on strike...


moralist

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In Post #7 you wrote, "The American Constitutional form of government was designed only to work for decent people... it [does] not work for the indecent."

Therefore, if we now, as you say, have a "liberal socialist government...

Wrong again, Frank.

I never said we.

You are experiencing the liberal socialist government you deserve... not me.

This is because we each live by completely different sets of moral values.

Greg

If we say they're different isn't to say one or the other is immoral just not the best choice for Greg according to Greg.

Only the real life experience of getting exactly what we deserve as the results of our actions has the power to convince us of the morality of our choices. :smile:

Greg

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I think it's not so much that Greg isn't cognizant of Big Government, it's that he refuses to allow it cognizance. That's the start of shrinking government, when enough 'moralists' won't pay it any attention - because they can't see it and don't need it. Statists and bureaucrats are accustomed to being opposed, they thrive on it; being ignored/not needed is their nightmare.

Wow, Tony. You positively nailed it. :laugh:

Bureaucrats are parasites who live off of the energy of our attention. So simply deprive them of their food.

Want a smaller government? Shrink it in your own life.

Instead of fighting against the government as if it was the enemy... just don't need it... and it leaves you alone to enjoy your life. :smile:

Greg

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In Post #7 you wrote, "The American Constitutional form of government was designed only to work for decent people... it [does] not work for the indecent."

Therefore, if we now, as you say, have a "liberal socialist government...

Wrong again, Frank.

I never said we.

You are experiencing the liberal socialist government you deserve... not me.

This is because we each live by completely different sets of moral values.

Greg

If we say they're different isn't to say one or the other is immoral just not the best choice for Greg according to Greg.

Only the real life experience of getting exactly what we deserve as the results of our actions has the power to convince us of the morality of our choices. :smile:

Greg

Here we have Tarzan of the Apes swinging through the jungle until--SPLAT!--he hits a tree.

--Brant

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In Post #7 you wrote, "The American Constitutional form of government was designed only to work for decent people... it [does] not work for the indecent."

Therefore, if we now, as you say, have a "liberal socialist government...

Wrong again, Frank.

I never said we.

You are experiencing the liberal socialist government you deserve... not me.

This is because we each live by completely different sets of moral values.

Greg

If we say they're different isn't to say one or the other is immoral just not the best choice for Greg according to Greg.

Only the real life experience of getting exactly what we deserve as the results of our actions has the power to convince us of the morality of our choices. :smile:

Greg

Here we have Tarzan of the Apes swinging through the jungle until--SPLAT!--he hits a tree.

--Brant

There's a better way than hitting trees, and that's to be aware of your Conscience.which preemptively indicates the right and wrong vines to swing on.

Sometimes all it takes is a gentle warning tap on the shoulder, while other times it's a two by four over the head. That choice is totally up to us to learn the easy way or the hard way.

Greg

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Bureaucrats are parasites

Greg

Parasites are very successful life forms.

Their success is totally dependent upon the stupid hosts who grant parasites the sanction to feed off of them.

It's completely self-inflicted and totally deserved.

Greg

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Bureaucrats are parasites

Greg

Parasites are very successful life forms.

Their success is totally dependent upon the stupid hosts who grant parasites the sanction to feed off of them.

It's completely self-inflicted and totally deserved.

Greg

We seem to have an excess of stupidity then. But are the parasites stupid?

--Brant

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If you are not experiencing the liberal socialist government, if you have no evidence of it through your own senses, how do you know it exists?

There is an objective principle which is beyond your understanding. It's outside of your mindset. Which is the reason why you are so poorly equipped to deal with the present with a mind so stuck up in the dead past.

This is the objective principle in one simple sentence... ok, Frank, here it comes: :wink:

"The government treats EACH individual DIFFERENTLY."

In every response you've made, this principle doesn't even register in your mind. You think the government treats you exactly the same as it treats me.This of course is a lie. The government treats me completely different than it treats you... because we each live by completely different values.

