Zappa


Michael Stuart Kelly

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Bill, I just want examples of what people think is Zappa's best. Plain and simple. I have given my opinion of some of his works so that people will see how I respond, and then get several responses from people as if I am judging, setting up categories, almost like I'm...condemning. It made me think of some dogs I have tried to pet, which, instead of responding without defensiveness, acted almost as if they were afraid I might hit them, as if they had been mistreated by others. I want to assure people I am not growling at anybody. I certainly wasn't calling anybody a dog.

I do thank you for the examples you gave. I looked them all up, listened to them, and gave my honest response without name calling. And would still welcome more if you or others have any.

Ken, that's why I picked what I think are the Beatles' best from a broad spectrum. Norwegian Wood is the first song that really set them apart. Hey Jude is a sentimental stadium pleaser. I am the Walrus is avant garde, While My guitar gently Weeps a great classic rock tune, etc. So, if someone is going to like the beatles in any form, one of those songs is going to cover him in some style he likes.

At this point, from what I can tell, the songs I like best by other groups that in some way resmble Zappa are:

Pictures of Matchstick Men

The Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys

The Doors-The Soft Parade

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A Zappa interview where he talks about love toonies:

JON WINOKUR - How do you feel about pop romantic songs, ballads, love lyrics?

FRANK ZAPPA - I think love lyrics have contributed to the general aura of bad mental health in America. Love lyrics create expectations which can never be met in real life, and so the kid who hears these tunes doesn't realize that that kind of love doesn't exist. If he goes out looking for it, he's going to be a kind of love loser all his life. Where do you get your instructions about love? Your mother and father don't say, "Now, son, now daughter, here's how love works." *They* don't know, so how can they tell their kids? So all your love data comes to you through the lyrics on Top Forty radio, or, in some instances, in movies or novels. The

singer-songwriters who write these lyrics earn their living by pretending to reveal their innermost personal turmoil over the way love has hurt them, which creates a false standard that people use as a guideline on how to behave in interpersonal relationships. "Does my heart feel as broken as that guy's heart?" "Am I loving well?" "Is my dick long enough?"

JON WINOKUR - One of the things that I appreciate about your music is its precision. Are you a taskmaster?

FRANK ZAPPA - Well, I'm not murder on them, but I don't let them mess around. Just because it's a rock 'n' roll band is no reason you shouldn't have the same discipline and precision that you ask for in an orchestra- after all, you're handing a guy a paycheck. You try to hire people who can actually play, but even people who can play get lazy. Musicians are unbelievably lazy. And the discipline that you have to create in order to get them to show up on time, to get from place to place in a group- it's a little bit like running an army. Working with live musicians tends to take some of the fun out of life, I won't make any bones about it. You may like the results when you finally listen to it, but it's just like making sausage: not a pretty process.

http://home.online.no/~corneliu/curmudge.htm

Edited by Rich Engle
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Ted,

Here are some pieces by Frank Zappa that I admire.

I know his early work (through the mid-1970s) better than his later stuff, and my list is biased accordingly.

From the first Mothers of Invention album, Freak Out: "Trouble Coming Every Day," "Wowie Zowie"

From the 2nd album, Absolutely Free: "Son of Suzy Creamcheese," "Brown Shoes Don't Make It"

From the 3rd album, We're Only In it for the Money: "Who Needs the Peace Corps?", "The Idiot Bastard Son"

The 5th Mothers of Invention album, "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets" is a surprisingly affectionate doowop tribute (Zappa may have thought that "greasy love songs" set a bad psychological example, but he was a major collector of doowop and rhythm 'n' blues records)

The 6th Mothers album, Uncle Meat: "Zolar Czakl," "Dog Breath," "Uncle Meat," "The Uncle Meat Variations," "Mr. Green Genes," "Cruising for Burgers," "King Kong."

First solo album, Hot Rats. The whole thing is a masterpiece. I'm listening to it on now on a 39 year old LP and it still sounds fresh. All instrumentals, except for a guest appearance by Captain Beefheart doing his neo-Howlin-Wolf thing. "Peaches en Regalia" has gotten some attention here already (but do yourself a favor and hear it in undistorted sound). "The Little Umbrellas" may be even better.

I think Zappa hit one of his peaks in 1968-1969, when he made Uncle Meat and Hot Rats. But then I'm a jazz guy, and this was one of the more jazz-oriented units that he led, anchored by Ian Underwood on saxes, flutes, clarinets, and keyboards.

