past the tipping point...

[moralist]

A genuine free market requires restrictions on the ability of predator multinationals to create monopolies.

lol - one of the questions.

I answered Strongly Disagree.

Multinationals should be free to create monopolies with no government interference...

...but they also should be free to fail with no government support.

Greg

[moralist]

@moralist

That's actually really close to my scores. Are you a business owner?

Yes I am.

But do you realize that we could offer completely opposite answers to different questions on that test, and yet yield similar numbers?

I highly suspect that is the case.

Greg

[Selene]

A genuine free market requires restrictions on the ability of predator multinationals to create monopolies.

lol - one of the questions.

I answered Strongly Disagree.

Multinationals should be free to create monopolies with no government interference...

...but they also should be free to fail with no government support.

Greg

Same here.

I answered Strongly Disagree or Strongly Agree to every question - I did not select (2) (3) or (4) for any question.

A...

[moralist]

What overall scores did yours average out to be?

Greg

[Selene]

What overall scores did yours average out to be?

Greg

4.12 and -4.97 Right Libertarian

[Jules Troy]

8.88. - -4.51. I must have screwed up I was aiming for the bottom right. Well I don't think "aiming is correct" I just answered as honestly as I could. Some of the questions are pretty wacked.

[Mikee]

Economic L/R: 6.12

Social Lib/Aut: -4.87

Interesting. I used c: & d: occasionally. I over analyze. The Economic L/R should probably be a 10.

[Selene]

8.88. - -4.51. I must have screwed up I was aiming for the bottom right. Well I don't think "aiming is correct" I just answered as honestly as I could. Some of the questions are pretty wacked.

Same here.

As I mentioned, this is a poor copy and bastardized authoritarian paranoid F-scale "test" that resulted from post WW II attempts to discover and define the Fascist personality. See post # 22 supra

All they had to do wais ask Eric Hoffer.

A...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Gary,

First you wrote (my emphasis):

@Michael

Your political compass Economic Left/Right: 6.12 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.36
No, I consider myself a centrist.

Then you wrote (my emphasis):

@Michael

Those are my political compass scores. I don't see how someone with a score of Economic Left/Right: 6.12 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.36 can be considered a "progressive" unless you also consider Milton Friedman a progressive.

I'm having a real hard time understanding this approach to consistency. This is the second time.

Is consistency in writing not a value to you?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm curious.

Michael

[william.scherk]

Here's my output from the same test at the link. I am in between the Dalai Lama and Gandhi.

Adam, what do you know about this test/chart?

[Selene]

Here's my output from the same test at the link. I am in between the Dalai Lama and Gandhi.

Adam, what do you know about this test/chart?

Not enough.

I was close to the center of the purple section.

Can you help me out?

A...

[Gary Fisher]

@Michael

Your political compass Economic Left/Right: 6.12 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.36

No, I consider myself a centrist.

I'm having a real hard time understanding this approach to consistency. This is the second time.

Is consistency in writing not a value to you?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm curious.

Michael

@Michael

That's simply how the test reports your scores.

If you take the test, it says (in big bold letters):

Your Political Compass

Economic Left/Right: So and so blah blah blah

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: So and so blah blah blah

And then it shows a chart showing where you are on the political compass.

[Selene]

@Michael

Your political compass Economic Left/Right: 6.12 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.36

No, I consider myself a centrist.

I'm having a real hard time understanding this approach to consistency. This is the second time.

Is consistency in writing not a value to you?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm curious.

Michael

@Michael

That's simply how the test reports your scores.

That is your answer?!!!!

Do you understand Michael's point that your "choice" of "your" implied that those were Michael's scores.

A...

[Gary Fisher]

@Selene

It's clear that there's been a simple misunderstanding that you're blowing WAY out of proportion.

[Selene]

Gary:

First of all, I do not blow "things" out of proportion.

Frankly, I am not inclined to trust your statements. Not that I perceive that you would consciously lie, or, deceive.

However, you present to me as assuming facts that you do not even choose to verify, or, assume that we all know, i.e., that you were surprised/shocked that many of us had never heard of this "political compass."

No biggie.

A...

[Gary Fisher]

@Selene

It would be a good idea to get into the habit of checking other's claims yourself instead of relying on other people to do it for you. Just saying.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Gary,

I fear my crystal ball frequently goes on the blink. I only have the words in front of me you write to understand your meaning. I don't communicate well by telepathy.

From your reaction, saying this is blown way out of proportion, I take it you are a committed sloppy writer or a lazy one. You expect the reader to understand what is in your brain without taking the time and care to put it in correct words.

