Alas Baltimore -

[Selene]

"Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."

[Derek McGowan]

Reporting live from the "warzone"

Okay its not that bad but cars have been burned, stores have been burned, and businesses looted.

My mind is hitting so many different points, reasons and perspectives right now that it is hard to fully commit it either or much less to speak coherently, but here are my observances.

On the police-

So far the police have not really engaged the crowds (today they are lining up for the possibility of repeat) and the Mayor is getting flack in some spaces for the lack of action. They mostly formed walls to prevent rioters from getting pass into certain areas but they weren't doing much arresting until later last evening. Up to 15 officers have been injured including broken bones. The Mayor specifically said that she was going to give those who wish to destroy space to do so. I understand the residents frustration AND I understand the position that she is in. Already there have been posts on FaceBook with pictures of one or two officers throwing rocks but the posts don't mention that the rioters have been and were throwing first. If the Mayor said "okay boys lets take them down" there would be even more rioting as the home bloggers and posters twisted the information.

As far as the officers who were behind Mr. Gray's death. They should have spoke up a week ago, before the funeral. We may not be in this position now. If you go pass the line here and there in your daily apprehension of possible (innocent until proven guilty) criminals and everything has worked out so far- such as you scared them straight or showed that you aren't one to be trifled with- fine, but when it goes wrong and someone dies because of your actions, or even if it wasn't your actions...... you gotta speak up man! Lose the job, do the time, whatever. Somebody died!

On the rioters

The family and the speakers at the funeral not only called for non-violence, they called for NO protests. These riots seem to have been started by youth at the mall and clashes with the police, by the so-called team-up between the city's Bloods, Crips and Black Guerrilla Family who vowed to take out officers together.

They are crazy

The CVS that was shown on the news is no more than a 1/2 mile from my house and the mall, a mile. Our neighborhood shopping center with a grocery store, a mom and pop hardware store, a laundromat, and a Rite-Aid was completely boarded up when I went by this morning and that's one block from where I live. When I went out yesterday to talk to the neighbors about what was happening, we witnessed girls riding down the street attempting to sell hair weave out of the car that they obviously had just stolen. We listened as individuals wondered if any liquor stores had been hit so they could go pass. We even heard one hood rat (female term) say that she wished that "they" should have run up in the rental office of a apartment complex that she got fired from. What does any of that have to do with the funeral?

But on the other hand

I asked my wife if Empress (my 7 year old) knew what was going on. Upon explaining it (turns out she had seen burning cars on the way back from aftercare) she said "so they are just breaking into places and taking stuff" We said yes. She said "well why aren't you guys out there taking stuff too?" This is from a 7 year old who goes to a school 15 minutes away and who has no friends in the neighborhood. The only time she goes out is if we are with her (her mother's rules, not mine ) So why would she have such a attitude? I realized you can't call these rioters animals. You can't say that they have chosen to go down a specific mental path. It would appear more reasonable to say that they never grew up/left the natural path of wanting stuff. We want stuff with minimal effort. And if we won't get caught then why not. Its with proper guidance that you start to see the benefit and reward to hard work and victory over frustration. These rioters are living in conditions that effect their mental path. The environment is almost like a disease, a condition, like depression. What else do you do when all you know is what you DON'T have and naturally you want it. Others have more money, other neighborhoods look better, other people don't have to choose between diapers and food. And as a youth (physically or mentally), they have the added pressure of having to choose between bus fare or going to the club. A healthy lunch or liquor for the night. One can stand by and judge the choices that they make but keep the environment in mind. What is the solution... I don't know.

The destruction-

Even though there have been multiple fires, etc, the city is 80 square miles. Most of the city is not touched at all. I even watched live as a gang went through a residential neighborhood, did nothing to homes, and then attacked a chain store. Life seems to be going on fine for those not directly affected. But on the other hand the fear level is high. Schools as far as 30 miles away were closed rumors have shut down other places. The tourist area, the Inner Harbor, is untouched possibly because of a massive SWAT team presence. I just hope that areas like mine don't turn into food deserts as the one grocery store decides not to reopen.

[Brant Gaede]

A chain store like CVS is not going to post armed guards with orders to defend an outlet. If it burns it burns. If it's insured it's insured. If it's worth rebuilding rebuild. As for the business that's only a single store--well, get burned out and never come back. Probably not worth shooting to kill for. Later on someone may come back and shoot you. You might display arms and hope not to use them.