7th or 8th Mothers album, Weasels Ripped My Flesh: "Oh No," "Orange County Lumber Truck"

From the mid-1970s, Bongo Fury: "Poofter's Froth, Wyoming, Plans Ahead"

Robert Campbell

PS. King Kong: Jean Luc Ponty Plays the Music of Frank Zappa comes from the same era as Hot Rats: it's an undersung collaboration between Zappa and a jazz violinist of some repute.

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Ted,

Here are some pieces by Frank Zappa that I admire.

I know his early work (through the mid-1970s) better than his later stuff, and my list is biased accordingly.

From the first Mothers of Invention album, Freak Out: "Trouble Coming Every Day," "Wowie Zowie"

From the 2nd album, Absolutely Free: "Son of Suzy Creamcheese," "Brown Shoes Don't Make It"

From the 3rd album, We're Only In it for the Money: "Who Needs the Peace Corps?", "The Idiot Bastard Son"

The 5th Mothers of Invention album, "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets" is a surprisingly affectionate doowop tribute (Zappa may have thought that "greasy love songs" set a bad psychological example, but he was a major collector of doowop and rhythm 'n' blues records)

The 6th Mothers album, Uncle Meat: "Zolar Czakl," "Dog Breath," "Uncle Meat," "The Uncle Meat Variations," "Mr. Green Genes," "Cruising for Burgers," "King Kong."

First solo album, Hot Rats. The whole thing is a masterpiece. I'm listening to it on now on a 39 year old LP and it still sounds fresh. All instrumentals, except for a guest appearance by Captain Beefheart doing his neo-Howlin-Wolf thing. "Peaches en Regalia" has gotten some attention here already (but do yourself a favor and hear it in undistorted sound). "The Little Umbrellas" may be even better.

I think Zappa hit one of his peaks in 1968-1969, when he made Uncle Meat and Hot Rats. But then I'm a jazz guy, and this was one of the more jazz-oriented units that he led, anchored by Ian Underwood on saxes, flutes, clarinets, and keyboards.

7th or 8th Mothers album, Weasels Ripped My Flesh: "Oh No," "Orange County Lumber Truck"

From the mid-1970s, Bongo Fury: "Poofter's Froth, Wyoming, Plans Ahead"

Robert Campbell

PS. King Kong: Jean Luc Ponty Plays the Music of Frank Zappa comes from the same era as Hot Rats: it's an undersung collaboration between Zappa and a jazz violinist of some repute.

Thanks, Robert. I appreciate it. It'll take me a bit to listen to it all.

Wowie Zowie made me laugh, lighthearted silly music and satyrical lyrics "shave your legs" rhymed with "dad's a heeb." Reminds me of John Waters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rQprjqn5bE

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FZ as social critic:

"Magdalena" (from the 1972 album "Just Another Band From L.A.") -- this is Frank and the second iteration of The Mothers of Invention, featuring Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan of The Turtles as "Flo (The Phlorescent Leech) and Eddie" on vocals. In 1972, almost no one had the nerve to even approach the subject of child sexual abuse, and Frank blasted it in 6:24 recorded live at Pauley Pavillion. This is an amazing recording demonstrating the ability and discipline of his band.

"Son Of Orange County -- from "Roxy & Elsewhere" (1974):

"And in your dreams

You can see yourself

As a prophet

Saving the world

The words from your lips

'I am not a crook'

I just can't believe you are

Such a fool..."

He puts Richard Nixon in his place with one sharp back-hand.

"Pygmy Twylyte" ("Roxy") -- spotlights the horrors of the drug culture.

Nearly all of "Broadway The Hard Way" (1988) -- burns down everyone from Jesse Jackson to Jim and Tammy Bakker, Ronald Reagan, and Michael Jackson.

Those are just off the top of my head. If all you're looking for is a pretty tune, then you might better look elsewhere. Frank's disclaimers of "just entertainment" notwithstanding, he was the H.L. Mencken of rock music: he had serious things to say, to anyone who knew how to listen, and for a lot of the pretense that rock music in his era made toward "social conscience", etc., nobody -- ever -- was in Frank's class.

