Altruist or Kind towards a very young Objectivist guest?


Extropy

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Hello

I'm afraid I just recently realized how much I could have profited from this community in the past. Spilled milk, I'll begin contributing soon, and now I'll share a situation I'm experiencing.

As you might have read in my Introduction, I live (still..) in Argentina. Not many Objectivists here, but some, definitely not many "Passionate" Objectivists. I have to admit I used to be one.

Without giving too many details:

I've met a (very) young and bright man on another similar site who expressed interest in migrating to Argentina to make a life and indeed an empire for himmself and escape a vicious cycle in his home country. He had just begun re-reading Ayn Rand's major works and a lot of Peikoff's works too.

To my surprise (and against my advice of chosing some other more promising country) he indeed promptly migrated to Francisco's fatherland, or rather, to the city of Buenos Aires and I got to meet him well. I don't like to use the word infatuated but I can't find a proper euphemism either to describe his current mindset in relation to the philosophy of Ayn Rand as strictly (perhaps narrowly) presented by the the ARI.

I do hope you recognize this sort of behaviour and mindset and that it requires no further explanation. In different degrees, most of "us" have been there at some point. And it is indeed the collective "us" that worries me.

I have heped him settle as best as I could and spend quiet a lot of time with him. He however makes no apparent effort to meet "non Objectivists" as if the Objectivist /non-Objectivist language barrier was more of a problem than the English /Spanish language barrier. He talks in a literal manner and though I'm sure he understands, he only responds to the literal words of a phrase, dissecting them, never (apparently) getting the gist of it. This proves a very real problem when trying to explain the quotidian pedestrian realities of dealing with non Objectivist humans in the city he choses to live in.

He has helped me a lot in some aspects of my life that I had basically ignored or overlooked (I can explain further if necessary) but the point is that he gives me value in return and indeed a lot of hope as he sees a bright future in South America and we share some very particular interests.

So we do trade value for value / up to a point.

Part of the reason I was at a time so intensely attracted to Ayn Rand, is because growing up I could not put limits to Altruism. To this day I can not say NO so easily to friends and family. I rely on "social constructs" such as manners, and on implicit or tacit understandings to communicate to my friends (who understand perfectly) that I am either busy or require my daily time of solitude. I am now learning to say to this new friend: enough for today, see you some other time, good bye now, go, yes I do mean it, I don't want to be rude, but you don't care about rudeness or politeness anyway!

It is not in my nature to talk that way, but I have begun feeling drained.

I want to be kind to him. He is indeed very warm and helpful to me, and I see a future business or intellectual relation possible. And most of all I admire him immensely for his courage and determination.

But how do you differentiate kindness from altruism? Not differentiate as one involves the trading of values and the other the sacrifice of them, but where do you put the limit when both become a continuum rather than a contrasting juxtaposition?

I also notice his almost extreme dogmatism (for instance he would pay for and consume a lot of ARI published material, but refuses to give a complete paragraph of Branden (or Rothbard) a chance for the sake of sheer intellectual curiosity! It borders on idolatry.This would not represent a problem except that he is depriving himself of many experiences and opportunities while leaving me as his only IRL point of reference in a lonely far away new city. The contradiction between his apparent lack of tolerance or desire for solitude and his self avowed individualism honestly disturbs me (but I understand by experience the context of being alone in a new city).

I enjoy the time with him, and new younger friends is precisely what I need; but I have my social limitations, I do require peace and quiet to do my work and enjoy Vivaldi.

The thing I fear the most by writing this is that he'll read it in a year or three (when he discovers the unofficial story of Ayn Rand) and might imagine that I didnt want to be his friend or spend time with him. To the contrary if I wasn't so preoccupied with being friends with him, I would not be dedicating my time writing this call for advice. I also know some of his expectations are simply unrealistic, but I don't want to lower his enthusiasm when it is precisely his enthusiasm that is his biggest asset at this time. But to what point is an inflated sense of self esteem an asset...?

How do you, by personal experience, deal with young, certainty-obsessed, Objectivist acolytes?

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Matt,

If you're feeling drained, that's not a good thing. That indicates that you need more time away from the man you mentioned.

You can tell him if you have some areas of disagreement with him, though that might just start an argument.

Sometimes, you just have to wait for a person to come to his senses. It can take years and might never happen, but the last thing you want is to let him suffocate you with his dogmatism.

Good luck.

Darrell

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But how do you differentiate kindness from altruism? Not differentiate as one involves the trading of values and the other the sacrifice of them, but where do you put the limit when both become a continuum rather than a contrasting juxtaposition?

Hi Matt. Nice to see you on OL. I'd not equate kindness with "trading of values", as I think of kindness as acts not meant to receive any reciprocation. Akin to benevolence, with narrower context.

Also, Rand wrote on altruism:

"Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will, or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible".

(I think the corollary of this would be that it is rational egoism which makes true, no-strings-attached kindness *possible* - not duty, or forced obligation, but the free choice to help a person whom you perceive needs help.)

Therefore, there isn't actually a continuum between them.

"The limit" of kindness [to an individual] is when you stop feeling kind, I suppose. Always one should be honestly and openly establishing clear boundaries. This is best covered by Branden in varied ways, one of which by his "self-assertiveness". Real friendship is of course all value-oriented without the need for kindness.

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Matias,

I know that soccer nationalism.

It's the same in Brazil.

And you do know the intense rivalry between Brazil and Argentina, right? Is it the same there?

In Brazil, it would have been all right to be eliminated so long as Argentina was eliminated first.

:)

All right, all right, that is a little exaggerated, but not too much.

:)

btw - If your friend went to Argentina because he wanted to somehow step into the world of Francisco D'Anconia, tell him, for God's sake, don't blow up any copper mines. I've heard that Argentinean jails are similar to Brazilian ones.

:)

Michael

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Darrel, Thank you, indeed feeling drained is the tipping point, and I have indeed established some limits. I did write to him a few days ago and explained some points. The ones about the language barrier produced by Objectivism he did not understand or read or in his words "liked". He said however that he did understand the point I made about privacy standards in the Western Hemisphere and that it came as a bit of a cultural shock for him. That is a progress.

Tony: Thank you so much for your kind words. I do trade value for value with him, but that's besides the point: Indeed I confused trade with kindness. I also meant to describe what I feel like a continuum towards altruism (as I said, I can not easily establish a limit). Yes I want to help him (specially since he just arrived and I am soon leaving the country for a couple of months), but I now realise that a clear limit that corresponds with true selfish kindness must be imposed, by me, instead of expecting him to understand socials cues.

Michael: Yes Football is the opium of the masses. Tennis instead is more individualistic and an Argentine is among the World Champions. Unlike Football which repeatedly serves the political cause of populism for either the "right" or "left" administration of the time, Juan Martin del Potro the Tennis champion, politely refused to visit or be commended by the tyrannical president that currently rules this naturally rich, underpopulated, mismanaged land.

So while it's not my responsibility, what could be the best way to, in time, not convince him, but show him that the World can be wider if he can salvage the good of Ayn Rand without being limited by her heavy intellectual inheritance?

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