As for police protecting the integrity of the public weal--? Shoot the thugs in the legs with special rounds, arrest and prosecute. Shooting to kill doesn't seem to have any legal sanction absent martial law and would likely create more problems than are solved. Most of the demonstrations were by peaceful people it seems, with gangs and thugs going off on their destructive own. Overt criminal activity must be legally and thoroughly and objectively dealt with.

--Brant

[Selene]

I am not verifying any of this information, however it can give us some context.

It is Wiki:

Majestic towing scandal

In May, 2012, Police Commissioner Frederick Bealefeld III directed a team that included agents from the FBI that used wiretaps and other techniques to break up a major corruption scandal centered around the Majestic Auto Body shop. The shop paid Baltimore police officers a fee when they called Majestic tow trucks to the scene of an accident. In all, 17 officers plead guilty to charges. At least another 37 officers were involved.[55]
Kendell Richburg

In October 2013, Officer Kendell Richburg was sentenced eight years in prison on a number of charges. He pled guilty of conspiring with a local drug dealer. The officer would protect the dealer from arrest while he in turn provided information on his customers allowing Richburg to easily arrest them.[56]
Christopher Robinson

Also in the same month, Officer Christopher Robinson shot and killed his ex-girlfriend and her new partner before killing himself. [57]
Ashley Roane

In November 2013, Officer Ashley Roane pled guilty to charges related to a scheme to sell Social Security numbers. She admitted to having used official computers to access personal information which she then passed on to others who used the information to defraud the government. She also admitted to protecting persons she thought were transporting large amounts of heroin in the city.[58] In February 2014, she was sentenced to five years in prison.[59]
Arrest for video recording

In March 2014, the city of Baltimore agreed to pay $250,000 to a man who was arrested at the Preakness Stakes in 2010 for recording police officers with his mobile phone. The city admitted no misconduct and said it was unable to identify the officers who arrested Christopher Sharp, but agreed to pay to settle the matter.[60]
Frederick Allen

In April 2014, Officer Frederick Allen pleaded guilty to two counts of a sexual abuse of a minor. The abuse started in 2005 when the girl was fifteen years old and working with the Police Athletic League. Allen was fired from the department. [61]
Freddie Gray
This section documents a current event. Information may change rapidly as the event progresses, and initial news reports may be unreliable. (April 2015)
Main article: Death of Freddie Gray

On April 12, 2015, 25-year-old African American Freddie Gray was taken into custody by the Baltimore Police Department for possession of a switchblade. Whilst being transported, Gray had experienced what was described by officers as a "medical emergency"; within an hour of his arrest, Gray had fallen into a coma and had been taken to a trauma center, where it was determined that he had suffered from a spinal injury. According to his family, Gray's spine was "80% severed" at his neck, he had three fractured vertebrae, and his larynx was injured. The events that led to the injuries are unclear; Officer Garrett Miller claimed that Gray was arrested "without force or incident."

Despite extensive surgery in an attempt to save his life, Gray died on April 19, 2015. Pending an investigation, six Baltimore police officers were temporarily suspended with pay. Police Commissioner Anthony Batts reported that the officers "failed to get [Gray] medical attention in a timely manner multiple times", and did not buckle him in the van while he was being transported to the police station.

The death of Gray resulted in the 2015 Baltimore riots; a major protest event in downtown Baltimore on April 25, 2015 turned violent, resulting in 34 arrests and the injuries of 15 police officers. Following Gray's funeral on April 27, the unrest intensified with the looting and burning of local businesses and a CVS pharmaceutical store, culminating with the deployment of the Maryland National Guard to Baltimore and declaration of a state of emergency by Governor Larry Hogan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Police_Department

Nancy Pelosi's father ran this city.

She learned well.

Corruption has been a staple of the State of Maryland and Baltimore was the mechanism for it.

A clearinghouse of sorts.

A...

[Selene]

I can't quite fathom how I accidentally started the thread without the "Revelation 18:" - I thought it had been lost.

Maybe Michael can do the voodoo that he do so well...

and then there is playing pin the tail on the ...

A...

[Selene]

NY City gets it's chance to "join the struggle" with our Baltimore brothers!

Mayor DeComeo gets an opportunity to show how he handles these "pressing issues" starting tonight at 6 o'clock tonight.

Apparently, there is a continuing demonstration scheduled for 6 PM today also.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/rOSKmP5ghEo/Protest+Solidarity+City+Baltimore+Held+New/vZHTF7goB5e

A...

[Selene]

The picture above in post #6 caught my eye because it is clearly professionally produced and apparently has no "Union bug" on it.

