheon]

Allow me to clarify: it's obvious there was prior coaching for these "fainting" situations. If we're being kind, we can justify the rehearsed response on the basis that the candidate has to be prepared and respond appropriately. If we're being more cynical (my personal choice), it's a deliberate strategy for exploiting these situations for political advantage.

Politicians today are celebrities who have dozens of professional handlers and hundreds of staffers who follow them around and take care of all the little details for them. They are rarely alone or directly involved. It's difficult for me to believe that Obama is personally involved in orchestrating these shenanigans. The risk of exposure is far too great and the damage would be enormous - all it would take is one leak (a huge problem in the White House) or disgruntled staffer to ruin the campaign. Per my example, it's the same as mob bosses who deliberately insulate themselves from the hits and collections that they know take place under them. Much more likely, one of Obama's handlers or staffers arranged for the person to faint, or the supporter decided to faint on their own for personal attention or to generate empathy for their candidate.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter much whether Obama was personally involved as long as we recognize that these "human moments" are a show being put on to play on our emotions. If we view Obama as the brand, it's all marketing to bolster the brand. It's not particularly important whether it's the CEO or the lowest level salesman responsible.

[Selene]

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[syrakusos]

... but I seriously doubt Obama leaves this to chance. ... And he always "knows" in advance the person who fainted is all right, i.e., did not suffer a stroke, heart attack, etc. He even says so right on the spot.

Michael

Yes, I noticed that, also. He never confers with anyone or looks to someone else but delivers the judgment from the lecturn or from the stage. He calls for fruit juice, then tosses out a bottle of water. Wow... How'd he know? Again, with all the security people at an event like that, it falls to his shoulders...

However, I do not agree that Obama is the mastermind. He is indeed following a script. He did not write it. He is the fair-haired boy of some faction and they have Joseph Biden in place to watch over him at the policy level. No telling who else does what else. President Obama is just doing as he is told.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

RB,

I agree that Obama may not know which person is going to faint in each speech. I find it difficult to believe he is not aware that the fainting trick is part of the overall persuasion scheme.

Scratch that. Knowing what I have learned and seeing what he constantly does, I find it impossible to believe it. In fact, I believe he personally signed off on it when setting up his team and strategies.

He may not have come up with the idea, but if you look at the video MM posted, you will see he certainly enjoys playing the script. So he knows what's going on.

The buck does stop with him.

Michael

[Robert Baratheon]

I viewed the "she's probably okay... get her water... give her space... do this... do that..." routine a bit differently. The point of the script, to me, was that he took charge and remained cool, calm, and collected during a "crisis" situation while directing everyone around him. The takeaway is supposed to be that he's a natural leader: both confident and compassionate, always knowing exactly what to do - in other words, building a cult of personality around the poster boy.

It doesn't particularly matter for this purpose if the person later turned out to be having a heart attack or a seizure. In fact, that's even more politically desirable. I assure you his staffers have another script and contingency plan prepared for that possibility as well.

Through my current job, I regularly draft letters and remarks for the head of a major federal agency. I assure you, these political-types don't say or do anything without it being prepared, reviewed, and signed off on by dozens of people before it even arrives at their desk. Nothing is left to chance, everything is scripted, and the individual him or herself is irrelevant. The flip side of this is that nothing is executed without lots and lots of people being involved - hence all the leaks in these organizations. There are no one-on-one meetings with anyone who can actually make things happen.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

RB,

I get the feeling we agree with each other.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

... but I seriously doubt Obama leaves this to chance. ... And he always "knows" in advance the person who fainted is all right, i.e., did not suffer a stroke, heart attack, etc. He even says so right on the spot.

Michael

Yes, I noticed that, also. He never confers with anyone or looks to someone else but delivers the judgment from the lecturn or from the stage. He calls for fruit juice, then tosses out a bottle of water. Wow... How'd he know? Again, with all the security people at an event like that, it falls to his shoulders...

However, I do not agree that Obama is the mastermind. He is indeed following a script. He did not write it. He is the fair-haired boy of some faction and they have Joseph Biden in place to watch over him at the policy level. No telling who else does what else. President Obama is just doing as he is told.

Then he's not the President.

--Brant

[Robert Baratheon]

Then he's not the President.

--Brant

There is no real "President" in the sense that there is no real Batman beyond the popular concept. There are real people who play Batman, and there are real people who write his lines and illustrate his comics, but there is no superhero that actually goes out and fights crime.