Greg

In Post #46 your wrote, "You are experiencing the liberal socialist government you deserve... not me."

It could not be clearer. The readers know that you do not have to deal with this form of government. So the next question is obvious: what is the source of your knowledge about this government? You say, "The government treats EACH individual DIFFERENTLY." But, without experience, how would you be able to make a claim about government's differential treatment?

You are not experiencing liberal socialism--so you say. Therefore how can you be certain of anything about that form of government?

Furthermore, you have said that Obama and the Democrats do not govern America; Americans govern themselves. If that is true, then there is no liberal socialist government here for you, me or anyone to gain experience from.

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Bureaucrats are parasites

Greg

Parasites are very successful life forms.

Their success is totally dependent upon the stupid hosts who grant parasites the sanction to feed off of them.

It's completely self-inflicted and totally deserved.

Greg

But are the parasites stupid?

Not nearly as stupid as the hosts who grant their sanction to be fed upon. Parasites are just opportunistic. If given the opportunity, they'll take it.

Greg

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No they are not stupid, they have had over 2000 years to perfect leechcraft 101

Just in America alone it has been honed into a fine art. The size of government alone is ample proof of that. Government can only grow in response to peoples' need of it.

Greg

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No they are not stupid, they have had over 2000 years to perfect leechcraft 101

Just in America alone it has been honed into a fine art. The size of government alone is ample proof of that. Government can only grow in response to peoples' need of it.

Greg

Including the needs of the Federal employees and entrenched bureaucrats and national legislators.

--Brant

a virtuous circle--a daisy chain

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If you are not experiencing the liberal socialist government, if you have no evidence of it through your own senses, how do you know it exists?

There is an objective principle which is beyond your understanding. It's outside of your mindset. Which is the reason why you are so poorly equipped to deal with the present with a mind so stuck up in the dead past.

This is the objective principle in one simple sentence... ok, Frank, here it comes: :wink:

"The government treats EACH individual DIFFERENTLY."

In every response you've made, this principle doesn't even register in your mind. You think the government treats you exactly the same as it treats me.This of course is a lie. The government treats me completely different than it treats you... because we each live by completely different values.

Greg

In Post #46 your wrote, "You are experiencing the liberal socialist government you deserve... not me."

It could not be clearer. The readers know that you do not have to deal with this form of government. So the next question is obvious: what is the source of your knowledge about this government?

I understand how the government treats people like you simply by observing your own complaints about it in your own words. You make an excellent object lesson of what not to do in life.

Greg

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No they are not stupid, they have had over 2000 years to perfect leechcraft 101

Just in America alone it has been honed into a fine art. The size of government alone is ample proof of that. Government can only grow in response to peoples' need of it.

Greg

Including the needs of the Federal employees and entrenched bureaucrats and national legislators.

--Brant

a virtuous circle

Yes... except it's fake virtue. :wink:

The looters exist only to service the demands of the moochers... for that is from where their political power comes...

...dependence.

They is why they take great pains to foster and nurture and enable need of the government.

The government can only hold power over you through your own need of it.

Give up need... and you are free to govern yourself. :smile:

Greg

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I understand how the government treats people like you simply by observing your own complaints about it in your own words. You make an excellent object lesson of what not to do in life.

Greg

I have complained about the way Obama governs me and other Americans. But you have insisted "Obama and the Democrats . . . don't govern Americans because Americans govern themselves." (Post #42)

So in your view I must be a liar. Why would you base a judgment of government on the words of a liar--unless you really don't care about the truth?

If I make a good object lesson of what not to do, when can we expect you to stop criticizing socialists and Marxists?

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ENOUGH!

Both of your positions are clear.

You are in a common echo chamber.

A...

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Francisco, Greg's point is that even though you and he are subject to State and Federal Taxes, State and Federal laws, regulation of your professions, state and local fire, electric and building codes -- even though you each need a piece of government issued plastic to legally drive your vehicles ... because you 'criticize'** the machinery of government, you are a lesser being than him. (he just meekly goes with the flow and quietly pays his taxes, except for the times he joins his Tea Party colleagues in some political activism). Your activism is suspect, whereas his activism is righteous. You can't argue any reasonable point with him because he has long since assigned you to the 'indecent.'