However, I just heard a clip from the Stealth Presidential Candidate Evita's secret address to a Columbia University crowd this morning.

In that clip she came out against mass incarceration in America.

Same tag line on the bottom of that poster.

This was not the meme we used some five (5) decades ago.

The insanity of imprisoning a person for trading a product and having to pay an exorbitant price to imprison them and the exorbitant price to even attempt to repair all the community, family and cultural damage that is done is exponential.

The "War on Poverty" began in 1964.

In 1968, the poverty rate in the US was 14%.

In 1995, 5 trillion had been "invested" by the taxpayers.

Since 1995, an additional $17, 000, 000, 000, 000.00 [seventeen trillion dollars and NO SENSE] has been added for a total of 22 Trillion dollars spent on the "War!"

Poverty rate in 2015 is 14%

We made these arguments as, Randians, and/or, libertarians, in the '60's. Now the numbers prove we were correct.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/20/upshot/missing-black-men.html?abt=0002&abg=1

However, the dirty secret is that black lives matter as numbers to the marxist and as individuals to libertarians.

A...

[Selene]

47 Years and roughly 22 trillion dollars and ...

<<<< Nostalgia? No just the proof that government just does not work.

No progress! No peace! <<<< yep that will work.

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[Derek McGowan]

47 Years and roughly 22 trillion dollars and ...

<<<< Nostalgia? No just the proof that government just does not work.

No progress! No peace! <<<< yep that will work.

A...

Still, it does bring up a important question. In the event that lassiez faire produces and environment where a large portion of the population feel that they are being taking advantage of, are jealous at what others have, or actually are being held down by a wealthy elite, what is the defense against violent uprising?

Its all fine and well to show that the mob is immoral or irrational but where does that get you when the mob is on your front steps?

This isn't a defense of either side but the fact remains that throughout history those who felt they don't have the clout to be heard at the negotiating table, take their negotiations to the streets. Does this mean the solution is to build fences around the lower class to physically protect those who have a majority of wealth/property?

Will we be ok if America resembled sections of Africa with large groups basically substance farming in the countryside? I mean would you feel that it was a victory of capitalism if that was the case whether it was the fault of the poor or not?

[Brant Gaede]

Capitalism is not primary but secondary to the morality and law that enables it. It does not fail. Morality fails and law fails but capitalism does its thing as it is able until it's no longer capitalism but crony capitalism--then fascism incarnate. Need gas to gas the Jews? No problem. Here it is. How much more do you need? Volume discounts. Pay within 30 days, deduct 1% from the invoice. Thank you for your business. Heil Hitler!

--Brant

Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal?--it depends, it depends on what's going on--it could be but too bad we don't have it, yet

[Derek McGowan]

Capitalism is not primary but secondary to the morality and law that enables it. It does not fail. Morality fails and law fails but capitalism does its thing as it is able until it's no longer capitalism but crony capitalism--then fascism incarnate. Need gas to gas the Jews? No problem. Here it is. How much more do you need? Volume discounts. Pay within 30 days, deduct 1% from the invoice. Thank you for your business. Heil Hitler!

--Brant

Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal?--it depends, it depends on what's going on--it could be but too bad we don't have it, yet

not at all disagreeing with you Brant, only pointing out that people get violent when they feel wronged and what is the solution for a knife at your throat when you have been a honest business man. Didn't Rome build the circuses to keep the people happy?

[Selene]

This isn't a defense of either side but the fact remains that throughout history those who felt they don't have the clout to be heard at the negotiating table, take their negotiations to the streets. Does this mean the solution is to build fences around the lower class to physically protect those who have a majority of wealth/property?

Will we be ok if America resembled sections of Africa with large groups basically substance farming in the countryside? I mean would you feel that it was a victory of capitalism if that was the case whether it was the fault of the poor or not?

Derek:

This is the NY City mayor that I served under in his second term.

He put his personal capital on the line and used good sense to reduce the damage in NY City which no other major city did after MLK was assassinated.

Lindsay did have a feel for race relations, a critical issue in 1965 — as it was for de Blasio in 2013, when he made a campaign promise to curtail the use of stop-and-frisk by the police.

In 1966, one of Mayor Lindsay's first acts was to push for a review board to monitor police conduct. Victor Kovner remembered that many African-American and Puerto Rican New Yorkers supported a review board, while many whites, in a time of rising crime, did not. "There were bitter disputes on the streets and the review board was defeated," Victor said.