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FZ as social critic:

"Magdalena" (from the 1972 album "Just Another Band From L.A.") -- this is Frank and the second iteration of The Mothers of Invention, featuring Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan of The Turtles as "Flo (The Phlorescent Leech) and Eddie" on vocals. In 1972, almost no one had the nerve to even approach the subject of child sexual abuse, and Frank blasted it in 6:24 recorded live at Pauley Pavillion. This is an amazing recording demonstrating the ability and discipline of his band.

"Son Of Orange County -- from "Roxy & Elsewhere" (1974):

"And in your dreams

You can see yourself

As a prophet

Saving the world

The words from your lips

'I am not a crook'

I just can't believe you are

Such a fool..."

He puts Richard Nixon in his place with one sharp back-hand.

"Pygmy Twylyte" ("Roxy") -- spotlights the horrors of the drug culture.

Nearly all of "Broadway The Hard Way" (1988) -- burns down everyone from Jesse Jackson to Jim and Tammy Bakker, Ronald Reagan, and Michael Jackson.

Those are just off the top of my head. If all you're looking for is a pretty tune, then you might better look elsewhere. Frank's disclaimers of "just entertainment" notwithstanding, he was the H.L. Mencken of rock music: he had serious things to say, to anyone who knew how to listen, and for a lot of the pretense that rock music in his era made toward "social conscience", etc., nobody -- ever -- was in Frank's class.

I'm just about as ignorant and unfamiliar with Zappa's music as you can imagine. But after L. Perigo's decision to make himself the arbiter of Objectivist (objective is Objectivist--no?) music while supposedly kicking FZ's ass around SOLOP, I'm not going to be ignorant long; too many peoiple like him for me not to find out what's going on. So thanks for all the suggestions one and all.

--Brant

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FZ as social critic:

"Magdalena" (from the 1972 album "Just Another Band From L.A.") -- this is Frank and the second iteration of The Mothers of Invention, featuring Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan of The Turtles as "Flo (The Phlorescent Leech) and Eddie" on vocals. In 1972, almost no one had the nerve to even approach the subject of child sexual abuse, and Frank blasted it in 6:24 recorded live at Pauley Pavillion. This is an amazing recording demonstrating the ability and discipline of his band.

"Son Of Orange County -- from "Roxy & Elsewhere" (1974):

"And in your dreams

You can see yourself

As a prophet

Saving the world

The words from your lips

'I am not a crook'

I just can't believe you are

Such a fool..."

He puts Richard Nixon in his place with one sharp back-hand.

"Pygmy Twylyte" ("Roxy") -- spotlights the horrors of the drug culture.

Nearly all of "Broadway The Hard Way" (1988) -- burns down everyone from Jesse Jackson to Jim and Tammy Bakker, Ronald Reagan, and Michael Jackson.

Those are just off the top of my head. If all you're looking for is a pretty tune, then you might better look elsewhere. Frank's disclaimers of "just entertainment" notwithstanding, he was the H.L. Mencken of rock music: he had serious things to say, to anyone who knew how to listen, and for a lot of the pretense that rock music in his era made toward "social conscience", etc., nobody -- ever -- was in Frank's class.

Well put. I'm glad you are posting on OL.

Bill P

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I'm glad you are posting on OL.

Well, thank you for saying so, Bill, but you'll probably get over that soon enough once we ever get into politics.

I maintain that there is a fatal disjunct between Ayn Rand's ethics and her politics, and I am a rational anarchist.

This government must be destroyed.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it, just like I have for over thirty years.

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I'm glad you are posting on OL.

Well, thank you for saying so, Bill, but you'll probably get over that soon enough once we ever get into politics.

I maintain that there is a fatal disjunct between Ayn Rand's ethics and her politics, and I am a rational anarchist.

This government must be destroyed.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it, just like I have for over thirty years.

The government is off to a good start for that. Watch it eat itself alive.

I dunno about "rational anarchist," but as long as you're rational I don't care about the other word.

You might like Wolf DeVoon.

--Brant

Edited by Brant Gaede
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The government is off to a good start for that. Watch it eat itself alive.

Hey: it's ghaslty, what governments can live on, including themselves.

I dunno about "rational anarchist," but as long as you're rational I don't care about the other word.

Try me,one of these days, and we'll see.

You might like Wolf DeVoon.

That man and I have been in touch for at least a decade. He and I were contributors at J. Orlin Grabbe's place, back in the day.

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Billy,

I hadn't thought about the historical importance of "Magdalena" before.

Didn't Zappa hint at the theme in "Brown Shoes Don't Make It," featuring City Hall Fred and his "world of secret hunger":

We see

In the back

Of the City Hall mind

A dream

Of a girl

About thirteen...