I think Greg is ignorant and bigoted enough to believe he knows you. He has assessed your heart, your motives and your politics -- your very worth as a citizen, as an American, as a man in the world. He is greater, you are lesser. He willfully distorts insignificant moral differences between you so that he can appear the greater man. The arrogance and the disdain go hand in hand -- it's driven by psychological "Otherizing." You are not going to ever be included in his categories of moral people. That case is closed and sealed. He doesn't say your arguments are flawed, but that you yourself are flawed, immoral.

So, actually, Greg is not arguing with you. He is just blackening an imagined enemy. Which is fairly sad and ridiculous considering you probably share bedrock faiths in human ingenuity, human aspirations, human capabilities and human greatness. You vocally criticize Leviathan, while Greg passively accepts its hunger.

The deeper oddity is that Greg styles himself a Christophile, a lover of Christliness.

_____

** -- Greg equates your 'criticism' of government and its depredations with 'complaining.'

Edited by william.scherk
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I understand how the government treats people like you simply by observing your own complaints about it in your own words. You make an excellent object lesson of what not to do in life.

Greg

I have complained about the way Obama governs me and other Americans.

Obama doesn't govern Americans.

Americans govern themselves.

The government can only oppress people who give it their sanction to be oppressed, by their own need.

Greg

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Francisco, Greg's point is that even though you and he are subject to State and Federal Taxes, State and Federal laws, regulation of your professions, state and local fire, electric and building codes -- even though you each need a piece of government issued plastic to legally drive your vehicles

William, you ought to be honest enough to speak for yourself instead of lying about what others said.

None of the things you listed impinge on the operation of my business or the quality of my life.

Greg

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I would probably do business with Greg before I did business with FF. Why? He is a straight shooter and doesn't use weasel words or evasions ever. He is a known quantity. You never have to guess to what he means. The way he presents himself I am (hazarding a guess here) that a handshake actually MEANS something. A rare quality in this day and age..

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Greg is an American and a straight-shooter. When he says he does not allow himself to governed by Obama and the "liberal socialists" as we non-Americans do--he means it.

For example, when I travel I use a passport issued by the United States Department of State, John Kerry (Obama appointee), Secretary.

Real Americans, on the other hand, do not need travel documents from liberal socialists. They govern themselves.

Next time you're in an airport, watch how a self-governing, non-sanctioning American handles himself around a TSA agent. (And get ready for a flight delay.)

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It sometimes seems a pretty big gap between the Is and the Ought, the practical and the principled, and our two protagonists are trying to bridge it by entrenching on opposite banks. They're both after the same thing in the end really. I have sympathy and agreement with both: A. To see something clearly for what it is so you know how to intellectually resist it with the good ideas - B., simply ignore the problem and it will go away (as a whole, or at least in your own life). How much to focus on the first without making a martyr of oneself to the Cause, and allowing in anger and bitterness, is something I deal with daily in this country (-you won't believe...) If it's a fine distinction, I have to remind myself constantly that standing FOR an idea is altogether more satisfying and effective than being over-focused AGAINST the viciously bad ideas.

I think Greg has sensed that gazing into the abyss too long can only be dangerous, so has removed himself to his own morality and "sphere of influence". There is a lot going for this. A rational morality is after all self-interested and self-reliant - and enough citizens who go this way, and by leading by example to others, will, in reality, puncture the balloon of Statism. I've also found that inaction is the more effective action--at times. So what's it to be? Both, I reckon. Resist, implicitly with superior principles, spoken openly and forthrightly to others around one - and equally - ignore the State as though it didn't exist or have the least effect on one's life--excepting where it does.. The 'theoretical' and the 'practical', have to be aligned, eventually.

I won't claim it's easy. ;)

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