This is a philosophy board.

Precision of communication is a value around here... at least to me it is. I take ideas seriously enough to want to communicate them correctly to the best of my efforts.

You, apparently, find that procedure too much of an inconvenience to adopt and dislike it when others point out your inconsistencies and say they don't understand.

That, to me, is a serious barrier to taking you seriously.

Michael

[Darrell Hougen]

So I won't forget them, here are my scores:

Economic Left/Right: 5.38

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.95

I have to say that the results are comical at best. The fact that Obama is considered right-wing on economic issues --- not just right of center but far right of center --- makes absolutely no sense.

The old Nolan Chart (and quiz) has problems, but it is still much better than the "Political Compass."

Darrell

[Darrell Hougen]

As far as the numbers of people on various welfare program go, they would be shocking, but the we've seen it coming for a long time.

Here's the scary part, if "there were 103,087,000 full-time year-round workers in the United States (including 16,606,000 full-time year-round government workers)" in 2012, that means there were only 86,481,000 full-time employees not counting government employees. Government employees don't really produce very much and aren't really supporting the economy. It is private sector employees that produce most of the wealth that everyone consumes.

It would be nice to know how many part-time employees there were and their average percent employment before jumping to conclusions, but it looks like most of the work in this country is done by a fairly small percentage of the population. Dividing 86,481,000 by a population of 309,467,000 in 2012 yields 27.9%.

Darrell

[Selene]

So I won't forget them, here are my scores:

Economic Left/Right: 5.38

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.95

I have to say that the results are comical at best. The fact that Obama is considered right-wing on economic issues --- not just right of center but far right of center --- makes absolutely no sense.

The old Nolan Chart (and quiz) has problems, but it is still much better than the "Political Compass."

Darrell

Darren:

Precisely.

This is part MMPI** in terms of certain aspects of the choices presented, with the major structural difference that it uses multiple choice vs. true/false.

**

The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) is a psychological test that assesses personality traits and psychopathology. It is primarily intended to test people who are suspected of having mental health or other clinical issues. Although it was not originally designed to be administered to non-clinical populations, it has found

The MMPI is currently commonly administered in one of two forms — the MMPI-2, which has 567 true/false questions, and the newer MMPI-2-RF, published in 2008 and containing only 338 true/false items. While the MMPI-2-RF is a newer measure and takes about half the time to complete (usually 30 to 50 minutes), the MMPI-2 is still the more widely used test because of its existing large research base and familiarity with psychologists. (Another version of the test — the MMPI-A — is designed exclusively for teenagers.)

http://psychcentral.com/lib/minnesota-multiphasic-personality-inventory-mmpi/0005959

[Gary Fisher]

So I won't forget them, here are my scores:

Economic Left/Right: 5.38

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.95

I have to say that the results are comical at best. The fact that Obama is considered right-wing on economic issues --- not just right of center but far right of center --- makes absolutely no sense.

The old Nolan Chart (and quiz) has problems, but it is still much better than the "Political Compass."

Darrell

This is from their site:

Most governments and political figures are plotted on the right. Doesn't that mean that your centre is misplaced?

The Political Compass chart represents the whole spectrum of political opinion, not simply the range within a particular nation or region. The timeless universal centre should not be confused with merely the present national average. The former is far more meaningful and informative. Where, for example, would the centre be within the political confines of Hitler's Germany, apartheid South Africa or the Soviet Union? By showing the whole spectrum of political thought, we can indicate the width or narrowness of prevailing mainstream politics within any particular country. It also enables us to chart the drifts one way or another of various parties, governments and individuals.

Twenty-five years ago, social democracy was riding high in western Europe. A chart at that time would have shown a number of EU governments to the left of the centre. In our globalised age, however, the shift has been rightward, which accounts for the altogether different cluster that the contemporary chart depicts. In other words most democracies, either reluctantly or enthusiastically, have embraced neoliberalism (ie a right leaning economy) to a greater or lesser extent.

Curbs on civil liberties, rationalised by issues such as illegal immigration and terrorist threats, accounts for the concurrent drift upwards on the social scale.

Anybody have links to other tests?

[Darrell Hougen]

So I won't forget them, here are my scores:

Economic Left/Right: 5.38

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.95

I have to say that the results are comical at best. The fact that Obama is considered right-wing on economic issues --- not just right of center but far right of center --- makes absolutely no sense.

The old Nolan Chart (and quiz) has problems, but it is still much better than the "Political Compass."