But Lindsay's effort earned him goodwill in New York's minority communities. That made a difference in 1968, when the assassinations starting coming: first, Martin Luther King, Jr., in April and then, in June, presidential candidate Robert Kennedy.

After the RFK assassination, riots broke out in many large cities, including Baltimore, Kansas City and Washington, DC. But New York City avoided a major riot. Sarah Kovner said Lindsay had a hand in that. "He went right uptown, right to Harlem, and walked the streets just with a couple of his his aides, not flanked with police, to keep the city quiet," she said. "And he was given a lot of credit for doing that. Because they didn't do that in a lot of cities and a lot of cities burned."

He was a good man, liberal and charismatic.

However, a complete failure as a City administrator.

http://www.wnyc.org/story/embattled-mayoralty-john-lindsay-lessons-de-blasio/

A...

[Brant Gaede]

Capitalism is not primary but secondary to the morality and law that enables it. It does not fail. Morality fails and law fails but capitalism does its thing as it is able until it's no longer capitalism but crony capitalism--then fascism incarnate. Need gas to gas the Jews? No problem. Here it is. How much more do you need? Volume discounts. Pay within 30 days, deduct 1% from the invoice. Thank you for your business. Heil Hitler!

--Brant

Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal?--it depends, it depends on what's going on--it could be but too bad we don't have it, yet

not at all disagreeing with you Brant, only pointing out that people get violent when they feel wronged and what is the solution for a knife at your throat when you have been a honest business man. Didn't Rome build the circuses to keep the people happy?

If we just take the African-American community, they've been wronged to the core. In modern times it started with the Great Society, the assassination of MLK in 1968 and then clobbered by the war on drugs. Plus special treatment by the police. But no excuse for rioting and arson and looting.

--Brant

[Selene]

Here is an oldie and a goodie - good ole Mayor Daley of Chicago stated clearly:

Mayor Richard J. Daley later told reporters that he had ordered police "to shoot to kill any arsonist or anyone with a Molotov cocktail in his hand . . . and . . . to shoot to maim or cripple anyone looting any stores in our city." In the first two days of rioting, police reported numerous civilian deaths but were unable to determine whether they were caused by the riots or other crimes. No official death toll was given for the tragedy, although published accounts say nine to 11 people died during the rioting. Three hundred fifty people were arrested for looting, and 162 buildings were destroyed by arson. Bulldozers moved in to clean up after the rioters, leaving behind vacant lots that remained empty three decades later.

Ah, just brings back such nostalgic memories when Mayors were men...

In the first two days of rioting, police reported numerous civilian deaths but were unable to determine whether they were caused by the riots or other crimes. No official death toll was given for the tragedy, although published accounts say nine to 11 people died during the rioting. Three hundred fifty people were arrested for looting, and 162 buildings were destroyed by arson. Bulldozers moved in to clean up after the rioters, leaving behind vacant lots that remained empty three decades later.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/chi-chicagodays-kingriots-story-story.html

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[Selene]

The Attorney General of Maryland has just announced that Mr. Grays arrest was illegal.

Additionally, his being shackled, cuffed and unrestrained by seat belts in the Police van directly led to Mr. Gray's death and therefore the six (6) police officers will be charged with homicide.

She described repeated mistreatment of Mr. Gray. She said that time and again police mistreated Mr. Gray, arresting him with no grounds, violating police procedure by putting him in cuffs and leg cuffs in the van without seat belting him and then repeatedly failing to get him medical attention.She said that when he was removed from the wagon, “Mr. Gray was no longer breathing at all.”

Here is the key, the police, she explained, had no probable cause to arrest Mr. Gray and therefore, his arrest was illegal.

Fruit of the poison tree principle will fry these police officers. One of them had better roll on the rest to save his ass.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?emc=edit_na_20150501&nlid=53564225&_r=0

A...

[Brant Gaede]

I don't think they'll need a rat.

--Brant

the Grand Jury should be next; it looks like manslaughter with conviction on the lowest possible criminal felony charge (negligent homicide?)

[Selene]

I don't think they'll need a rat.

--Brant

the Grand Jury should be next; it looks like manslaughter with conviction on the lowest possible criminal felony charge (negligent homicide?)

The big money maker is the false arrest which fits the narrative of the "stop and frisk" and harassment of neighborhood African Americans/persons of color/moniker of the month citizens.

The extra scrutiny of blacks is quite accurate and that has to be addressed by both sides.

Additionally, it is again time to try capitalism and repeal all alleged "moral crimes."