Robert Campbell

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The government is off to a good start for that. Watch it eat itself alive.

Hey: it's ghaslty, what governments can live on, including themselves.

I dunno about "rational anarchist," but as long as you're rational I don't care about the other word.

Try me,one of these days, and we'll see.

You might like Wolf DeVoon.

That man and I have been in touch for at least a decade. He and I were contributors at J. Orlin Grabbe's place, back in the day.

Wolf started a thread here over a year ago, "Financial Mayhem," and we went back and forth until mid-May when he left the list. I know where he lives now, but out of consideration for his privacy please don't tell us all. However, I've no way to get in touch with him. If you do, please say hello for me next time you communicate.

I should have said "I'm not bothered about the other word," not "I don't care."

It's curious how somewhat similar his name is to Warren Zevon, a singer and song-writer I just discovered whom I like a lot.

--Brant

Edited by Brant Gaede
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You might like Wolf DeVoon.

That man and I have been in touch for at least a decade. He and I were contributors at J. Orlin Grabbe's place, back in the day.

Billy,

Wolf is a member here. I really like that guy. I believe he is presently on sabbatical...

When I finish getting my IM stuff structured, I will be selling well his fiction magnum opus. (I am late on this, but I needed to acquire the competence to do it right.)

I used to read J. Orlin Grabbe's site while I was still in Brazil (including the Laissez-Faire Times). That is where I first read stuff by Wolf. Both of them are crazy in a way I deeply empathize with.

:)

Michael

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I used to read J. Orlin Grabbe's site while I was still in Brazil (including the Laissez-Faire Times). That is where I first read stuff by Wolf. Both of them are crazy in a way I deeply empathize with.

Not any more. We lost Orlin in March of last year.

His article, "The End Of Ordinary Money" was the first thing I ever read that convinced me of the value of an internet account. And he was the first person who ever paid me for something that I wrote.

I'll never forget that guy.

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Billy,

I hadn't thought about the historical importance of "Magdalena" before.

Well, think about it and check me on this. Am I right?

That was a spontaneous observation that occurred to me the first time I heard it, many years afterward. (I was fairly late to Zappa's party. I didn't really start digging him until the late-70's.)

Didn't Zappa hint at the theme in "Brown Shoes Don't Make It," featuring City Hall Fred and his "world of secret hunger":

We see

In the back

Of the City Hall mind

A dream

Of a girl

About thirteen...

Yeah, I suppose that would qualify as a hint. I haven't listened to "Brown Shoes" in quite a while (it's not my favorite period), but I can see it.

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I just started reading "The End of Ordinary Money." A long and fascinating slog. When I enlisted in the army in 1964 the NSA tried to recruit me, but it meant a four instead of a three year enlistment. I enlisted for photography school and got recruited into Special Forces at Ft Ord during basic training. My brother enlisted into the Marines 18 months later. Formation: "We need three volunteers to go to photography school: you, you and you." (Contrived quotation, but they were volunteered. They did not volunteer. Most who were not volunteered got shot or shrapnelled up in Vietnam.) So my brother, the Marine, went to the army photography school in New Jersey--the one I enlisted for--and became a great photographer. The only reason he's not as good as Ansel Adams is he lacks Adams' legendary patience.

--Brant

Edited by Brant Gaede
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"Brown Shoes Don't Make It" is a very early entry in the field of rock (mini) opera. I think The Who were slightly out in front on this (their first was "A Quick One While He's Away") but I'm far from being a rock historian.

The Who stuck closer to rock in their efforts. "Brown Shoes" is a pastiche with a lot of elements, including 1920s pop music, fake Mozart, and Darmstädter serialism. The lyrics I quoted are sung in 12-tone. Since the passage is short, and it's really meant to sound creepy, I think the 12-toning works just fine.

Robert Campbell

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Not any more. We lost Orlin in March of last year.

Billy,

Boy, did you blow my high.

I haven't looked at his site in a long time (until today) because now I am a family man with young kids around. Orlin had a habit of putting up huge pictures of naked young women in between his links to quantum physics, economics, anti-government stuff, beautiful masterwork paintings, etc.

I even liked looking at the pictures, but they were really really big, so no way to hide it from inquiring young eyes. Context called and I had to move on to other stuff.