The "President" is a brand of politics led, marketed, and administered by a large group of people in plain view who tell the celebrity in chief where to be, what to say, and when to do it. In exchange for being a pawn of the real power brokers, the spokesman and logo of the party gets to enjoy a glamorous hypocrite's lifestyle and be worshiped by millions of people.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

RB,

Actually I disagree with this. I don't believe either side, backstage or frontstage, is the puppet of the other.

They are intertwined and in constant power flux with each other.

The king and kingmakers each have a part, and it's not as simple as puppet and master.

Michael

[Selene]

Ya gotta love C. Wright Mills and The Potwer Elite [1956].

S.D.S. and the New Left in America

The New Left in the United States emerged out of the student movement, especially S.D.S. – Students for a Democratic Society.

C. Wright Mills was not himself a student at the time, or participant in this movement but he was able to give a Marxist voice to it, and his books critising the “power elite” – later to be called the “military-industrial complex” – sold by the million.

See The Power Elite, C. Wright Mills, 1956.

It was C. Wright Mills who definined the term “New Left,” when he published an Open Letter to the New Left, addressed to the editors of the New Left Review in Britain, but indirectly addressing the new social movements in the U.S. and Europe.

C. Wright Mills died at the young age of 45, but his decidedly “beatnik” persona was continued by the younger generation of the New Left in America.

Marshall Berman found the works of the young Marx – including the Communist Manifesto – spoke to him in a way that the dry tracts of orthodox Marxism he had been exposed to before did not.

The above is from http://www.marxists.org/subject/humanism/index.htm A site about Marxist Humanism and there are some very interesting names in the history.

[Backlighting]

The sad thing is the President has a huge audience who are living unconsciously.

They see him as the messiah.

[Selene]

The Higher Circles

The Chief Executives

The Warlords

The Military Ascendancy

The Mass Society

The Higher Immorality

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Book_Excerpts/PowerElite.html

[Samson Corwell]

I'm not sure if I'd say it was fake. Even if it was, I don't see what it would gain for Obama.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I'm not sure if I'd say it was fake. Even if it was, I don't see what it would gain for Obama.

Samson,

I'm sorry. I thought I was clear about the benefit.

Faking fainting scenes like Obama does is one component of a covert persuasion strategy. Obama gains by being able to covertly persuade... er... let's say... the information-challenged wing of his constituents (meaning the vast majority--his intellectual supporters may be more vocal, but they are in much, much smaller numbers).

Is it a one-on-one trade-off? No. That would be like saying, "I don't see what the traveler gained from going that one mile of the journey we are looking at. He sure as hell didn't get to his final destination."

What do you say to someone like that?

This fake scene works by stacking it with other persuasion techniques. The payoff comes from all of them working together until the tipping point gets reached.

Hmmmmm...

Didn't I already go through that?

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

The Higher Circles

The Chief Executives

The Warlords

The Military Ascendancy

The Mass Society

The Higher Immorality

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Book_Excerpts/PowerElite.html

I've read three of these. A series of conclusions and implicit circular reasoning albeit well written verified by what's already in your head assuming Mills isn't also bamboozling you with his erudition. A launching pad, I suspect, for innumerable PhD dissertations.

--Brant

the power of pure deductive reasoning from an arbitrary start point?

did I say he said something that wasn't true?

[KacyRay]

Holy. Jesus Christ. On a bike.

Wow...

First off... hello again!

Now, then...

I cannot believe this thread. This is so far beyond the pale that I'm beginning to wonder if there's anything you won't believe.

Has it occurred to a single one of you to ask for evidence that the fainting was fake? Has that thought ever even crossed your mind? You get one guy who states it as though it was axiomatic, and then everyone else piles on like it was a proven, ostensible fact.

I wonder - do you folks consider yourself skeptics? I hope not, because if you do, anyone who has bought into this "fake" story needs to turn in their skeptic card immediately.

The woman behind Obama did something that is very ordinary. She fell out. And not even completely.

Do you realize that this happens all the time, even to Marines standing in formation?? In is such an ordinary even that when ceremonies are planned in which Marines will be standing in formation for extended periods of time, Corpsmen are positioned in the back of the formations specifically in anticipation of at least one Marine falling out of the formation.

In my graduating class at boot camp, the <b>company honor graduate</b> (that is the #1 graduating recruit out of about 300) FELL OUT of the formation DURING GRADUATION.

Jesus Christ... <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=falling+out+of+formation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a">just google it</a>!

Do you realize how you sound, when you concoct these arbitrary, unsupported conspiracy theories and then banter about it as though it were solidly evidenced fact? I don't think you do. If you did, you probably wouldn't do it.

(Edited for formatting correction)