Darrell

This is from their site:

Most governments and political figures are plotted on the right. Doesn't that mean that your centre is misplaced?

The Political Compass chart represents the whole spectrum of political opinion, not simply the range within a particular nation or region. The timeless universal centre should not be confused with merely the present national average. The former is far more meaningful and informative. Where, for example, would the centre be within the political confines of Hitler's Germany, apartheid South Africa or the Soviet Union? By showing the whole spectrum of political thought, we can indicate the width or narrowness of prevailing mainstream politics within any particular country. It also enables us to chart the drifts one way or another of various parties, governments and individuals.

Twenty-five years ago, social democracy was riding high in western Europe. A chart at that time would have shown a number of EU governments to the left of the centre. In our globalised age, however, the shift has been rightward, which accounts for the altogether different cluster that the contemporary chart depicts. In other words most democracies, either reluctantly or enthusiastically, have embraced neoliberalism (ie a right leaning economy) to a greater or lesser extent.

Curbs on civil liberties, rationalised by issues such as illegal immigration and terrorist threats, accounts for the concurrent drift upwards on the social scale.

Anybody have links to other tests?

The authors of the chart have apparently defined the center far to the left of what could reasonably be defined as the center on economic issues. Moreover, it is hard to see how the U.S. has been moving to the right on economic issues. The size of the government as been growing steadily since it was dramatically scaled back after the end of WWII with the exception of the Reagan era. The passage of Obamacare, Obama's signature piece of legislation is enormously damaging to the economic freedom of ordinary Americans. Obama's rhetoric and calls for higher taxes put him clearly on the left. Don't forget the "stimulus". Thousands of pages of new regulations have been written. Ordinary Americans are being harassed for attempting to make use of their legally acquired property and on and on. Obama has been more hostile to property rights and economic freedom than any President in recent memory. The fact that he hasn't been able to pass anti-freedom legislation has everything to do with the TEA Party and nothing to do with Obama's views.

Darrell

[moralist]

(duplicate)

[dldelancey]

I wonder if the number of government employees includes contractors?

[moralist]

So I won't forget them, here are my scores:

Economic Left/Right: 5.38

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.95

I have to say that the results are comical at best. The fact that Obama is considered right-wing on economic issues --- not just right of center but far right of center --- makes absolutely no sense.

The old Nolan Chart (and quiz) has problems, but it is still much better than the "Political Compass."

Darrell

This is from their site:

Most governments and political figures are plotted on the right. Doesn't that mean that your centre is misplaced?

The Political Compass chart represents the whole spectrum of political opinion, not simply the range within a particular nation or region. The timeless universal centre should not be confused with merely the present national average. The former is far more meaningful and informative. Where, for example, would the centre be within the political confines of Hitler's Germany, apartheid South Africa or the Soviet Union? By showing the whole spectrum of political thought, we can indicate the width or narrowness of prevailing mainstream politics within any particular country. It also enables us to chart the drifts one way or another of various parties, governments and individuals.

Twenty-five years ago, social democracy was riding high in western Europe. A chart at that time would have shown a number of EU governments to the left of the centre. In our globalised age, however, the shift has been rightward, which accounts for the altogether different cluster that the contemporary chart depicts. In other words most democracies, either reluctantly or enthusiastically, have embraced neoliberalism (ie a right leaning economy) to a greater or lesser extent.

Curbs on civil liberties, rationalised by issues such as illegal immigration and terrorist threats, accounts for the concurrent drift upwards on the social scale.

Anybody have links to other tests?

The authors of the chart have apparently defined the center far to the left of what could reasonably be defined as the center on economic issues. Moreover, it is hard to see how the U.S. has been moving to the right on economic issues. The size of the government as been growing steadily since it was dramatically scaled back after the end of WWII with the exception of the Reagan era. The passage of Obamacare, Obama's signature piece of legislation is enormously damaging to the economic freedom of ordinary Americans. Obama's rhetoric and calls for higher taxes put him clearly on the left. Don't forget the "stimulus". Thousands of pages of new regulations have been written. Ordinary Americans are being harassed for attempting to make use of their legally acquired property and on and on. Obama has been more hostile to property rights and economic freedom than any President in recent memory. The fact that he hasn't been able to pass anti-freedom legislation has everything to do with the TEA Party and nothing to do with Obama's views.

Darrell

You noticed that, Darrell?

Leftists do not see America moving to the left, because they regard themselves as the objective center so everyone else around them appears to be subjectively wrong.

Greg