I am very sorry to hear he is no longer with us. I did not read his book on international finance, but I really wanted to. And someday I will. From what little I was able to learn about it, he dealt with topics I learned about in real life in Brazil.

EDIT: Wikipedia - James Orlin Grabbe

Michael

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Billy,

Boy, did you blow my high.

{nod} I can imagine. Hate it, but there it is.

I haven't looked at his site in a long time (until today) because now I am a family man with young kids around. Orlin had a habit of putting up huge pictures of naked young women in between his links to quantum physics, economics, anti-government stuff, beautiful masterwork paintings, etc.

I even liked looking at the pictures, but they were really really big, so no way to hide it from inquiring young eyes. Context called and I had to move on to other stuff.

Of course. I always thought, though, that he had a real eye for the right lines.

The guy was a real kook, in some ways. I don't know if you ever saw his "Angel of Death" series of posts, in which he had a bunch of black-operative renegades out of the U.S. intelligence corps running around delivering packets of incriminating information on various politicians and apparatchiks with the aim of driving them out of government. The thing is, it was all hooked to stolen banking software with a 'back door' in it to allow this sort of snooping, and there was a real-live mystery case about that with a lot of facts in it. One had to be careful with him.

I often wondered whether he got played on the inside by someone really heavy.

At the same time, he was amazing: the day that The Lying Bastard testified before the grand jury in the Lewinsky affair, Grabbe posted to the Whitewater group in Usenet that he had committed perjury. He did that before that grand jury session was out. Understand: he got that report out of the grand jury room itself. That was wild.

When the FBI files story broke, and the media were reporting "nine hundred files", Grabbe was on the Usenet scene within minutes telling us that the number was in fact over two thousand.

He had real live wires out there. I never saw anything like him.

I am very sorry to hear he is no longer with us.

Me, too. He was a net.original.

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  • 1 month later...

Frank Zappa, Billy Beck, Orlin Grabbe and Wolf DeVoon all in one thread. Did an asteroid hit the server? Guess I should send Linz a thank you note.

I trust we all remember why I left. This is the third or fourth time recently that I scanned OL to see how things are going. Hi, Brant. Buying SKF tomorrow at the open.

Thank you for mentioning Mars, Michael. You have the e-rights in perpetuity. It's a great sadness to me that so few people have read it. Occasionally while waiting for a train or a bus, I wander through bookstores and feel overwhelmed with sorrow for the world.

I don't begrudge anyone their happinesses and pleasant occupations. Along with everything else, Frank and Billy and Orlin and I fought for your freedom to be an individual, enjoy yourself, live and let live. Of necessity, that made us mad as hell, because we fought a rearguard action against Homer Simpson and Jimmy Swaggart. It was like fighting filthy cockroaches.

I had three unsuccessful encounters with Zappa. In the last few weeks of my innocence, I took a farewell journey East, saw the great blazing steel mills of Pittsburgh, the skyscrapers of New York, and Frank's 1974 concert at the Spectrum. Waiting outside at the tour bus I thanked George Duke and stopped Zappa to hector him eye to eye about his intellectual responsibility. Our relationship went downhill from there. The greatest living musical genius on earth didn't give a shit about Rand or anything else, except providing for his wife and children. A year earlier, the jealous boyfriend of a groupie threw Frank off a stage and broke his arm, a leg, two fingers and his nose. It changed his outlook. If you listen to the progress of his masterwork (HOT RATS, WAKA JAWAKA, THE GRAND WAZOO, OVERNIGHT SENSATION), there is a dark spiritual decline later in life after the incident in Copenhagen. It was risky business being a pop celebrity (viz, 200 MOTELS).

Orlin was a risk-taker, too. I'm not sure how he died. Best not to think of it. Orlin recruited me in person to join Laissez Faire City on exceptionally favorable terms. He published all my best work and defended my artistic freedom, even when it contradicted and mocked his own uberlibertarian principles. I believe he also saved my life, perhaps more than once. During our first encounter, I asked Orlin if he knew of anyone else in the world like me. He said yes: Billy Beck.

I regret that I haven't met Billy in person, but Orlin was at least half-right. The difference between me and Billy is that William J. Beck III has twice the energy and backbone I have. When I catch hell, I take it on the chin. Billy gives hell back with both barrels and then reloads. I know of no other more diligent, forthright, uncompromising Objectivist.

Some day when he's not too busy, he might have time to read Laissez Faire Law. His was the one review that mattered.

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