Repeal all:

drug laws

adult prostitution laws

gambling laws

etc.

Citizens should insist on an end to the "war on drugs" with a clear cut surrender...we can find a battleship to sign the surrender on somewhere.

A...

[Selene]

I fully understand this man celebrating and I respect it.

Developing: Six police officers face charges ranging from second-degree murder to false imprisonment in the death of Freddie Gray, the Baltimore man who died after suffering a spinal injury while in police custody.

State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby of Baltimore announced the charges at a news conference on Friday, the Baltimore Sun reports. Mosby said police did not have probable cause to arrest Gray, and the knife found in his pocket was not an illegal switchblade. Gray is believed to have died from a “severe and critical neck injury” sustained while riding in the police van without seat belts, Mosby said.

The officer who drove the van, Caesar Goodson Jr., has been charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and two counts of vehicular manslaughter, according to the Sun. Officer William Porter, Lt. Brian Rice and Sgt. Alicia White were charged with involuntary manslaughter. Officer Edward Nero and Officer Garrett Miller were charged with second-degree assault and misconduct in office, as were the other four officers. Miller is also charged with false imprisonment.

Mosby cited findings that the officers left Gray face-down in the police van, with his wrists and ankles bound. He was not secured in the van. Officers interacted with Gray at least five times while he was in the van and despite Gray’s repeated requests for medical help, none was provided, Mosby said. When the van reached the police station, Gray was in cardiac arrest and was not breathing, Mosby said.

The medical examiner had ruled Gray’s death was a homicide, Mosby said in the press conference.

After Mosby’s announcement, drivers in West Baltimore honked their horns while others yelled “justice.”

Other publications with coverage include the Washington Post and the New York Times.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/baltimore_prosecutor_says_there_is_probable_cause_for_homicide_charges_in_d/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_email

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[BaalChatzaf]

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/baltimore_prosecutor_says_there_is_probable_cause_for_homicide_charges_in_d/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_email

A...

Finally. Some justice. Hoodathunkit?

[Selene]

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/baltimore_prosecutor_says_there_is_probable_cause_for_homicide_charges_in_d/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_email

A...

Finally. Some justice. Hoodathunkit?

It is a start.

Here is something that I had heard about last week and finally I have some confirmation.

I had heard that Mr. Gray was getting an annuity from one of the companies that buy out a settlement with an upfront payment.

Freddie Gray, the 25-year-old Baltimore man who died from a spinal injury after being arrested by police, had health problems as a child due to lead-paint exposure, according to a 2008 lawsuit.

The suit alleged that Gray and his two sisters had high levels of lead in their blood, obtained from flaking lead paint in their rental home between 1992 and 1996, report the Washington Post and the Baltimore Sun.

The defense had pointed to other possible causes for problems that included attention deficit disorders and problems in school. The children’s mother, the defense said, had used heroin and had moved frequently. The suit settled in 2010; the terms were confidential.

Maryland law sets the threshold for lead poisoning at 10 micrograms per deciliter. Six tests conducted between 1992 and 1996 detected lead levels in Freddie Gray’s blood between 11 and 19 micrograms per deciliter, according to the Baltimore Sun. The Washington Post says the levels were even higher in previous tests, ranging from nearly 30 micrograms in 1990 and 37 micrograms in 1991.

An expert interviewed by the Post said those high levels would have caused irreparable damage, affecting Gray’s ability to think, process information and self-regulate.

Gray was in special education classes and never graduated from high school. He served two years in prison after drug-related convictions.

Updated a 3:54 p.m. to fix a typo in the phrase “attention deficit disorders.”

I wonder what wonderful drugs your friendly government school gave him as part of his I.E.P. [individual Education Plan]?

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/suit_claimed_freddie_gray_suffered_from_lead_paint_exposure_as_a_child/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_email

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[Selene]

[Derek McGowan]

That's funny

[Mikee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAPKqjFeXxA

[Derek McGowan]

Stefan Molyneux's take

[Brant Gaede]

Baltimore is just another city run and controlled by Democrats and that's the relevant "truth" about Mr. Gray--that is, the Democrats aren't being blamed. Where were the Republicans in all this and in the past years leading up to this thuggery? They had nothing to do with the incompetent politics of Baltimore nor its shitty police force. In turn this raises the question of where's the racism? The police dept. is almost 50% black. Should it be 60% or 70% or 80%? Would 90% black take care of the racism charges?

--Brant

the video is too long and too slow and the guy talking is even slower, so I stopped watching the words drip out like water from a bad faucet